UVB and heat

[abdo]

It means that each brick expands about three times the size it is when dry.


Get a BIG bucket - clean (never used before, or at least never used with soap or other chemicals that could make your tortoise ill). I use a 5 gallon one, but I don't know the sizes available where you are.

Fill it at least half-full of warm water and put 1 brick of coco coir into it.

Let it soak until you can easily beak it apart with your hand. If it soaks up all the water but still has hard or stuck together pieces add more water and give it more time.

Once it is loose and mushy, wring out as much water as you can by hand (it will be messy).

Pack it by hand into the bottom of your enclosure.

Do this as many times as necessary to make a base layer about three inches deep.

You don't want it to be so wet that you can see the water standing in the coco coir.

I put a layer of fir bark the same thickness on top of the base layer, but other people do different ways, according to the kind of tortoise they have.

The enclosure should be closed to control the humidity level right?
If thats true is it ok to be open if the humidity level is easy to control in the room?
Also can i trust these coco bricks since it’s only 5$ which is half the price of eco earth bricks and three times more volume after expansion

 

[COmtnLady]

I just edited in a few differences into the above post. I found your picture of the label and it says it expands to 5 times the dry size.

My tortoise needs high humidity so I don't ventilate the enclosure at all, even though she is an adult. Enough air changes occur when I am feeding, or cleaning, or taking her out for a soak. That is enough to keep the air breathable.

Your room humidity is irrelevant for the tortoise enclosure. I don't know the ambient humidity where you are, but doubt it is over 80% all the time. Keep the top of the chamber closed except when you are cleaning or feeding or doing something with the tortoise. The humidity needs to be 80%.

Because your tortoise is a baby, it should be in high humidity with warm temperatures. After it is an adult, then you can do things differently.. Did you read the care sheets for Hermanis? They tell you what is needed for a healthy place for your tortoise to live at various stages of life.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/housing-young-russian-herman.217806/

You will have to ask the seller of the coco coir if it safe for bedding or substrate for animals, and it is also up to you to read what the label says your coco coir is made from. The label should agree with what the seller says. I think others have said specifically what is best, but you must check it out yourself. We are far away and if the Seller tells you it is not acceptable, you should believe them. But verify if the Seller says it is good to use. Some Sellers will have you buy bad stuff just so they can make some money. You have to find a Seller you can trust, but you still have the responsibility to verify what is safe for your tortoise.

 

[abdo]

I just edited in a few differences into the above post. I found your picture of the label and it says it expands to 5 times the dry size.

My tortoise needs high humidity so I don't ventilate the enclosure at all, even though she is an adult. Enough air changes occur when I am feeding, or cleaning, or taking her out for a soak. That is enough to keep the air breathable.

Your room humidity is irrelevant for the tortoise enclosure. I don't know the ambient humidity where you are, but doubt it is over 80% all the time. Keep the top of the chamber closed except when you are cleaning or feeding or doing something with the tortoise. The humidity needs to be 80%.

Because your tortoise is a baby, it should be in high humidity with warm temperatures. After it is an adult, then you can do things differently.. Did you read the care sheets for Hermanis? They tell you what is needed for a healthy place for your tortoise to live at various stages of life.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/housing-young-russian-herman.217806/

You will have to ask the seller of the coco coir if it safe for bedding or substrate for animals, and it is also up to you to read what the label says your coco coir is made from. The label should agree with what the seller says. I think others have said specifically what is best, but you must check it out yourself. We are far away and if the Seller tells you it is not acceptable, you should believe them. But verify if the Seller says it is good to use. Some Sellers will have you buy bad stuff just so they can make some money. You have to find a Seller you can trust, but you still have the responsibility to verify what is safe for your tortoise.

What about this enclosure
Ignore the top of the tortoise house and the room(hideout)
(just got the photo to make the idea easier to understand)
Note:
The one i drew should be the top
( red = acrylic , Black = wood )

 

[COmtnLady]

Those enclosures are a waste of money. They are too dry for hatchlings and too small for any tortoise that could live with an open top like that. They are no good for any tortoise., Cutting it in half makes it even worse, if that is at all possible.
Don't even bother to get one, they are junk and inappropriate.

Or you could raise a guinea pig/cavy instead of a tortoise. One of them might be able to live in that crummy thing, but no tortoise can.

Although, it might be acceptable to use as coffin, and just bury the entire thing with the dead tortoise that died from being in such a horrible torture chamber. That is about all it could be used for.

