Varieties

Rsek

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I know there a several varieties of various 'safe' plants and flowers i.e hibiscus, aloe, echeveria etc, and was wondering, is one better than the other? Are they all 'safe'?
T.I.A [emoji16]
 

RosemaryDW

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Hmm. Well, some of them are “better” than others at providing different things. Some provide more calcium, some provide more fiber, some provide different levels of vitamins. Your tortoise needs all these things to be healthy.

There is no one, or few “best” foods. Broccoli is good for humans but if we ate it all the time, it wouldn’t be a great diet, you know?

In the wild tortoises may sample hundreds of foods in a year. They still have their favorites; they still go through times of the year when certain foods are more available than others, but they’ve got to mix it up. That’s how they get exposure to all the types of food they need. We have a nice snippet of a research piece on what Russians eat in the wild right here in the forum:https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/article-steppe-tortoise-diet-in-the-wild.30230/. If you read it, you’ll see that Russians rely on several foods not recommended on many sites: poppy flowers are one; Ranunculaceae (buttercups) is another. But they also eat plenty of things of in the aster family (like the chicories we recommend here) and lots of foods in the braasicae family (the turnip greens, radish tops, rocket, cress, bok choy, and other dark greens we recommend). A little plantain here and there. And small amounts of whatever else they run across.

This is why you see so many references here to “good in moderation” or “good as part of a varied diet.” It can be hard to replicate a diet anything as broad as the natural one, particularly for owners without access to large grocers or open countryside but we want to rotate in and out as many foods as we can.

In the city you can rely largely on chicories and brassicas from the grocery store but mix in anything you can from different plant families. Hibiscus comes from a different plant family and is great for fiber. Aloes and succulents have their own benefits but my Russian won’t eat them, lol.

What kind of groceries do you have access to that aren’t Sainsbury’s or Tesco? London is so international now; you might have options you don’t know about. You’ve got Indian, Korean, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan, Chinese... Many of them sell foods that are unfamiliar to us but great for tortoises. You’ve actually got an H Mart these days, which is one of my favorite tortoise-friendly grocers here in California!
 

WithLisa

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When choosing plants for the enclosure I mostly prefer the "wildtype" to fancy varieties, but it's probably not much difference if you feed hibiscus with pink or blue flowers.
 

Rsek

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Thanks, there's not great grocery stores near me, I am growing tortoise friendly seeds for him but they are no where close to mature enough to start feeding. I'm also struggling a bit to collect wild weeds as the parks seem to have been weeded and I am uncertain about the use of pesticides too. I am hoping they will be productive by the end of August.
Before he came to me, he was eating badly with a diet of iceberg, cucumber, tomatoes for fresh food, but predominantly t-rex pellets. I took him on as a rescue, where he had been living with an elderly woman but she didn't want to be bothered with him anymore, so her son arranged for me to take him. He has some pyramiding, but it is not too dramatic, and doesn't effect his mobility at all, I am not surprised knowing what he 'should' have been eating, that his shell isn't great, but I have been taking care of it now (I can't change the years of bad growth but I can make the best of a bad situation)
He was being kept on guinea pig type sawdust, and was quite dehydrated when he came to me. His urates were like chalk, but we have a daily soak when he comes back from a couple of hours outside (I put his run on a patch with white clover, daisies, hawk's beard and danelion, as well as grass, which he loves to graze on) and this has gone through the'toothpaste'stage of things to hardly any if at all.
He seems to love aloe and echeveria, presumably because he was fond of cucumber previously.
He has never been hibernated, despite his species, and as I have only been his custodian a short while, I'm planning to overwinter him entirely indoors in his table this year at least. He likes rose and hibiscus petals, but I only have dried at the moment which seem to make him thirsty, which makes sense, so I am going to invest in a naturally grown hibiscus and little rose plant because they don't flower til they are a couple of years old. He seems to be enjoying having better, more natural/appropriate food and variety, it is nice to give him a choice of variable things.
I appreciate your guidance, I just want to do right by this little guy. He is 12, so I am hoping that the best diet I can provide will equate to a long, happy relationship [emoji217][emoji4]
 

