Unique gopher tortoise situation SW Fl

[Fl_gt_lover]

Hello everyone. New here and happy to find this forum. There’s only so much information out there. We have 4 gopher tortoises that live on our property. A shell island away from the mainland. They were brought over in the early 80s from previous island dwellers. Two are 50+ years old and the other two are around 2 years old (offspring). During hurricane Milton the surge on the island was the highest it has ever been. Destroying 9 burrows and leaving 1. Being a shell island they usually burrow under fallen tree roots. Since the storm they’re all trying to cram in 1 burrow. I have tried to dig new burrows but they want nothing to do with them. Any suggestions for how I can make these burrows more enticing? Our canopy has been hurt so there is so much more sun, and the temperature will be dropping soon. I am worried. Furthermore….we do not have grasses out here. The little we did have is all dead due to the surge. I have been harvesting some of their favorite food from the mainland and throwing it around. They are not eating much. Which brings me to my next question..how much should they really be eating??? Third….swollen white eyelids. I have seen this before and assumed it’s due to dehydration. We have always set random pans of water around the island (no freshwater here at all) and I do see them drink. The white eyelids tend to go away…but we have one whose eyelids not only look white…but a little swollen. Could this be a nutrient deficiency? I know of the respiratory infection but wildlife rescue has already told me if that’s what it is there’s nothing that can be done.

 

[wellington]

@Yvonne G

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Third….swollen white eyelids.

I wonder if this could be due to the stress, did this also happen with the surge?

 

[Yvonne G]

The white eyelids could be swollen nictitating membrane, usually from not eating (vitamin A dificiency).

It's good of you to help these tortoises. I understand they are protected by the State, so it's hard to do the right thing.

My first thought was to put out temporary shelters for them. Maybe using something natural like palm fronds or tree branches.

What were they eating prior to the storm surge? I think these would not be considered natural tortoises and may not be covered by Florida's tortoise regulations. It might be ok to feed and water them. Any dark, leafy greens like dandelion, mulberry, grape, mustard, escarole, endive, etc. I don't know the ag for your island, but do you think if you toss out some pasture grass seed it might take hold?

 

[Maro2Bear]

Wow, nice job trying to take care of these torts. What a setting i envision - a deserted shell island off the west coast of Florida. Upload some photos, se all would love to see your island & torts.

 

[Fl_gt_lover]

I wonder if this could be due to the stress, did this also happen with the surge?

Yes. He was not able to be captured but he survived. Couldn’t believe it. This place had at least 36-48 inches of water over the highest ground. But his burrow he’s lived in for decades was destroyed. And a lot of vegetation has been lost. So very stressful for sure! Lost his home, took a swim, and lost major food sources. We are actually going to see if we can dig out the old burrow at all tomorrow and see if he will finish the job/take to it.

 

[Fl_gt_lover]

The white eyelids could be swollen nictitating membrane, usually from not eating (vitamin A dificiency).

It's good of you to help these tortoises. I understand they are protected by the State, so it's hard to do the right thing.

My first thought was to put out temporary shelters for them. Maybe using something natural like palm fronds or tree branches.

What were they eating prior to the storm surge? I think these would not be considered natural tortoises and may not be covered by Florida's tortoise regulations. It might be ok to feed and water them. Any dark, leafy greens like dandelion, mulberry, grape, mustard, escarole, endive, etc. I don't know the ag for your island, but do you think if you toss out some pasture grass seed it might take hold?

Yvonne thank you! One of their favorite treats are mangos. I will get some of those and organic carrots. I know the grasses should be their main diet but if I can help with the vitamin A I will. I’ve honestly never seen dandelion grow here (I’m a native landscaper) but I could order some. This is a unique situation and I do appreciate no one judging me because they are protected by the state. Although that protection isn’t always the best. It was not mine nor their choice to be brought over here. They were rescued from a development sight. But this is their home none the less. The people before us and now us always set out fresh water in the winter. The summer there’s so much rain and vegetation they do not need us. I really do not feed them much at all but the things I’ve seen them eat are cactus, vincas, purslane, and lantana. All unfortunately have died due to the salt water. They will return with next year rain season but nothing will grow now during dry season. I purchased some plants to grow on our lot on the “mainland” that I can easily water and just cut and bring over. But I know the guy who lived here before would give them mango! So maybe that was really important for them. Right now their feces look like they’re full of dead leaves from white stoppers and indigo berries. These are the main trees out here. So idk if they’ve always munched on those or if this is out of desperation. There are plenty piles of debris for them to take refuge under and we won’t give up on the burrows. It’s possible they’ll start taking to them when it gets cold and they have no choice.

 

[Dustin]

They are a pretty cold tolerant species so as long as you don't get a freeze in your area this year they will probably be fine temperature wise.
I would avoid feeding them any mango. Fruit is generally considered bad for nearly all tortoises. If you think about it there is no analog to the mango in their natural habitat. Not even close really, considering the sugar content in most of todays mango cultivars.
Careful with the Lantana. It is widely reported as toxic to animals though there are reports of gopher tortoises eating some species.
You could probably drive around the mainland looking for people with an over abundance of spineless prickly pear cactus and ask if you can trim it. I would imagine that would be a good food source to get them through the winter until the plants start growing again. I would guess it is close enough to our native cacti nutritionally.

