Tortoises from the Seychelles

[TortyDxb]

~ As far as hatchlings, we keep them outside in controlled/covered pens similar to @Sesel does. We do not allow our new hatchlings (under 3" or under 30 days old) to go below 70f. If the night time temperatures go below 70f, we bring them inside, where they are maintained at 72f for the night and put back outside in the morning.
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It's such a joy having your input @ALDABRAMAN thank you. When you talk about exercise, do you mean massive areas for a hatchling/yearling to access? what sort of areas do your tortoises get to be in, during the day?

I am asking because I can see that the lack of exercise caused by a 24 hour existence in a metre long tank has to have some impact, but what about say a 400 ft2 yard? or a half acre field. What sort of area is acceptable do you feel for these giants, years 0-2?

I suspect your response will be the bigger the better, but for monitoring purposes and their own safety do you have an enclosure for their first year that is not crazy big for them? I've been keeping them in around 300 ft2 patio/fenced off type set up just to monitor them and keep them contained. Many would have this sort of space in colder climates too.

We do need to pick your brain (what an awful expression) because there are people hoping to bring up healthy Aldabras in colder climates like the UK, and we need to find ways for them to achieve similar results to yours. Those photos are PERFECTION

 

[TortyDxb]

~ I have been working with tortoises in general, however my passion and focus has been mainly with the aldabra species for over thirty years. What has proven to be the most simple and optimal way to produce the healthiest and best shell growth is to feed them a natural diet (no commercial foods or supplements, fruit, etc. for the first year of growth), good hydration, ample space for high exercise levels and plenty of natural sunshine with many shade options. Anything less is simply going to compromise the process.
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I feel so responsible about my input at this stage of the two aldabras in my care, I'm almost not enjoying it, I wish I'd been looking after this guy and I can't even see his face , looks like a perfect bowling ball with legs I'll take two! you could have the confidence to name a hatchling 'smoothie' and not have to edit the name later... the proof is in those photos, really.

 

[Tom]

There is such consistency in your photos between each tortoise, it has to be the right way. Just has to be. Then looking at sesel's photos and realising he is achieving similar results, in pretty much the same enclosure, substrate (natural) layout and without the emphasis on wetness.

Do not forget to take into account the differences in environments from one keeper to another. The climate is South Florida is VERY different than the climate in the California desert. What someone does in a particular area with one species, might not work for someone else in an entirely different climate with the same species, or with a different species.

When aldabras are raised the way Aldabraman raises them at his home in FL here in CA, they end up horribly pyramided, and often stunted. They don't tend to do very well here. Where it rains in FL several times a week most of the year, and it is very humid year round, we can go 11 months with no rain at all and single digit humidity for much of that time.

I'd also like to clarify, that my tortoises aren't wet all the time. They are soaked daily, and I spray them with water several times a day, but they are dry the majority of the time. I keep their enclosures at a humidity level similar to the great outdoors in FL, but the upper layers of their substrate remain relatively dry.

So when deciding what will work best for you, and when looking at examples of what different people are able to produce, consider the climate. What is the climate like where you are? How often does it rain and how much? What are your humidity levels throughout the course of a year there, and how does that compare to the tropical islands that your tortoise species comes from? How do your humidity levels compare to mine or to Aldabraman's?

 

[Sesel]

Can you tell me a little bit about where they sleep, is it in a damp or wet area? I'm going crazy trying to prevent this pyramiding issue (which has already begun).

For now, we bring them in every evening and just put them in some open containers for sleeping. We are worried about predators (rats, dogs etc) since they are still quite young.
We were using soil (very dry) as a substrate until recently when we switched to the rotten bits of the inside of a cut down coconut tree trunk (makes sense? Lol). It stays a bit more damp. We've also tried without substrate in the past. We are still at the trial & error stage for most things

I'm with @ALDABRAMAN on not overfeeding and exercise, but then @Tom has extensive and comprehensive examples of humidity and an overall wet existence being key. In fact in some cases, he seems to prove diet is insignificant if a very wet environment is maintained.

What a confusion

I think balance is important

 

[TortyDxb]

Do not forget to take into account the differences in environments from one keeper to another. The climate is South Florida is VERY different than the climate in the California desert. What someone does in a particular area with one species, might not work for someone else in an entirely different climate with the same species, or with a different species.

When aldabras are raised the way Aldabraman raises them at his home in FL here in CA, they end up horribly pyramided, and often stunted. They don't tend to do very well here. Where it rains in FL several times a week most of the year, and it is very humid year round, we can go 11 months with no rain at all and single digit humidity for much of that time.