daniellenc

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Thanks, there's not great grocery stores near me, I am growing tortoise friendly seeds for him but they are no where close to mature enough to start feeding. I'm also struggling a bit to collect wild weeds as the parks seem to have been weeded and I am uncertain about the use of pesticides too. I am hoping they will be productive by the end of August.
Before he came to me, he was eating badly with a diet of iceberg, cucumber, tomatoes for fresh food, but predominantly t-rex pellets. I took him on as a rescue, where he had been living with an elderly woman but she didn't want to be bothered with him anymore, so her son arranged for me to take him. He has some pyramiding, but it is not too dramatic, and doesn't effect his mobility at all, I am not surprised knowing what he 'should' have been eating, that his shell isn't great, but I have been taking care of it now (I can't change the years of bad growth but I can make the best of a bad situation)
He was being kept on guinea pig type sawdust, and was quite dehydrated when he came to me. His urates were like chalk, but we have a daily soak when he comes back from a couple of hours outside (I put his run on a patch with white clover, daisies, hawk's beard and danelion, as well as grass, which he loves to graze on) and this has gone through the'toothpaste'stage of things to hardly any if at all.
He seems to love aloe and echeveria, presumably because he was fond of cucumber previously.
He has never been hibernated, despite his species, and as I have only been his custodian a short while, I'm planning to overwinter him entirely indoors in his table this year at least. He likes rose and hibiscus petals, but I only have dried at the moment which seem to make him thirsty, which makes sense, so I am going to invest in a naturally grown hibiscus and little rose plant because they don't flower til they are a couple of years old. He seems to be enjoying having better, more natural/appropriate food and variety, it is nice to give him a choice of variable things.
I appreciate your guidance, I just want to do right by this little guy. He is 12, so I am hoping that the best diet I can provide will equate to a long, happy relationship [emoji217][emoji4]
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk...actwords&searchtxt=daisy&x=0&y=0#.WzT9jopKiUk

Not all daisy's are edible so before feeding new foods definitely look it up on the tortoise table. Also, living in London what do you mean there is no grocery stores near you? How do you eat, lol?
 

Rsek

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Of course there are stores, they just don't sell those kind of things local to me. I'm restricted by distance at the moment as I can't walk ([emoji708]) and don't currently have a car I can use to go further afield. The problem I have with the little independent stores is the vast majority don't have good wheelchair access (even though they are supposed to, the reality is they don't. I have applied for a car to be adapted for me to drive, but at the moment, local stores are my limit.
They sell salad of course, but for example, I can get radishes, but only with the tops preremoved, I can get kale, and mixed leaves, but not things like bok choy etc. My local store doesn't stock 'whole' veggies (except cauliflower which is still leafy when sold)
 

daniellenc

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Of course there are stores, they just don't sell those kind of things local to me. I'm restricted by distance at the moment as I can't walk ([emoji708]) and don't currently have a car I can use to go further afield. The problem I have with the little independent stores is the vast majority don't have good wheelchair access (even though they are supposed to, the reality is they don't. I have applied for a car to be adapted for me to drive, but at the moment, local stores are my limit.
They sell salad of course, but for example, I can get radishes, but only with the tops preremoved, I can get kale, and mixed leaves, but not things like bok choy etc. My local store doesn't stock 'whole' veggies (except cauliflower which is still leafy when sold)
Oh that's rough. In the US even chain stores sell a pretty great variety of greens and we have specialty stores all over. We also have store delivery to your doorstep. Is that available there at all?
 

Rsek

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Oh that's rough. In the US even chain stores sell a pretty great variety of greens and we have specialty stores all over. We also have store delivery to your doorstep. Is that available there at all?
There are stores that deliver but not the one I use usually, and you have to spend a minimum amount. I will have a look on Asda website (the equivalent to Walmart) as I know they also have a 'world foods' section and I might have more luck getting bok choy and the other things that aren't available much elsewhere. If they do, I'll probably switch to using them too as I don't think I could easily keep £50 worth of greens fresh enough, but if I topped it of with my own groceries and did it once every couple of weeks it might be manageable. Good idea -thank you!
I already have the app on my phone but I have never used it before, definitely worth a look [emoji4]
 

JoesMum

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Hi there

I am based in Kent, not so far from you in London

You are correct that we don't have the same range of greens in our grocery stores to the US, but having raised a tort in the UK for over 40 years there is plenty to get.

