Wall-Mount Infrared Quartz Heaters

[vladimir]

Now that the temperatures have dropped I've been looking at options for more overall ambient temperatures in his indoor enclosure (8' x 16'). I recently picked up one of these from Tractor Supply Co:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/redstone-ceiling-wall-mount-quartz-heater?cm_vc=-10005

Here's a link to the manual for reference: https://www.tractorsupply.com/static/sites/TSC/downloads/ProdContentPDFs/2171132_Man1.pdf


On Low it offers 760w of heat via one bulb. I currently have it mounted on the wall above the ground in Vladimir's enclosure and he seems to be really enjoying it. It's definitely raising the ground temps in the area by a decent amount. I have a thermostat being delivered today so I can get it properly set up. But it seems to be tortoise approved so far:







I wanted to get the opinions of others (like @Markw84 especially, sorry to bother you ) on whether these infrared quartz heaters are a safe option for tortoises. I don't want to be doing anything that will cause extra dessication or anything else that would be harmful to my little guy.

I can raise the heater up higher if necessary. Right now the entire 4x8 area in front of the heater is between 75-85 at tortoise level.

Thanks!

 

[Yvonne G]

I know that quite a few of those are in use above the workers in warehouses, etc. But I THINK (I have no science behind my thought) it might be too desiccating to be shining down on a tortoise. I prefer the mini oil radiator electric heater. It's a milder, not obnoxious kind of heat.

 

[Markw84]

I just wish there was more real data available on IR and desiccation as it applies to reptile basking. Even tortoise basking is different than snake and lizzard, so studies would be great. Just not there. Even Dr Baines, who has done a lot on IR, still leaves questions in my mind as she always has pointed to the filtering the atmosphere does with "natural sunlight" and the absorption bands. However, I have never seen her address the fact that the absorption bands of liquid water (that would more account for desiccation) is totally different than the absorption bands of water vapor. So I don't see the benefits in that regard to "natural sunlight" as the less desiccating source. My thoughts are more towards the intensity and focus of the IR.

My current feelings I use are along the lines that I like the longer waverlengths over the shorter, Near IR wavelengths for providing heat. The shorter the wavelength, the more energy there is. A simple rule to keep in mind, is that the wavelength of the IR is in direct proportion to the heat of the source creating it. That also means the brighter the source looks to you, the shorter the wavelength. Visible light is also producing heat, but along with it a lot of very near IR. So a Mercury vapor bulb, for example is producing a tremendous amount of very near IR at a very high intensity. A CHE operates at about 400° and is producing only mid IR in the 3000nm - 6000nm range. It is much more diffused and not focused, and is more easily absorbed by cellular tissue as "deep heating". The human body, for comparison, at just under 100° puts out far IR in the 1mm range (1,000,000nm)

So the cooler the source of IR, the longer the wavelength. The longer wavelengths are known for being more gentler and deep heating sources. Shorter wavelengths are more intense and capable of burning when focused. Your quartz heater is producing mid IR, but it is designed to be more intense and focused to be used to heating spaces where people can actually feel and benefit from the heating at a distance. The Mid IR is fine, but the intensity would be of concern to me. There is also some near IR with these heaters as evident by the fact that they do produce a visible light.

Another concern I have is that the eye can still focus near IR, even when not a visible IR (in the 800nm-1200nm range). This could be troubling when using a source that has little visible light but still produces substantial near IR. You, or your tortoise, can look directly at the source and get no brightness reflex taht would cause you to look away. But the Near IR is still being focused by the eye onto the retina and can potentially cause damage.

So my preference is to stay with heat that is produced by sourced that are "cooler" and produce no visible light at all, and are not focused by reflectors of any kind. CHE's, radiant heat panels, oil filled radiators, etc.

Again, this is my current feelings, not meant to be fact, but opinion. Although based on as much research and experience as I can provide, it is still opinion.

 

[vladimir]

@Markw84 Thank you so much for the detailed response. I need to heat a fairly large area, so I'm afraid a CHE would be too drying on his shell. I have a 120w RHP mounted in a semi enclosed area of the enclosure, but that doesn't seem to produce as much heat as I'd like.

I think I might give a mini oil filled radiator a try, combined with a fan to blow the warm air back down to ground level. The appeal of this setup was it was easy to mount safely away from the tortoise and aimed the heat downward.

Thanks again for your input!

 

[jsheffield]

I've been thinking about one of these for the outside enclosure I'm setting up for Darwin for when it gets warm again ...