NO!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Is there no where that sells closed melamine vivs where you are? They’re quite an efficient choice, a 4x2 should last 2 years or so before needing an upgrade

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Something like this? I’d get one with a 2ft height and seal the vents at the back

Seal it well with aquatic silicone seal along the edges inside once built, then have some lining under the substrate, it won’t last forever but will definitely last long enough for what you need

 

[abdo]

No one of you understood what i want i am giving the picture to a joiner and tell him to make a top that is connected to the on in the photo with a hinge so i can open it the top is closed like the one i drew in the other photo and for removing the hideout i mean that it’s not going to be there but the dimensions will be the same (130Lx80Wx70H)cm and i am adding a lake liner inside, i hope you understood what i mean now
Summary:
Not going to buy one of those just taking the photo to explain the thing i want for the joiner

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

No one of you understood what i want i am giving the picture to a joiner and tell him to make a top that is connected to the on in the photo with a hinge so i can open it the top is closed like the one i drew in the other photo and for removing the hideout i mean that it’s not going to be there but the dimensions will be the same (130Lx80Wx70H)cm and i am adding a lake liner inside, i hope you understood what i mean now
Summary:
Not going to buy one of those just taking the photo to explain the thing i want for the joiner

The problem with that idea is the overall height won’t be enough with that kind of enclosure to have the bulbs contained within, you’d have to leave a gap and mount them on top, this can sometimes create a chimney effect that draws out all your heat and humidity, if going with an enclosure like that, you’d need a top kind of like this, but again for the money they are and how long they’ll actually last, there’s much better more efficient choices

 

[abdo]

The problem with that idea is the overall height won’t be enough with that kind of enclosure to have the bulbs contained within, you’d have to leave a gap and mount them on top, this can sometimes create a chimney effect that draws out all your heat and humidity, if going with an enclosure like that, you’d need a top kind of like this, but again for the money they are and how long they’ll actually last, there’s much better more efficient choices
View attachment 384570

What the problem for mounting the light and UVB source on the enclosure ceiling?

 

[COmtnLady]

No one of you understood what i want i am giving the picture to a joiner and tell him to make a top that is connected to the on in the photo with a hinge so i can open it the top is closed like the one i drew in the other photo and for removing the hideout i mean that it’s not going to be there but the dimensions will be the same (130Lx80Wx70H)cm and i am adding a lake liner inside, i hope you understood what i mean now
Summary:
Not going to buy one of those just taking the photo to explain the thing i want for the joiner

What you are talking about building is too small for an adult tortoise.
(130Lx80Wx70H) is (51x31.5x27.5 inches) Your proposed long side is the minimum width size usually considered to be the smallest ok enclosure to have for an adult. Unless you are only considering using the (130Lx80Wx70H), that you want to have built, for a hatchling, and replacing it for a much larger habitat in two to three years, you should just go for the bigger size now.
4feet x 8 feet is 122 cm x 244cm which is minimum size for one adult Hermans.

 

[COmtnLady]

As to the lights inside - In the discussions all throughout this thread, and in the Care Sheets, it explains how far up from the floor of the enclosure a light should be to get the right temperature focused at the level the tortoise is on, If the height is too short, you will have the lights too close to the tortoise-level and burn your tort's shell. Look at that picture LittleRedFoot just posted for you. That enclosure is twice as high as what you are proposing; it has room to move the the lights up and down a bit to adjust when needed.

 

[abdo]

As to the lights inside - In the discussions all throughout this thread, and in the Care Sheets, it explains how far up from the floor of the enclosure a light should be to get the right temperature focused at the level the tortoise is, If the height is too short, you will have the lights too close to the tortoise-level and burn your tort's shell. Look at that picture LittleRedFoot just posted for you. That enclosure is twice as high as what you are proposing; it has room to move the the lights up and down a bit to adjust when needed.

Can i just make an open top enclosure and add a box on top of it upside down to get the extra height as needed for example if I don’t need extra height i will just add a top and if i need 15cm i will add a 15cm height box

 

[COmtnLady]

It needs to be quite a bit bigger than the measurements you posted, and taller.

 

[abdo]

It needs to be quite a bit bigger than the measurements you posted, and taller.

Well now i am confused
Tom said 70-80cm also littleredfootbigredheart said 2ft(60cm) height in a previous post
And you are saying quite a bit bigger than that

 

[COmtnLady]

I don't know which dimension you are talking about.

