Tortoise attacked by rat (?)

HawaiiHermann

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20180309_090657.jpg My Hermann's Tortoise was attacked last night, probably by a rat. Deep bites to his front legs, and a bite on his face near the nose.

This is my first time seeing this exotic vet. Any treatments I should be wary of?

20180309_090657.jpg
 

Rhea

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Poor tort! New to tortoises so I don’t know the answer but I hope everything is ok. Little guys probably in pain. Best of luck.
 

Yvonne G

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Oh my. That is so sad. The poor tortoise is defenseless against that type of attack. Your vet will clean up the raw spots and give the tortoise an antibiotic. I see no reason why he would give the tortoise a vitamin a,d,e injection, but if that's what he wants to do, respectfully decline it. No Vitamin A injection!
 

wellington

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Poor thing. Keep it clean until healed. Of course try to change things so it can't happen again.
Good luck.
 

HawaiiHermann

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As Yvonne predicted, the vet cleaned the wounds and gave him an antibiotic injection, which we'll repeat every 3 days until healed. He's resting in a warm indoor hospital tank. Is there an ideal body temp for healing? I placed him near the lamp to warm up but want to make sure he doesn't overheat if he's not feeling well enough to move.

I can't believe a rat got in. (It's definitely a rat, the attack was caught on security camera.) His entire enclosure is covered in plastic chicken netting from 3 feet under the substrate and completely over the ceiling. Guess it's time for a locking night box and some fine mesh metal chicken wire when he's well enough to go back outside.
 

TammyJ

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So sorry this happened. Keep him inside away from the rats! And declare war on them!
 

Taylor T.

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Maybe put a few baited rat traps inside little plastic boxes with holes in them around the outside of his enclosure? That might get rid of any rats that are thinking about getting into the enclosure.

Really sad that this happened. Can he walk? For healing temperature, I would make it a little warmer than usual, but not by too much
 

HawaiiHermann

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Really sad that this happened. Can he walk? For healing temperature, I would make it a little warmer than usual, but not by too much

He can walk, though it's clear he's in pain. One limb seems more sore than the other. He also lost the end of his tail in the attack.

I feel so bad for him, and for failing him.

Rat control will be difficult because my house backs up against a forest reserve... I'm sure there's an endless supply of them back there.
 

HawaiiHermann

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At what point should I be concerned with hydration and not eating? It's been 2 days. I tried to give him a soak yesterday (with the vet's ok) but it was obviously causing him more stress and pain in his wounds than it was worth.

He has been pretty lethargic for the last 24 hours. Awake but not moving, resting in the cool side of the bin. Body temp about 72 degrees. Basking area is available at 95 degrees, and the CHE keeps the warm side at about 85-90 degrees overnight.

I have Pedialyte and Critical Care handy. Both are offered in the bin, along with some water-rich favorite foods, but he's not interested.
 

richosullivan

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At what point should I be concerned with hydration and not eating? It's been 2 days. I tried to give him a soak yesterday (with the vet's ok) but it was obviously causing him more stress and pain in his wounds than it was worth.

He has been pretty lethargic for the last 24 hours. Awake but not moving, resting in the cool side of the bin. Body temp about 72 degrees. Basking area is available at 95 degrees, and the CHE keeps the warm side at about 85-90 degrees overnight.

I have Pedialyte and Critical Care handy. Both are offered in the bin, along with some water-rich favorite foods, but he's not interested.

Just went through the same thing - it took just over a month before mine started eating again. We back up to a cemetery, so have rats and racoons - rat burrowed under boards that I sank 4 inches - have traps out now to keep others away from my outside enclosure, and am building a table to put inside for my recovering tort.
 

HawaiiHermann

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Just went through the same thing - it took just over a month before mine started eating again. We back up to a cemetery, so have rats and racoons - rat burrowed under boards that I sank 4 inches - have traps out now to keep others away from my outside enclosure, and am building a table to put inside for my recovering tort.

Thank you for sharing your experience! Makes me feel a bit better about my guy's progress. What kinds of traps do you have? Do you intend yo keep your recovering tortoise indoors long-term, or will he go back outside eventually?

My tortoise is much perkier today, moving around and basking under the lamp. The vet said he's making good progress -- the wounds are no longer raw. He lost 30 grams of weight in 3 days (on a base weight of about 700 grams), which worries me a bit but the vet is not concerned yet.
 

SteveW

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I too have a rat tale (sorry) of woe. My torts live in a detached room that houses just them and some storage. One night a rat chewed through a screen and instead of going for the 100 or so pounds of mazuri and dog food, killed a hatching pancake and gnawed on my Mee. I’ll spare you the details of the hand to rat combat that ensued, but things got Lord of the Flies pretty quickly. I have mixed feelings about my descent into darkness but do feel a little better knowing that Vera Rubin (the pancake) was avenged.
Best wishes for your Hermanns. I suspect that with antibiotics to stave off infection he’ll be on the mind.
 