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200715133_200715133

Jamie

 

[wellington]

I heat a 20x10 approx shed with an oil filled radiator heater and a ceiling fan on low. The fan pushes the rising heat back down to tort level.
Then I have added heat of Che and basking/uvb light in the hide area. At night lights go out all others stay on with thermostats

 

[vladimir]

@wellington What wattage is the heater, and what's the average ambient temp in the shed? I'm assuming you've got decent insulation in there also?

 

[wellington]

At the highest setting it's 1500 watt. The temp at floor level is anywhere from 78 to 85 and 80-90 at the leopards table level. Thermostat set at 85.
Insulation is floor, ceiling, walls. The thermostat is above the ground about 4-6 inches. I then have a back up heater with Thermostat that is up closer too the ceiling. This way it won't ever come on unless the other one fails.

 

[vladimir]

Thanks guys. I ordered another 700w mini oil filled radiator and a room circulation fan - I'm going to try getting those set up and comparing with the wall mounted quartz heater. It was worth a try to see what it was like.

Thanks again!

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

@Markw84 in regards to IR affecting water vapor, versus liquid water, versus ice. Consider sublimation occurs more readily at high altitude than at low altitude. The wave lengths of energy are acting on the individual molecules. The state of the water just indicates the duration that action takes to effect. High altitude ice sublimates as those wave length of energy are more abundant at high altitude.

This was from a lecture given by Sir Edmund Hillary talking about the giant footsteps of wolves that had been distorted by sublimating ice being interpreted as evidence of the abominable snowman foot prints. It never happens at lower elevation, because, as above. His ending comment was something the the effect of 'isn't more miraculous that wolves will range this high in the mountains, than the idea there may be some sort of snow man'.

I have seen these infrared heaters used in zoo's, but that doesn't make it 'right'. I agree that they are too intense for to small a space (the area affected by the heat, not the size of the enclosure) and that tortoises won't really know how to thermoregulate using them. Either because they can't see the heat (white light) or that it is not the same as heat emanating from some sort of heat body like a rock.

 

[Markw84]

@Markw84 in regards to IR affecting water vapor, versus liquid water, versus ice. Consider sublimation occurs more readily at high altitude than at low altitude. The wave lengths of energy are acting on the individual molecules. The state of the water just indicates the duration that action takes to effect. High altitude ice sublimates as those wave length of energy are more abundant at high altitude.

We are talking about different effect. Sublimation occurs more readily at higher altitudes because of the vastly reduced atmospheric pressure, where when heat (IR) is acting upon it, vapor can form without an intermediate water state. This does not have anything to do with absorption band of IR. The absorption frequency of H2O is totally different depending upon its state. The wavelength of the energy (IR) and whether it is absorbed by the molecule is different when H20 is in a vapor state and has different vibrating frequencies. At low energy state = water and ice, the absorption frequencies are similar. As a vapor with its many vibrating patterns it has 7 basic and distinct absorption frequencies of IR. Water and Ice has a very relatively flat curve and no real absorption frequencies.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

We are talking about different effect. Sublimation occurs more readily at higher altitudes because of the vastly reduced atmospheric pressure, where when heat (IR) is acting upon it, vapor can form without an intermediate water state. This does not have anything to do with absorption band of IR. The absorption frequency of H2O is totally different depending upon its state. The wavelength of the energy (IR) and whether it is absorbed by the molecule is different when H20 is in a vapor state and has different vibrating frequencies. At low energy state = water and ice, the absorption frequencies are similar. As a vapor with its many vibrating patterns it has 7 basic and distinct absorption frequencies of IR. Water and Ice has a very relatively flat curve and no real absorption frequencies.

It my understanding both Energy from the IR spectrum (heat) and lower atmospheric pressure) can play a role.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall16/atmo336s2/lectures/sec1/water.html

It would seem that both water vapor, and liquid water, as well as ice are in the atmosphere filtering the IR spectrum. So each state of water exists in the atmosphere, no doubt vapor being in the highest proportion. I think there is no doubt some 'filtering' effect for all the water affected parts of the IR band from the atmosphere. Does this address you further consideration "feeling" or as Heinlein might say, does this grok for you? @Markw84

That sublimation also occurs in the atmosphere does not excuse my mis-use of the term in the way I was using it. I simply meant that each water molecule that maintains plasticity in the shell might be individually, moleculary, affected by the non-filtered IR hitting it. No ice on the shell, so the water would be liquid ( and therefore not sublimate), take less energy to evaporate than if it were ice. My poor inference is that it is happening one molecule at a time. The energy to go from liquid to vapor is one molecule at a time, the whole shell does not have to heat to the 'boiling point' relative to the elevation of the tortoise (the atmospheric pressure at its location). It is water boiling one molecule at a time. That is my grok on the situation.

 

[vladimir]

Thanks again for the input everyone. I've swapped it out for a 700w mini radiator and it seems to be working well.