The best option is to start with identifyimg the plants and weeds that grow around you. Post photos in the TFO plant ID forum if you need help.

If you know what they're called then look them up on The Tortoise Table Plant Database for suitability to feed
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

This is a marvellous on line search facility that helps you identify what you can or can't feed and tells you why.

You can also look up the greens that you can buy in the supermarkets and shops on The Tortoise Table.

In winter, few of us manage without supplementing with a good quality pelleted food. I used Komodo softened with eater. Mazuri is mkw available through Shelled Warriors Shop http://www.shelledwarriorsshop.co.uk/mazuri-leaf-eater-500g-7673-p.asp
 

Rsek

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Hi there

I am based in Kent, not so far from you in London

You are correct that we don't have the same range of greens in our grocery stores to the US, but having raised a tort in the UK for over 40 years there is plenty to get.

The best option is to start with identifyimg the plants and weeds that grow around you. Post photos in the TFO plant ID forum if you need help.

If you know what they're called then look them up on The Tortoise Table Plant Database for suitability to feed
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

This is a marvellous on line search facility that helps you identify what you can or can't feed and tells you why.

You can also look up the greens that you can buy in the supermarkets and shops on The Tortoise Table.

In winter, few of us manage without supplementing with a good quality pelleted food. I used Komodo softened with eater. Mazuri is mkw available through Shelled Warriors Shop http://www.shelledwarriorsshop.co.uk/mazuri-leaf-eater-500g-7673-p.asp
I'm growing my own seeds from SW, but they aren't ready yet unfortunately [emoji31]
In the warm weather we are having most have shot up but they aren't well established.
There's loads of stinging nettles down by the river near me but all of the parks tend to use weed killer and/or destroy and Dandy's, hawk's beard etc before it gets the chance to grow. My housing association is responsible for the garden where I am, so going to ask them to save the weeds, or leave me a pile of the cuttings so I can pick out what can be used as there is LOTS around here in terms of clover and hawk's beard especially, but it is almost impossible to pick up from my [emoji708] when it's mixed up with the lawns [emoji19]I know they don't use weed killer so here's hoping..
What is the best supplement in your opinion, it would be good to get some just in case I struggle with my crop once winter hits
 

JoesMum

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I'm growing my own seeds from SW, but they aren't ready yet unfortunately [emoji31]
In the warm weather we are having most have shot up but they aren't well established.
There's loads of stinging nettles down by the river near me but all of the parks tend to use weed killer and/or destroy and Dandy's, hawk's beard etc before it gets the chance to grow. My housing association is responsible for the garden where I am, so going to ask them to save the weeds, or leave me a pile of the cuttings so I can pick out what can be used as there is LOTS around here in terms of clover and hawk's beard especially, but it is almost impossible to pick up from my [emoji708] when it's mixed up with the lawns [emoji19]I know they don't use weed killer so here's hoping..
What is the best supplement in your opinion, it would be good to get some just in case I struggle with my crop once winter hits
Just pick the weeds as they grow from the housing association land. They're best fresh and you only need a few leaves.

Don't forget to check the bushes. Rose leaves for exmple are good to feed. Your neighbours may well be happy for you to do a little weeding for them. Mine just rolled their eyes and grinned when I asked if I could harvest their weeds on a regular basis :D

Like I said, I supplemented with Komodo. The American members of this forum swera by Mazuri, they can't get Komodo, but I never tried it.