LoutheRussian

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I just posted in another thread about a rat attack. I’m in the rodent control business and when it comes to keeping rats out of something you need to be sure you seal up every hole the size of your pinky or larger. Sealing the main entrance and exit may put a stop to things temporarily but they will find another way in if you don’t seal it all. We use 1/4” steel mesh (home depot) together with expanding foam which works well. Put the mesh in the hole and fill with expanding foam. If the rats do chew on it the wire mesh will stop them and the foam give you a good way of being able to tell if they are trying to get in again as little chunks will be all over the ground. Stay away from poisons because sick animals will often seek refuge in your walls and when they die in there they will smell horribly for up to a month. Also poison can cause secondary kill, if a dog or cat for example catch and eat a poisoned rat the dog or cat will often get sick and possibly die as well. The classic wooden Victor snap trap with peanut butter on it works best.
 

richosullivan

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Thank you for sharing your experience! Makes me feel a bit better about my guy's progress. What kinds of traps do you have? Do you intend yo keep your recovering tortoise indoors long-term, or will he go back outside eventually?

My tortoise is much perkier today, moving around and basking under the lamp. The vet said he's making good progress -- the wounds are no longer raw. He lost 30 grams of weight in 3 days (on a base weight of about 700 grams), which worries me a bit but the vet is not concerned yet.

I am building a "table" for my recovering tortoise, and he'll be in there for the foreseeable future. Depending on how he does there will determine if he ever makes it back outside long term. He seems top be doing better, but still not 100% sure he is going to make it, but doing everything we can to try as long as he still seems like he's fighting.
 

HawaiiHermann

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Another vet visit yesterday, where he got more antibiotics and some fluids. We've had some setbacks -- the wound cleanings (1x day) and ointment applications (2x day) seem to be massively stressing him out now. He (attempts to) run and climb frantically after his treatments, emitting some poop/pee in the process, obviously in a panic. Poor guy. Then he just hides and sleeps all day. Still no interest in food or drink.

Just trying to keep him feeling safe and secure as best as possible. He's got a cardboard box for a hide, and I've draped a towel 90% over the entrance -- he can still get in and out but that should keep it darker in there. Any other ideas for things I can do to make him feel better?
 

richosullivan

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Another vet visit yesterday, where he got more antibiotics and some fluids. We've had some setbacks -- the wound cleanings (1x day) and ointment applications (2x day) seem to be massively stressing him out now. He (attempts to) run and climb frantically after his treatments, emitting some poop/pee in the process, obviously in a panic. Poor guy. Then he just hides and sleeps all day. Still no interest in food or drink.

Just trying to keep him feeling safe and secure as best as possible. He's got a cardboard box for a hide, and I've draped a towel 90% over the entrance -- he can still get in and out but that should keep it darker in there. Any other ideas for things I can do to make him feel better?

We try to do a 30 minute soak before each treatment, then put him directly into his hide when we placed him back in his temp. enclosure to try and reduce the stress. Here are some photos/Xrays.

20180106_104210_resized2.jpg Timmie_X-Ray1.png Timmie_XRay_2.png
 

TammyJ

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We try to do a 30 minute soak before each treatment, then put him directly into his hide when we placed him back in his temp. enclosure to try and reduce the stress. Here are some photos/Xrays.

View attachment 233166 View attachment 233167 View attachment 233168
I think the soaks are very important even if he does not like them.
Mix some pedialyte into the warm water and you should use a plastic tub with a fitted top that has a few holes bored in it for air. The tortoise should fit into the tub with very little space for moving around and with the top coming within one inch of his carapace. He will have no choice but to stay in the soak and get the full benefit of it, and it will help to keep him from dehydrating.
 

HawaiiHermann

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We try to do a 30 minute soak before each treatment, then put him directly into his hide when we placed him back in his temp. enclosure to try and reduce the stress. Here are some photos/Xrays.

Aww, what a cute little guy! And what sad injuries. Poor guy. :( How long ago did it happen?

I'll ask the vet tomorrow about soaking -- he seemed to have some concerns about soaking while the wounds were healing, and I'm concerned about the balance between the healing benefits of being well-hydrated and the immune suppression of being under massive stress. He did receive 6 ml of fluid during Wednesday's visit and his eyes aren't looking so sunken now.

Pic in my "operating room" (a can of beans in a baking dish) this morning before wound cleaning:

20180316_165044.jpg
 

richosullivan

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Aww, what a cute little guy! And what sad injuries. Poor guy. :( How long ago did it happen?

I'll ask the vet tomorrow about soaking -- he seemed to have some concerns about soaking while the wounds were healing, and I'm concerned about the balance between the healing benefits of being well-hydrated and the immune suppression of being under massive stress. He did receive 6 ml of fluid during Wednesday's visit and his eyes aren't looking so sunken now.

Pic in my "operating room" (a can of beans in a baking dish) this morning before wound cleaning:

View attachment 233239

It happened back in January on the 3rd. My wife is a Vet, but she insisted we take him to a Vet that she knows that specializes in wildlife/exotics, and he said the soaks are essential, especially with taking medication/antibiotics to ensure he is hydrated - don't want to create kidney or liver issues - would be worth asking.
 

HawaiiHermann

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It happened back in January on the 3rd. My wife is a Vet, but she insisted we take him to a Vet that she knows that specializes in wildlife/exotics, and he said the soaks are essential, especially with taking medication/antibiotics to ensure he is hydrated - don't want to create kidney or liver issues - would be worth asking.

Thanks! The vet was very busy and only had time to give the tortoise the next antibiotic shot and some fluids. I gave him a soak afterwards (mostly water with some pedialyte) and it went very well. No more panic, and he drank deeply. I'll continue with 2 x daily soaks. Wish I'd tried it again sooner!

Did you give electrolytes or baby food in your soaks, or just water? Not sure of the trade off between getting some calories in him (still not eating) vs. the risk of getting food and stuff in his wounds.
 

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