tortoise not growing

[kcanales1]

Hi, sorry I'm new with this app.
I just have a question about my baby leopard tortoise.
The problem is that I don't see that is growing since I got it.
Which is like 8 months ago.
I weigh her/him and it only weights 20g.
And the man told me that they were 2 months old already.
The baby eats and all that but is not growing.
Please help me figure out what is wrong with my leopard tortoise!

 

[Yvonne G]

It takes a whole lot more than food to make a baby tortoise grow. Humidity, exercise, UVB, the correct heat/temperature, food...they all play a big part.

Take a picture of your tortoise's habitat and give us a bit of info about your equipment and diet, and maybe we'll see something that needs addressing.

 

[kcanales1]

Right now he/she doesn't go outside because is really cold outside. But in the summer he/she spends most of the time outside taking the sun and eating grass and weeds.
Sometimes I go out side and cut weeds for him. I give him wet food but he doesn't really like it. And also, sometimes I give him romaine lettuce.

 

[kcanales1]

 

[lismar79]

First, change your bedding. The kind you have is hard for them to walk on and doesn't hold humidity well. Try coco coir or repti bark. I can't tell if you have a water dish, they need that.

 

[kcanales1]

I soak him everyday.
And sometimes I put a little dish of water since they told me that he didn't need a dish of water if I soak him everyday.
And I have a bag of repti bark so I'll change the other one to this one.
I have him on that one because he also told me to not use wood since the tortoise it was a little baby. But I'll change it to the repti bark.

 

[kcanales1]

Do you know for how long do I have to soak him?

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

I see a few potential problems. I'll just point out what I see.
1. The open top is allowing all your heat and humidity out.
2. Those stick-on dial type thermometer/hygrometers are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable. There is not way your humidity is at 60% with dry substrate, a heat lamp and an open top.
3. Dry substrate is not good for baby leopards.
4. What are you using for heating and lighting? UV?
5. What are your four temperatures? Warm side, cool side, basking area and overnight low?
6. What are you feeding?
7. How was your baby started? Wet or dry routine?

Here is how to house, heat and raise them:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[Yvonne G]

Well, the good news is you've found us early enough to be able to make good changes to your tortoise-keeping and these changes will certainly help your baby to grow healthy and happy.

Your aquarium is a good size for this size tortoise. I'll tell you what I'd do if this were my baby.

I'd try to find someplace that sells orchid bark. I like the fine-grade as it is small pieces and easy to walk on. You can keep orchid bark moist and it doesn't sour or spoil, and baby leopard tortoises need moist/humid conditions.

Spread about 3 or 4" across the bottom of the habitat then pour a pitcher full of water over it and mix it up with your hand. Then smooth it out and pat it down with the palm of your hand.

Try to figure out a way to cover the top of your aquarium. You can use wood or plastic or whatever works, but you have to have holes in it for the lights/heat fixtures to shine through. In this example, they used the lid for the tub, cut out holes, and lined the holes with foil:

By covering the top of the aquarium you're keeping the cold air from the house out and the warm, moist air inside.

The round, stick-on type of gauges rarely work well. It would be better for you to buy one of these:

You can buy them at Amazon.com fairly cheap.

I like to use plant saucers for waterers. The tortoise can climb in and out easy and there's less danger of him getting overbalanced and falling back in on his back.

I feed my babies on a rough piece of cement. This helps to keep the beak filed down.

I like your hiding place. The sides are steep so he can't climb up on top and fall off.

You can buy a few little plants, either real or fake, and place them all around the enclosure for added hiding places and to give it a more real feel and appearance.

Baby tortoises in Africa hatch out during the monsoon season. They have plenty of new growth grasses and weeds to eat and lots of puddles to drink out of, plus the earth is wet, helping them to grow smoothly.

I think if you make these few changes you'll see a dramatic improvement in your baby's growth.

 

[Yvonne G]

Oh, lights...I forgot to fill you in on the lighting.

There are two kinds of UVB for you to consider. The first is the Mercury Vapor Bulb:

This bulb provides heat and the necessary, beneficial UVB all in one bulb. You MUST mount this bulb in a ceramic-based fixture. I prefer the large 10 or 12" dome like this:

These are expensive, but your baby needs the UVB to make his calcium work. Without it his shell and bones grow soft and he dies.

Or, there's the tube type fluorescent light. This one provides the necessary UVB also, but it is cool and doesn't provide heat, so if you go this way you will also need a heat source:

And you mount this in a chrome reflector:

Whatever you do, DO NOT BUY the compact fluorescent UVB bulbs like this:



or this:



These are known to damage baby tortoises eyes. Besides that, they provide very little UVB.

For night time heat without light, or if you choose to use the tube type fluorescent bulb and need a heat source, this is what you use:

This is called a ceramic heat emitter, or CHE.

