Tried to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

[TaraDodrill]

Made the mistake of looking at Pet Classifieds. Wanted to see if there were any Sulcatas in need of a forever home in my area. Since we have the space, awesome habitat finally completely finished both indoors and out. My attempt to help a couple selling " at least two" of their Sulcatas because they just don't have enough room for them to " roam in their house" was sooo not well received.

I should know better than to browse such places, the photos of some of these Sulcatas break my heart. But, I figure since we have a long-range plan and funds in place, I should help torts in my region if possible.

The ads that talk about how healthy their torts are when you ate looking at the sadly miskept reptiles is both heartwrenching and infuriating.
Below is what I wrote when inquiring about the juvenile Sulcatas ages 3-5

Message: I am really interested in giving two of your Sulcatas new homes but when I enlarged the thumbnail i noticed they have serious pyramiding for being so young. Can you share your husbandry practices and tort diet details please? What are their enclosure humidity and heat levels? I'm sure you tried your best, but need to be better educated about Sulcata care to help the Sulcatas you are keeping. If you join the Tortoise Forum you can very easily find details about habitat and diet needs from a very caring and helpful group of Sulcata lovers.

I really wanted to type something like " what the hell have you done to these poor torts" but did not. I dont think what I typed was nasty sounding but, here is the response I received

wow who do you think you are? i take amazing care of them and feed them everything that they need. including vitamins. and for your information my husbands mother used to raise them. do not contact me again.

Searching for the ad so you guys can see the torts. Shame the woman is so sensitive, she lives only an hour away and the torts could have been enjoying their new home by tomorrow evening. ;(

 

[Laura]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

post the ad here so we can see how bad it is..

 

[dmarcus]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

Its unfortunate but some people think they are suppose to look bumby and nothing you say will change there minds. It sucks for the animal but some people are stuck in there ways and really get offended if you tell them they are doing something wrong.

 

[TaraDodrill]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

Just opened up my Explorer tab again and the ad is now gone. I don't know if I can still get to it from the link which was attached to the email or not since the ad is gone. Link to the other tort I saw just beneath it, also claiming the Sulcata is in "good health". The group of juveniles did nit have the flattened shell but the pyramiding is comparable. It was very easily visible and just as easily preventable, makes me sad.
http://www.pet-classifieds.com/pet13089315.htm

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Dmarcus, I agree. So odd not to want to learn more about something which effects the life of another living thing you claim to care for so deeply.

 

[wellington]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

I have done the same and got pretty much the same response. I figured out you really can't say in any way that they have done something wrong. If you really want to get them, have someone close to you contact the sellers for you. I do still contact a lot of people on craigslist when I see things with their torts that aren't right. I just tell them, basically, that your tort has some pyramiding and new ways have been found to raise them smooth. Check out TFO, you don't have to join, but there is great new stuff to learn and to pass on to the new owners of your torts. I don't know if they listen or not, they don't respond back at all. I feel better that I did something, whether they do it or not, that's on them. Good luck

 

[Jacob]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

Some people are stubborn, especially a random person disagreeing with their techniques.

 

[TaraDodrill]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

Wellington, I think I will copy your standard response and use it when I come across more unfortunate torts.
I thought I was nice, before and after I got my Sulcatas I was eager to learn as much as I could to care for them properly.

Guess the woman's temper was still raging, she just sent me another email- very classy one too lol

If you don't like my torts then move on. Its people like you in this world who think you know everything there is to know about everything and can't seem to keep your big *** mouths shut. Its really disgusting. Go bother some of the other tort owners on the site. And you should probably learn to keep your mouth shut.

 

[dmmj]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

Think about it from their side,a stranger contacts them and says they are raising them wrong, I can understand their anger, though I don't agree they are raising them right,.

 

[wellington]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

Wellington, I think I will copy your standard response and use it when I come across more unfortunate torts.
I thought I was nice, before and after I got my Sulcatas I was eager to learn as much as I could to care for them properly.

Guess the woman's temper was still raging, she just sent me another email- very classy one too lol

If you don't like my torts then move on. Its people like you in this world who think you know everything there is to know about everything and can't seem to keep your big *** mouths shut. Its really disgusting. Go bother some of the other tort owners on the site. And you should probably learn to keep your mouth shut.

WOW, you really made her day. Her ignorance is a very sad thing. People who think they have nothing more to learn have a very sad and boring life. Feel good that you tried. I also agree, you were nice in your email, however, like I said, no one wants to be told they have been doing wrong by their pets. It's a shame she couldn't have taken it differently. The best we can hope for her, is that she will at least take a look around on TFO and figure it out for herself that you were right and just trying to help her and her torts. Feel good about yourself that you tried and don't let one persons ignorance get you down.

 

[Tom]

RE: Teied to Help a Person Selling Pyramding Sulcatas-

Think about it from their side,a stranger contacts them and says they are raising them wrong, I can understand their anger, though I don't agree they are raising them right,.

I considered this for a moment...

I sometimes place ads offering tortoises for sale. If someone contacted me and said what Tara said to those people, or something close to it, I would simply consider it for a moment and either disregard the info if it was just totally out there, or I would engage the person in further discussion and either try to learn something new, or teach THEM something new. I would not react with anger and venom.

The picture of the tortoise in that ad is among the worst I have seen. Not THE worst, but probably top ten.