I'd also like to clarify, that my tortoises aren't wet all the time. They are soaked daily, and I spray them with water several times a day, but they are dry the majority of the time. I keep their enclosures at a humidity level similar to the great outdoors in FL, but the upper layers of their substrate remain relatively dry.

So when deciding what will work best for you, and when looking at examples of what different people are able to produce, consider the climate. What is the climate like where you are? How often does it rain and how much? What are your humidity levels throughout the course of a year there, and how does that compare to the tropical islands that your tortoise species comes from? How do your humidity levels compare to mine or to Aldabraman's?

Yes, you are absolutely right. We can start from the premise that whatever @ALDABRAMAN is doing is working extremely well (proven in both form and in succesful breeding), and then look at our own individual circumstances and try to emulate. This will mean plenty of discussion on what alternatives are needed when you cannot match the 'natural' criteria that are producing perfect specimen.

If exercise is a key variable, how much exercise is that? Do you need to build a maze to try to cover the same distances because you have a smaller place? All the sorts of discussions that go on here in fact. Yes, I concur. @Tom you have clearly lead the charge on alternative ways to achieve the same results, and it makes for excellent reading- thanks.

 

[Sesel]

Spoiler: Young inexperienced 24 year old male: 34in/86cm. Didn't quite get it right

Spoiler: 24 year old male with a bit more experience shows how it's done, 39in/99cm

 

[Jemo]

in my opinion and experience i think to avoid pyramiding it is easy: you only must Keep all babies and Youngsters of Tropical species in a very high air humidity, especially in the very early stage of growth. (of course with propper feeding as discussed above)
Here in the Terrarium we do it easyly with any Kind of fogging around day and nighttime with not to wet soil! Also many humid moss they will hide and sleep in.

attached a Picture of redfood we Keep like this and they grow absolutly smooth!

 

[Sesel]

~ Yes, we are always checking the sand in our barns to compare with the overall ambient temperatures we maintain at night. Good point!

Ground temperature in the outdoor enclosure this morning @6am:

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Ground temperature in the outdoor enclosure this morning @6am:

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~ That is awesome!

 

[Sesel]

I must add that i have never seen a double nuchal scute before on an aldabra tortoise. You have a special unique one there!

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[Sesel]

Does anybody know what causes these 'cracks' in a tortoise's shell and what is the best course of action?

 

[Sesel]

...it was from the first clutch of the year laid on 26.04.2017. At the time , it was kind of experimenting which would be best; leaving the eggs in the soil or removing and incubating in a dark room. So, out of 19 we removed 5 and kept the rest in the soil. Long after the eggs should have hatched (180 days), we dug up those kept in the soil.

A little bit of an update from post #27. One of the eggs has pipped after 270 days. That's about 9 months.

@ALDABRAMAN any similar experience with what i believe is a super long incubation period?

 

[Alaskamike]

You’ve asked some very good questions. As far as the crack in shell , we’ve had a few others experience this on the forum & I don’t think anyone has yet had a good explanation for it. It’s hard to tell if the crack is just surface or goes deeper. I really don’t know how I might handle this. Certainly try & keep dirt out of it.

As far as the issue of exercise, I made a good sized area fenced off where I can put mine out to graze. Rather than placing a pile of food in front of her , I spread it around so she has to walk & search for it. Seems to work well. I know that one keeper here built up mounds for his torts to walk up & down on rather than all flat ground. Another let’s his swim in his pool (?) But to me poop & pee would be a problem.

Sometimes we make it too easy for them.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

A little bit of an update from post #27. One of the eggs has pipped after 270 days. That's about 9 months.
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@ALDABRAMAN any similar experience with what i believe is a super long incubation period?

~ Never that long. I think the longest we have had was just over 130 days, which is rare for us, usually ours all pip between 100 and 110 days .

 

[Sesel]

 

[TortyDxb]

Haha love that Sesel!

It's like a big magnified version (very big) of what goes on over this way , not much grace and elegance...

 

[Sesel]

 

[Sesel]

 

[Sesel]

@ALDABRAMAN or anybody else, when 'candling' the eggs, where do you usually see the 'air pocket'? Top, side, bottom?





Does it matter which position it is or not?
Thanks~

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

@ALDABRAMAN when 'candling' the eggs, where do you usually see the 'air pocket'? Top, side, bottom?

~ Normally we see it on top or sorta on the side.