Look up the greens you can but from the shops on the Toroise Table; you will be surprised by the range. A tray of "living lettuce" will supply fresh greens you can grow on your windowsill. Bith Sainsbury's and Waitrose do them for £1 (we don't have Asda and Tesco here)

A spider plant is good too. Grow one on the windowsill and you will have a constant supply of baby plants growing on runners from the main plant :)
 

Rsek

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Just pick the weeds as they grow from the housing association land. They're best fresh and you only need a few leaves.

Don't forget to check the bushes. Rose leaves for exmple are good to feed. Your neighbours may well be happy for you to do a little weeding for them. Mine just rolled their eyes and grinned when I asked if I could harvest their weeds on a regular basis :D

Like I said, I supplemented with Komodo. The American members of this forum swera by Mazuri, they can't get Komodo, but I never tried it.

Look up the greens you can but from the shops on the Toroise Table; you will be surprised by the range. A tray of "living lettuce" will supply fresh greens you can grow on your windowsill. Bith Sainsbury's and Waitrose do them for £1 (we don't have Asda and Tesco here)

A spider plant is good too. Grow one on the windowsill and you will have a constant supply of baby plants growing on runners from the main plant :)
I'm on it, thanks for the tips, I've been a bit concerned about how to overwinter without greens[emoji44] what is living lettuce, I've seen it before but have no idea what specifically the plant is [emoji23]
 

JoesMum

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I'm on it, thanks for the tips, I've been a bit concerned about how to overwinter without greens[emoji44] what is living lettuce, I've seen it before but have no idea what specifically the plant is [emoji23]

It’s a tray of mixed salad leaves about the size of A5 paper. It’s designed so people can grow it and pull a few for their sandwich and then leave the rest to grow on.

They’re usually the dark green/purple varieties of lettuce which are best for your tort.

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/gb/groceries/sainsburys-living-salads

https://groceries.asda.com/product/lettuce/asda-growers-selection-living-salad-leaves/910000327757

You need to feed other stuff. Lettuce alone isn’t good. Use as part of a mixture
 

katieandiggy

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Hi from Suffolk!

There is a good salad bag called crispy salad. It contains frisse, radicchio and labs lettuce it’s £1 and in pretty much every supermarket.
In the supermarket you can also get romaine, Bok choy.
I also use Komodo food, I was using pre Alpin but I’ve switched over to Komodo.
I am growing seeds from SW too, mine are doing good, they take a while to start but once going they keep coming back.

IMG_2395.jpg

That’s my weeds from SW
 

Rsek

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Hi from Suffolk!

There is a good salad bag called crispy salad. It contains frisse, radicchio and labs lettuce it’s £1 and in pretty much every supermarket.
In the supermarket you can also get romaine, Bok choy.
I also use Komodo food, I was using pre Alpin but I’ve switched over to Komodo.
I am growing seeds from SW too, mine are doing good, they take a while to start but once going they keep coming back.

View attachment 243373

That’s my weeds from SW
They are looking great, mine are no where near as full, perhaps I'll just add some more and hope, I was worried if I overcrowded they wouldn't grow!
 

Rsek

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Hi from Suffolk!

There is a good salad bag called crispy salad. It contains frisse, radicchio and labs lettuce it’s £1 and in pretty much every supermarket.
In the supermarket you can also get romaine, Bok choy.
I also use Komodo food, I was using pre Alpin but I’ve switched over to Komodo.
I am growing seeds from SW too, mine are doing good, they take a while to start but once going they keep coming back.

View attachment 243373

That’s my weeds from SW
Also they don't sell bok choy anywhere near me[emoji19] I'll try and find seeds instead [emoji23]
 

RosemaryDW

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Also they don't sell bok choy anywhere near me[emoji19] I'll try and find seeds instead [emoji23]

If you looking for seeds for things you can alternate with kale, you might just stick with turnips for greens. They are both relatively easy to grow and high in calcium, but you can harvest turnip greens in about half the time.

I’m not sure summer is the best time to plant either, though. London summers can actually be hot, I am told. :)

Can you get seeds for okra (lady fingers)? It’s related to hibiscus but should be faster to start from seed and summer is the time to plant it. It gets tall, given enough warm weather.
 

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