 

[mary t]

I agree w all of you, but we can't all teach old dogs new tricks- there are people out there that think it's ok to tie a dog to a pole and throw food at it.. Not everyone is a pet lover.. My family believes all our animals are part of the family but I'm also a person who looks to learn things from others about whatever I'm caring for ( just ask uncle Tom, ... ) believe me besides my two dogs and my tort, my habitat of hermit crabs are the luckiest suckers that beach shack ever sold (4 years ago). My kids think I'm crazy because I will not take anything in without researching it fully first.. My momma taught me well. All we can do as a group is hopefully educate just one more person and the tort world will be better off for it. I also agree, use a friend to recontact this lady and save those guys.. Pyramiding can be slightly corrected over time... Good luck and be proud of yourself!

 

[Laura]

wonder how old its suppose to be... its not healthy.. Severe MBD and looks thin.. $300? no way... Id take it for free and hope it doesnt die!

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wow.. I just cruised the sale ads... I never new I had such a gold mine out in my yard... $2000 for a lrg male sulcata? it didnt say ivory... I guess I better build higher walls and get good locks!!!

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

My personal experience with these kind of situations (mostly cruising Craigslist) is that most people are unwilling to change their ways. If it had been me in your case, I probbaly would have offered (maybe?) $100 to take the tortoise off their hands, and politely explain that I would not be willing to pay more because of the pyramiding issue. If they declined my offer, I would have politely wished them luck trying to get that much money for a tortoise in that condition, and left it at that. Regrettably, we can't save them all.

 

[yagyujubei]

What's the point in criticizing someone's previous care who is selling the tortoise? I don't get it. If you were looking for a car, and saw a rusted out heap, would you advise the seller that he really should've been washing it, changing oil etc? They could very well have been following one of the care sheets they found on the internet, or one supplied by the pet shop they bought it at originally. People simply aren't interested in the unsolicited negative opinions of strangers. If the seller is responsible for the tortoises condition, they are already doing the right thing by trying to find a new owner. I just don't get the point.

 

[Tom]

The point is that they are selling two, but keeping some others. Also, they have obviously been given, and are practicing, very bad advice about how to care for them. They are going to pass that horrible care routine on to the new owners and likely anyone else that will listen. Their friends and neighbors probably see them as "experts" because they have had a whole bunch of tortoises for years.

... and, cars don't "suffer" from diseases inflicted by stupid humans. If someone wrecks a car due to bad maintenance, well you have a ruined car. If someone wrecks a tortoise, you have an animal that suffers and has to endure pain and discomfort that it shouldn't. In my opinion, it is worth the effort to try, even it the effort is futile or will be received badly. I would feel good about myself, just for trying. As someone else said, if they ignore the advice or react badly, that is on them. I will have done the right thing at that point.

 

[Yvonne G]

It makes a whole lot of difference in how you approach the person. If you go in with, "...you are doing everything WRONG..." naturally you are going to put this person's back up. He'll think, "the nerve of that person. I've been raising babies for x number of years and having lots of success. What a jerk!"

But if you go in with your hat in your hand and downcast eyes, saying something like, "...there have been many changes and improvements in tortoise care recently. Being such an active breeder its obvious you care very much about your animals. I thought you might be interested in learning what has been going on in the world of tortoises lately." blah, blah.

In other words, don't make accusations, but offer help.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

It makes a whole lot of difference in how you approach the person. If you go in with, "...you are doing everything WRONG..." naturally you are going to put this person's back up. He'll think, "the nerve of that person. I've been raising babies for x number of years and having lots of success. What a jerk!"

But if you go in with your hat in your hand and downcast eyes, saying something like, "...there have been many changes and improvements in tortoise care recently. Being such an active breeder its obvious you care very much about your animals. I thought you might be interested in learning what has been going on in the world of tortoises lately." blah, blah.

In other words, don't make accusations, but offer help.

That is true. And if you do point them in the direction of TFO, explain how well the site has helped YOU keep your own tortoises and how much you've learned and stuff you didn't realize you were doing wrong, etc etc.

 

[Jacqui]

It makes a whole lot of difference in how you approach the person. If you go in with, "...you are doing everything WRONG..." naturally you are going to put this person's back up. He'll think, "the nerve of that person. I've been raising babies for x number of years and having lots of success. What a jerk!"

But if you go in with your hat in your hand and downcast eyes, saying something like, "...there have been many changes and improvements in tortoise care recently. Being such an active breeder its obvious you care very much about your animals. I thought you might be interested in learning what has been going on in the world of tortoises lately." blah, blah.

In other words, don't make accusations, but offer help.

That is true. And if you do point them in the direction of TFO, explain how well the site has helped YOU keep your own tortoises and how much you've learned and stuff you didn't realize you were doing wrong, etc etc.

I am going to agree with both of these posters' comments. It's all about how you approach the subject. I also think you should have started a freindly dialog and slowly worked your way into the information giving. But hey, you tried, that is in the end the important part. Also the person in the ad may be ticked currently, but sending a second message to you shows she is still thinking about it. You may have actually reached her or may cause her to check things out further (when she is more calmed down)

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Who knows? You could have been the fifth person that day trying to give her advice.

 

[wellington]

The point is that they are selling two, but keeping some others. Also, they have obviously been given, and are practicing, very bad advice about how to care for them. They are going to pass that horrible care routine on to the new owners and likely anyone else that will listen. Their friends and neighbors probably see them as "experts" because they have had a whole bunch of tortoises for years.

... and, cars don't "suffer" from diseases inflicted by stupid humans. If someone wrecks a car due to bad maintenance, well you have a ruined car. If someone wrecks a tortoise, you have an animal that suffers and has to endure pain and discomfort that it shouldn't. In my opinion, it is worth the effort to try, even it the effort is futile or will be received badly. I would feel good about myself, just for trying. As someone else said, if they ignore the advice or react badly, that is on them. I will have done the right thing at that point.

DITTO