Turtle Round Up- Freaking Out & Poor Math Skills

[AJK Aquaria]

Hey all...

So today was the day to round up the outdoor boxies, and set them up in their dedicated fridge for the next 5 months or so. The weather has been quite warm here, and reading some of the other posts, it seems like the same over much of the US. But this weekend the temps are dropping like a rock. 70 degrees 2 days ago, but 30s today.

This morning I started pulling them, counting and checking as I moved them in small groups to the fridge. After about 20 minutes, I was looking for the last 4. 2 males; 2 females. An hour later I was still looking and started thinking about what could have happened to them. Theft? Predation? Dug in deep? I can generally find all of them with little effort. I just saw all the ones in question within the last 2 weeks. The bulk of them were in a hollowed out log packed with leaves and forest litter. The whole enclosure was loaded with sycamore and maple leaves. I raked out most of the space. Triple and quadruple checked everywhere. Removed all logs. Dug down into the loose, sandy soil areas provided for egg laying. Nothing. I was freaking out.

The only place I had not checked was the pond. But why would I check there? I started pulling leaves from the water. I needed to do this anyways. Algae was removed as well. The water level was down, as it had not rained in awhile. It was also quite muddied up from me digging around. And it was freezing cold. My hands started stinging. At first I thought I was seeing things. Could that really be a turtle shell I saw down there? I reached down and pulled up a male box turtle. What the hell? Cold, heavy and after a minute was peeking out of his shell. I was shocked. I'm aware that many aquatic species spend all of winter underwater, and some species can be seen moving around under the ice. But a box turtle? I started digging both arms in the pond, frantically looking for more. Boom. Another one. This time a female. Other than being a bit groggy, perfect in every way. Into the fridge they went. I busted out my submersible pump and started draining the pond, hoping to find the last 2 turtles. Found nothing.

2 hours after I started, I was still missing 2. Including the animal I've had for 12 years or so. I had gone over every inch. But then i noticed a slight disturbance to some soil next to a planted Japanese Maple. I started digging. Sure enough there was a male. My LTC, Shelley. What a relief. Into the fridge he goes.

Still missing 1... Must be dug in. Checked on the bins and the turtles to do another head count. Of course, my math was off. Found the big gal I had been looking for almost 2.5 hours. Felt like such an idiot. I was up late the night before, but I wasn't out or drinking. Just playing Battlefield 1. Next time I'll make a list... Always make a list.

If any of you have experienced box turtles 'hibernating' underwater please chime in. Found it quite amazing.

Thanks for reading
Adam

 

[ColleenT]

crazy. i am trusting my 4 to hibernate safely this winter and i am scared. but i want them to do what comes naturally.

 

[AJK Aquaria]

Col- the animal I've had for 12 years was found wandering around a parking lot. Someone released it. Obviously a wild caught animal sold into the pet trade. No idea how old he is, or when he last had the chance to hibernate as I've always kept him inside during the cold season. Here he is all dug in. Doing what comes natural to him. I'm sure yours will do the same...

20161119_093218[/url] by Adam James K, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[mark1]

I've seen quite a few torpid underwater when it was really cold , the water they were in freezes solid so I never left them in it , i'd take them out and stick them down in the leaf pile , the easterns always stay......... I have quite a few turtles that do hibernate underwater , they do appear to be doing the same thing , i'm pretty sure eastern box turtles can as long as the water doesn't freeze solid .... I have one gulf coast , if I take her out the water and put her in the leaf pile she'll be back in the water next time I check , so I bring her in for the winter . both J.H. Harding and A. Cahn both apparently have witnessed them hibernating in creeks and ponds

 

[Yvonne G]

That's wild! Who would have thought? My guess was going to be that they were too cold to be able to get out, but Mark's tale affirms they do do this. No wonder so many of them die during hibernation.

 

[Yvonne G]

I forgot to mention how much I enjoyed your story. Manys the time I swore someone has stolen an animal only to have it turn up somewhere in their yard at a later time.