 

[Fl_gt_lover]

They are a pretty cold tolerant species so as long as you don't get a freeze in your area this year they will probably be fine temperature wise.
I would avoid feeding them any mango. Fruit is generally considered bad for nearly all tortoises. If you think about it there is no analog to the mango in their natural habitat. Not even close really, considering the sugar content in most of todays mango cultivars.
Careful with the Lantana. It is widely reported as toxic to animals though there are reports of gopher tortoises eating some species.
You could probably drive around the mainland looking for people with an over abundance of spineless prickly pear cactus and ask if you can trim it. I would imagine that would be a good food source to get them through the winter until the plants start growing again. I would guess it is close enough to our native cacti nutritionally.

Thank you for the advice. Prickly pear is a native to florida and one of their favorites. My area is the mango capital of the US and mangoes have been here for roughly 140 years so they actually are everywhere and tortoises do much on them here. I know fruit is not the best and any fruit should only be 10% of their diet. I’ve been scouring the mainland for items but we all flooded! And no one is really great about wanting cactus in their yard. And everything is brown lol. I do have sources but nothing is super abundant right now and I also have to be weary of pesticides folks love to spray. I have been gathering grasses from 45 minutes inland in a safe spot. I purchased some gopher tortoise friendly plants to grow and spread seed but I am not sure how much is enough. That’s why I’m asking how much do they typically eat. Online a lot of what to feed or where to purchase is directed to desert tortoises. Our tortoises are not pets. They are our neighbors and friends. We do not freeze here but they do get pretty inactive in the winter. They had an abundant summer at least and we are working on restoration.

 

[Dustin]

In regards to the cactus, I was referring to the spineless ornamental varieties that people like to grow in Florida. We find that most people are more than happy to get rid of it. We keep flyers in our cars to leave in mailboxes when we drive by houses with a lot of it. It is best to look for it in areas with older, more basic homes. Neighborhoods with block houses without stucco or trailer parks are hot spots.

Mangos may have been cultivated in Florida for a long time but Gopher tortoises have been living in the southeast for a LOT longer than that. Consuming that much sugar can't be natural for them. If it is bad or not, I don't know but this forum is very anti fruit. If they happen to find a mango on their own, no big deal but I would never offer it. None of this helps you now, mangos are not in season and no one wants a lecture.

 

[Fl_gt_lover]

I totally appreciate you! I won’t offer them the fruit. I came here for help so I’m not the type to ignore that help. I reached out to a wildlife rescue to see what they feed them when they’re in captivity. I was hesitant to do that at first but They gave me a whole list of safe “human grade” food to throw around. They also reassured me that they will more than likely be ok this winter.

 

[EppsDynasty]

I reached out to a wildlife rescue to see what they feed them when they’re in captivity.

I'm not expert but Mazuri is a great food for complete nutrition. I was recently told the original Blend 5M21 was formulated for Desert Tortoises in Nevada for the San Diego Zoo. It might be something to think about. Have you thought of Brumating them yourself in wood boxes this year or something like that? I agree with @Yvonne G I bet there not 'Native' in legal terms and would be able to be helped. If they have a respiratory issue of course the Gov. view is let em die. If their deemed 'Non Native' Respiratory issues can be helped. Captive doesn't mean caged I would bet.

 

[Dustin]

Gopher tortoises in South Florida don't really brumate. They are active year round but may stay in the burrow on the few days that we get where the temperature doesn't get over 70 or so during the day.

 

[Fl_gt_lover]

Wow, nice job trying to take care of these torts. What a setting i envision - a deserted shell island off the west coast of Florida. Upload some photos, se all would love to see your island &

A bit of a success story with this one. Slept in her “new” burrow last night. Ate a lot of food today, explored for about 3 hours and now back in her burrow tonight .

 

[ZEROPILOT]

With Redfoot, fruit can be over 60% of the diet. However, high sugar foods like mango....probably not as much.
Florida's gopher tortoise laws are so odd and so stacked against the tortoise and stacked pro developer or builder that it's probably not too smart to even mention that you're trying to help. At least not at the state or county level.
Plant some hibiscus nearby. They'll grow without any assistance and their leaves and flowers are good for them to eat. They'll no doubt start digging new burrows nearby. Especially now that it's not as hot mid day.

BTW. Welcome to the forum from South Florida

 

[Fl_gt_lover]

Thank you! And it is a very tricky situation. I wish I could share more with this being a community of tortoise lovers but I honestly probably wouldn’t have even posted on this forum if I knew I couldn’t delete the thread to protect my privacy. I was just looking for anyone that might know better than me. There’s a lot of unique things about where I live as far as soil and water resources that make this situation more difficult. Luckily I received some good advice and things are looking up.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

You have a certain level of privacy built in because your private information can't be seen.
Also, I see no laws broken.
I'm just reacting because of my own disappointment with FFWL while looking for assistance with gophers in the past.

 

[Fl_gt_lover]

For anyone following this story I just wanted to share another success. All 4 tortoises ate their fill today from a mix of food recommended by the rescue. Yesterday I uncovered some branches off an old burrow. And noticed it wasn’t completely filled in. I took a stick and was able to dig at it, meaning the ground was soft. It was mostly just mud and leaves, not shell. Today I followed the older male tortoise for about 3 hours. He’s hard to find so I thought maybe he found a new home. It was clear he was looking for a new place. I took him to the burrow I uncovered and he immediately took to it and started to dig!! He was out of sight in less than 10 minutes. He was the one with the swollen white eyelids. Now he has a place to seek refuge. The two adolescents are still sharing one burrow. So one more to go!

 

[Cathie G]

I could be wrong, but usually, if my captive tortoise has problematic eyelids I use an eye wash. I just think something like a wet muddy burrow could get dirt in the eyes of a tortoise. An eyedrop could help wash it out and relieve the irritation.