UVB Is there such a thing as to much?

Bwaterford

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So I will post what I bought but I really like the LED, UVB COMPACTS.... can I have both or can I have one on at one time and the other on another. The compacthas a way more adjustable light spectrum then the other one... Any one have some advice. It's for a red foot tortoise and do they give off heat? Will I have to add heat? Everything is either hear or being delivered this week so planning set up for this weekend. The one I have is the reptisun 37 watt 10 it 30r 4 foot long...it's one long bulb I think. The other I was thinking about was a led, uvb, compact that was light strength and color spectrum day to night adjustable like same length ect.... What's best for my red foot tortoise. Or can I use both....plus heat or ?
 

wellington

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The compacts should not be used. They can cause eye damage and don't always give out good uvb.
Straight Tube fluorescent for uvb
Incandescent FLOOD bulb for basking
Ceramic heat emitter or heat panels for night heat and added day heat that might be needed.
RF don't bask like others do so you can eliminate the basking or use it for less hours.
 

Littleredfootbigredheart

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Second what wellington said, never use the compact bulbs, if you read through that thread I gave you, it covers absolutely everything! Including uv and why not to use those bulbs!

Please look through it carefully, even if it’s just the photo examples at the end!
 

Bwaterford

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Second what wellington said, never use the compact bulbs, if you read through that thread I gave you, it covers absolutely everything! Including uv and why not to use those bulbs!

Please look through it carefully, even if it’s just the photo examples at the end!
I did read through what you sent, I do like the versatility of the compact but I will not use for my tortoise. I have the reptile sun already you suggested. But that does not give off heat. I have the ceramic heat that has no light and other heat sources if necessary. I fully intend to do what is best for my tortoise to meet his needs correctly. In my question I asked was there such thing as to much UVB? The light I have expands across the whole top and I got the best UVB bulb they make. I do however need to order a UV meter. Anything else or suggestions are welcome, I have most of everything for set up but I'm waiting on the stand....ugh. Hopefully it's here soon.
 

Markw84

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Yes, you do need to be careful about the amount of UVB, especially with the LED UVB bulbs. LEDs give off a very specific wavelength of light. Not a broader spectrum. There is currently no UVB LED bulb available that has solved this issue. Tortoises ( all animals) that synthesize vitamin D3 with UVB exposure have a built in metabolic mechanism that will prevent overdose with too much exposure. But that mechanism is stimulated by simultaneous exposure to a slightly higher wavelength than the one that stimulates D3 production. Sunlight and fluorescent UV has that range to cover the 293nm pre D formation and the 330nm wavelenght to stop conversion. LEDs do not.

No actual confirmed cases of overdose from this have been confirmed yet, but with this mechanism in mind, I would be cautious.

So I certainly would not used both. Stick with the fluorescent tube for your UVB source only.
 

Tom

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So I will post what I bought but I really like the LED, UVB COMPACTS.... can I have both or can I have one on at one time and the other on another. The compacthas a way more adjustable light spectrum then the other one... Any one have some advice. It's for a red foot tortoise and do they give off heat? Will I have to add heat? Everything is either hear or being delivered this week so planning set up for this weekend. The one I have is the reptisun 37 watt 10 it 30r 4 foot long...it's one long bulb I think. The other I was thinking about was a led, uvb, compact that was light strength and color spectrum day to night adjustable like same length ect.... What's best for my red foot tortoise. Or can I use both....plus heat or ?
You are confusing and mixing some of the terms, so I cannot be sure what you are asking about specific equipment. I'll try to give some general info that should help you sort it out.

-There is DEFINITELY such a thing as too much UV. You can literally sun burn or blind them. Be careful. Use a Solarmeter 6.5 to check levels. Run only one UV bulb at a time. The UV bulb should only be on for a few hours mid day. This means you will need additional lighting to make it bright so it looks like day time in the enclosure for 12 hours a day. Ambient heat controlled by a thermostat completes the needs for a RF. They do not need a basking bulb.
-The new ZooMed LED UV bars are good. I use them and they work well. They are strong, last a long time, make a little heat, and they are expensive.
-Other types of screw-in LED UV bulbs don't seem to be working out as well due to the too narrow range of UVB light that they produce. The ZooMed ones have additional light diodes that seem to balance out the spectrum a bit more.
-Compact type UV bulbs, CFLs, are an ineffective UV source and some of them burn tortoise eyes. Those should not be used.
-Arcadia HO tubes are the best ones made for UV. Reptisun HO tubes are fine too, but make sure it is an "HO" T5 tube, and not a regular T8 style bulb.
 

Markw84

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-The new ZooMed LED UV bars are good. I use them and they work well. They are strong, last a long time, make a little heat, and they are expensive.
Unfortunately the ZooMed LED has not solved this problem. It has added diodes to broaden its spectral range and give a more natural light but these are still specific spikes in the overall spectral range. To the human eye it blends to look better, but still lacks the longer wavelength UVB that will control overproduction of Pre-D
 

Tom

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Unfortunately the ZooMed LED has not solved this problem. It has added diodes to broaden its spectral range and give a more natural light but these are still specific spikes in the overall spectral range. To the human eye it blends to look better, but still lacks the longer wavelength UVB that will control overproduction of Pre-D
Thank you for the info.
 

Tim Carlisle

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You are confusing and mixing some of the terms, so I cannot be sure what you are asking about specific equipment. I'll try to give some general info that should help you sort it out.