 

[tortoise5643]

I don't have box turtles anymore, but when I used to, I had an Eastern that I would occasionally find chilling in water in late fall or early spring when it was in the low 40's out. That's not hibernating, obviously, but it was still surprising to me that he could stand it and be barely affected.

 

[AJK Aquaria]

I've seen quite a few torpid underwater when it was really cold , the water they were in freezes solid so I never left them in it , i'd take them out and stick them down in the leaf pile , the easterns always stay......... I have quite a few turtles that do hibernate underwater , they do appear to be doing the same thing , i'm pretty sure eastern box turtles can as long as the water doesn't freeze solid .... I have one gulf coast , if I take her out the water and put her in the leaf pile she'll be back in the water next time I check , so I bring her in for the winter . both J.H. Harding and A. Cahn both apparently have witnessed them hibernating in creeks and ponds

Interesting stuff. Thanks. I'm really glad I found them. Thought I was wasting my time at 1st looking in the pond.

Their pond is small. Only 6x4' and most is quite shallow. Max depth is 15." It will freeze solid for sure. I'm going to run a pump all winter but no guarantees.

 

[AJK Aquaria]

I forgot to mention how much I enjoyed your story. Manys the time I swore someone has stolen an animal only to have it turn up somewhere in their yard at a later time.

It was a definite shock. I was quite elated, though. Losing one of these would be pretty gut wrenching.

Thought I went a bit overboard with the story. But that's what happened, for sure. Glad you enjoyed it!

 

[AJK Aquaria]

I don't have box turtles anymore, but when I used to, I had an Eastern that I would occasionally find chilling in water in late fall or early spring when it was in the low 40's out. That's not hibernating, obviously, but it was still surprising to me that he could stand it and be barely affected.

The pond is most certainly cold, but I did not measure the temp. Was surprised that each turtle was alert and moving within moments of being removed from the water. Crazy stuff...

 

[mark1]

Interesting stuff. Thanks. I'm really glad I found them. Thought I was wasting my time at 1st looking in the pond.

Their pond is small. Only 6x4' and most is quite shallow. Max depth is 15." It will freeze solid for sure. I'm going to run a pump all winter but no guarantees.

if the sump is submerged it will add some heat to the water and keep the water moving , if the filter is in danger of freezing disconnect it and run it straight back into the pond , I don't believe a filter works very well , biologically , in the winter anyway ...... if your intent on running it all winter a small pond or stock tank deicer will keep the pond open , and 35-40 degrees ........

 

[AJK Aquaria]

if the sump is submerged it will add some heat to the water and keep the water moving , if the filter is in danger of freezing disconnect it and run it straight back into the pond , I don't believe a filter works very well , biologically , in the winter anyway ...... if your intent on running it all winter a small pond or stock tank deicer will keep the pond open , and 35-40 degrees ........

Just a simple submersible pump aimed for maximum surface agitation. Aquatic plants for nitrate. Any biological bacteria exists solely on any submerged surface. I chose to avoid filtration.

When I was younger, and lived with my parents, we had a good sized 'koi' pond. Pump ran year round and used a deicer as you described but ran on a timer. Almost every winter we lost some frogs. All native. They must of hunkered down too shallow.

 

[Berkeley]

My easterns periodically overwinter in their pond. No troubles at all. The three toes do it as well, but not as frequently.

With the pump in a pond over winter, I thought that that would be detrimental? In the winter, the warmer water sinks to the bottom of the water column- using a pump would bring it back to the surface, forcing the colder surface water down and then effectively cooling the entire water column and risking a freeze. It sounds counterintuitive, I know, but I always understood it to be that you should turn pumps off in the winter and that the lowest levels of the water column wouldn't freeze. That's my understanding of thermodynamics in water, perhaps I am mistaken.

Glad you found the turtles, though!

--Berkeley

 

[mark1]

I don't believe you are mistaken ...... "ponds" like mine are really not deep enough to be thermally stratified ........ even thought they do still freeze from the surface down , my goal is to keep them 35-40 degrees all winter , with as little electric as possible , I like the heat given off by a submerged pump , I have had both kinds , it seems I need less heat to accomplish what i'm looking for with a submerged pump ....