If Tom discussed dimensions with you, why are we even still going over it? All I know is the size you wrote down is barely acceptable for a hatchling, and far too small for an adult. You have to be able to move the lights up and down to get the right exposures, And your tortoise has to be able to walk around a lot or it can't digest food and build strong bones.



And I have come to the end of my day and need to leave here until much later on. Good night. Perhaps someone else can explain it for you.

 

[abdo]

I don't know which dimension you are talking about.

If Tom discussed dimensions with you, why are we even still going over it? All I know is the size you wrote down is barely acceptable for a hatchling, and far too small for an adult. You have to be able to move the lights up and down to get the right exposures, And your tortoise has to be able to walk around a lot or it can't digest food and build strong bones.



And I have come to the end of my day and need to leave here until much later on. Good night. Perhaps someone else can explain it for you.

My bad Alex and the redfoot was the one who said 70-80cm height, Tom only discussed about base dimensions

 

[alaf]

Well now i am confused
Tom said 70-80cm also littleredfootbigredheart said 2ft(60cm) height in a previous post
And you are saying quite a bit bigger than that

60-80cm seem to be pretty good dimensions for height. That way you can have 10-15cm of substrate, 45-50cm between tort and UVB source and an extra 5cm for the fixture. You shouldn’t go much higher than that because if you do you will end up heating the top of the enclosure (far away from your tort) and you will need stronger heating elements to reach the temps required.

Just checking, are you sure you want two tortoises? Knowing that they will never be housed together? Do you or will you have the space to accommodate two 244x122cm enclosures inside or outside when they are around three years old?

Also if I were you I’d build/buy/ask someone to make an enclosure that will last three years (then you’ll be able to move them to an 244x122 open top each), so probably a 180x90cm enclosure per tortoise. Maybe ask @Tom for proper dimensions when they are that age because I’m only guessing here. What I do know is that the dimensions you are proposing will not last very long, maybe a year, two tops.

When it comes to the enclosure you want to modify. The enclosure in itself is not the problem, once it is modified it can work. The problem is that the enclosure once modified is expensive for what it is. You would be much better off making or buying an enclosure similar to the one @Littleredfootbigredheart posted with the front openings.

 

[abdo]

60-80cm seem to be pretty good dimensions for height. That way you can have 10-15cm of substrate, 45-50cm between tort and UVB source and an extra 5cm for the fixture. You shouldn’t go much higher than that because if you do you will end up heating the top of the enclosure (far away from your tort) and you will need stronger heating elements to reach the temps required.

Just checking, are you sure you want two tortoises? Knowing that they will never be housed together? Do you or will you have the space to accommodate two 244x122cm enclosures inside or outside when they are around three years old?

Also if I were you I’d build/buy/ask someone to make an enclosure that will last three years (then you’ll be able to move them to an 244x122 open top each), so probably a 180x90cm enclosure per tortoise. Maybe ask @Tom for proper dimensions when they are that age because I’m only guessing here. What I do know is that the dimensions you are proposing will not last very long, maybe a year, two tops.

When it comes to the enclosure you want to modify. The enclosure in itself is not the problem, once it is modified it can work. The problem is that the enclosure once modified is expensive for what it is. You would be much better off making or buying an enclosure similar to the one @Littleredfootbigredheart posted with the front openings.

Don’t worry i have cancelled the two tortoises idea
And for the enclosure I want to make a joiner make the enclosure and no way i am buying a ready enclosure because the sellers are selling it 3 times the original price
Also I guess that top opening will be better for me since the enclosure is going to be on the ground

 

[abdo]

Is this fixture good
if i added the substrate 15cm deep and the height was 80cm there should be 54cm between the substrate and the heat lamp

 

[alaf]

Don’t worry i have cancelled the two tortoises idea

Noted

And for the enclosure I want to make a joiner make the enclosure and no way i am buying a ready enclosure because the sellers are selling it 3 times the original price

You’d be surprised when you look at pvc enclosure how little people selling those seem to take for themselves, but I understand.

Also I guess that top opening will be better for me since the enclosure is going to be on the ground

Maybe. Mine are on the floor and basically front opening and I don’t have a problem but a top opening could work as well. You could just ask someone to build a box of the desired dimensions without the top + a frame to attached the lights + a top that would just rest on the light frame. Note that the lights would always stay in place and the cleaning could maybe be a little annoying at time because of them.