-There is DEFINITELY such a thing as too much UV. You can literally sun burn or blind them. Be careful. Use a Solarmeter 6.5 to check levels. Run only one UV bulb at a time. The UV bulb should only be on for a few hours mid day. This means you will need additional lighting to make it bright so it looks like day time in the enclosure for 12 hours a day. Ambient heat controlled by a thermostat completes the needs for a RF. They do not need a basking bulb.
-The new ZooMed LED UV bars are good. I use them and they work well. They are strong, last a long time, make a little heat, and they are expensive.
-Other types of screw-in LED UV bulbs don't seem to be working out as well due to the too narrow range of UVB light that they produce. The ZooMed ones have additional light diodes that seem to balance out the spectrum a bit more.
-Compact type UV bulbs, CFLs, are an ineffective UV source and some of them burn tortoise eyes. Those should not be used.
-Arcadia HO tubes are the best ones made for UV. Reptisun HO tubes are fine too, but make sure it is an "HO" T5 tube, and not a regular T8 style bulb.
Curious what your thoughts are on the Arcadia LEDs. I've been a bit paranoid of purchasing any brand LED. I've not heard much feedback about them. Curious as to @Markw84 insight as well.
 

Tom

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Curious what your thoughts are on the Arcadia LEDs. I've been a bit paranoid of purchasing any brand LED. I've not heard much feedback about them. Curious as to @Markw84 insight as well.
I didn't know they were making one, so I have zero experience to offer on them. I'd like to know if Mark has looked into them as well.
 

Markw84

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Curious what your thoughts are on the Arcadia LEDs. I've been a bit paranoid of purchasing any brand LED. I've not heard much feedback about them. Curious as to @Markw84 insight as well.
There is currently no UVB LED bulb on the market that has been able to solve this problem. That includes Arcadia. LED diode just give off too specific and narrow a wavelength. The standard approach is to add more different diodes to cover more of the spectrum depending upon the desired color effect. But you are still left in broad gaps in the spectrum with the diodes filing in with very specific narrow spikes. SO with a 293nm spike you then add a 390nm UVA. Then a 490nm blue, a 550nm green and a 650nm red - and you have what looks to the human eye as a full spectrum light. But the vast majority of wavelengths are not really there. LED diodes produce very specific wavelengths.
 

Bwaterford

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Yes, you do need to be careful about the amount of UVB, especially with the LED UVB bulbs. LEDs give off a very specific wavelength of light. Not a broader spectrum. There is currently no UVB LED bulb available that has solved this issue. Tortoises ( all animals) that synthesize vitamin D3 with UVB exposure have a built in metabolic mechanism that will prevent overdose with too much exposure. But that mechanism is stimulated by simultaneous exposure to a slightly higher wavelength than the one that stimulates D3 production. Sunlight and fluorescent UV has that range to cover the 293nm pre D formation and the 330nm wavelenght to stop conversion. LEDs do not.

No actual confirmed cases of overdose from this have been confirmed yet, but with this mechanism in mind, I would be cautious.

So I certainly would not used both. Stick with the fluorescent tube for your UVB source only.
I was only asking for information purposes. I am only using the florescent Reptisun. I stated I like the versatility of the LED, but I do not have it, and was just wanting info on LED compacts. Thanks for answering my question, I appreciate it.
 

Markw84

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I was only asking for information purposes. I am only using the florescent Reptisun. I stated I like the versatility of the LED, but I do not have it, and was just wanting info on LED compacts. Thanks for answering my question, I appreciate it.
I also like the versatility and the low cost of using LEDs I do use them in my enclosure to enhance ambient lighting. For overall vision, good LEDs fit the application well. However, when then extending this to the very specific needs of stimulating D3 production metabolically, there are very different parameters than simply covering a broad spectrum to fill in gaps in colors.

In context - no overdose or problem has been seen yet in using the current LED UVB bulbs that we know of. Limiting exposure time and not having it too close or on too long should most probably eliminate concerns. We just need to be aware that UVB is dangerous and needs to be used properly. Nature filters UVB for us. The atmosphere and amount of travel through it has developed these natural limiters. Outdoors it is only there when the sun is brightest - giving clues - bright light and IR heat - that cause retreat and protection from too much. When we artificially add it to our enclosures without any of those natural filters and cues - we must think and be careful of what we are doing.
 

Tim Carlisle

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There is currently no UVB LED bulb on the market that has been able to solve this problem. That includes Arcadia. LED diode just give off too specific and narrow a wavelength. The standard approach is to add more different diodes to cover more of the spectrum depending upon the desired color effect. But you are still left in broad gaps in the spectrum with the diodes filing in with very specific narrow spikes. SO with a 293nm spike you then add a 390nm UVA. Then a 490nm blue, a 550nm green and a 650nm red - and you have what looks to the human eye as a full spectrum light. But the vast majority of wavelengths are not really there. LED diodes produce very specific wavelengths.
That's along the lines of what I've been hearing. I was hoping maybe Arcadia might have "perfected" it.
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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Curious what your thoughts are on the Arcadia LEDs. I've been a bit paranoid of purchasing any brand LED. I've not heard much feedback about them. Curious as to @Markw84 insight as well.
@Tim Carlisle, do you have a link to Arcadia UVB LEDs? My google-fu isn't strong enough. Jungle Dawn series is not UVB-emitting, just decent grow light LEDs.
 
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