I know this is a lot to take in. I only wish we could have caught you prior to your original setting up. But all this will certainly help your baby. And once you get it right, all there is left to do is sit back and enjoy your baby.

 

[kcanales1]

I don have the top. I took it off yesterday so I could take a pic.
And that's the only light I'm using.


Can I use this one and soak it with water?

 

[kcanales1]

Do*

 

[Tom]

You need:
1. A ceramic heating element set on a thermostat to maintain ambient temps around 80 day and night.
2. A different basking bulb. Spot bulbs are not good because they concentrate too much desiccating heat in one small area. Use a flood bulb or a mercury vapor bulb.
3. The bark substrate you have there is perfect, but you will need more. Its much cheaper to buy it at a garden center and you get a lot more. You need at least 3-4 inches of it.
4. Some sort of cover for the top. I can be plexi-glas, glass, plywood, a plastic bag and a towel, tinfoil, etc… Something to stop your heat and humidity from escaping out the top.

Read those care sheets I linked for you. Its all explained in there.

 

[kcanales1]

So this top is not good?
And can I find that type of light in pet smart or petco?

 

[Yvonne G]

Your spot doesn't provide UVB. Without UVB the tortoise can't make vitamin d3 and then he eats his calcium-rich foods but they just get pooped and peed out because without the UVB the body can't use the calcium. No calcium means the baby tortoise soon grows soft and eventually dies.

So, no, that bulb isn't what you need.

I buy my bulbs off amazon smile. they are delivered within a couple days.

If you rest your new UVB light on that screen top, the screen filters out a lot of the UVB rays, so you'll need to cut a hole for the light to shine unimpeded by the screen.

 

[kcanales1]

So I need 3 lights.
The ceramic, uvb and the power sun?
I already soak the little pieces of wood. And put a little container of water.
And he is just walking around smelling everything.

Now I'll have to buy the lights.

 

[kcanales1]

Which of the 3 lights he needs more right now?
Because I'm kind of broke right now since I already started college and I had it to buy books and all that.

 

[Yvonne G]

So I need 3 lights.
The ceramic, uvb and the power sun?
I already soak the little pieces of wood. And put a little container of water.
And he is just walking around smelling everything.

Now I'll have to buy the lights.

No, the Power sun is heat and UVB all in one bulb.

You need EITHER the tube type fluorescent bulb OR the Mercury Vapor bulb - that's one OR the other, not both, AND the CHE. So, two.

 

[Tom]

So I need 3 lights.
The ceramic, uvb and the power sun?

This will explain the lighting thing a little better. I typed this up for another member a little while ago:

"Let me break down the heating and lighting thing. You need three or four elements:
1. Heat. During the day this is best accomplished with 65 watt flood bulbs from the hardware store set on digital timers. These also give some light. Move them higher or lower to get the basking temp under them correct. I buy them in 6 packs, so if they burn out I always have a spare on hand.
2. Light. Sometimes the basking bulb and ambient room light are enough. If not, use a tube style florescent strip light form the hardware store. Run it on the same timer as the heat lamps. Try to get a bulb in the 5000-6500K color range. The more common 2500K color range bulbs look yellowish.
3. Ambient temp maintenance and night heat. Tortoises need it dark at night, but still warm. This is best accomplished with the use of a CHE (Ceramic Heating Element) in a ceramic based fixture. Get the 11" ceramic based domes from Home Depot for all your heat lamps. Run this through a thermostat and it will hold your ambient where you want it. You want it around 80.
4. UV. Best to sun them for an hour two or more times a week. Its okay to skip a few weeks over winter and this will do no harm. Since you live in the frozen North (Okay, Midwest, but its a figure of speech…), you will need to provide some artificial UV. Several options for this:
a. Use a mercury vapor bulb, like the power sun for your basking bulb. Use this in the Home Depot fixture I mentioned, not in a small pet store dome or deep dome. Replace it every fall.
b. Use a long tube type 10.0 florescent bulb. These MUST be mounted no more than 10-12" from the tortoise to be effective.
c. Get an Arcadia 12% HO bulb from lightyourreptiles.com. These are great, but they make a lot of UV. Mount it at least 18" and as much as 26" away from the tortoise and put it on its own timer for only about 4 hours a day."

 

[Lyn W]

Hi and welcome - it's a lot to take in and a lot to spend at first but just think of it as an investment in your tort's health. If you get the temps, humidity and diet right it will save you a fortune in vets bills, but more importantly your tort will be happier and will start to thrive.

Yvonne and Tom are two of the most experienced and knowledgeable keepers on the forum, they have given you great options. If you follow their advice you will soon see a big difference in your tort.

I use a mercury vapour bulb (MVB) because it is very easy, giving heat, light and uvb in one bulb, and at night I use a CHE on a thermostat which turns it on and off as needed.
Keep reading and asking questions!