Wont eat ANYTHING

[Yvonne G]

The white poo (urates) is what's left over after they've saved their urine for a long time. It should normally be creamy consistency. If it gets hard and crumbly it means the tortoise is dehydrated. Tortoises don't always let out urates, only occasionally.

Tortoises are territorial. They want to live in their 'territory', a place where they know they're safe and there are no other tortoises to fight over. When you keep moving the tortoise around it never gets settled into its territory. Put it outside during the day and if it doesn't have a safe night time shelter, then it's ok to bring it in and place it in a cardboard box for the night, but back outside the following morning. It will soon come to realize that the outside portion of the tortoise's day is a safe territory.

Has your grass ever been treated with herbicides or pesticides? Does the tortoise poop? How often? Besides the urates, have you seen pee? What's the temperature outside? Is there shade? Sun? Shelter like bushes, etc.?

I'm sorry to say, but if this tortoise doesn't start eating once it settles into the outside territory, you're going to have to take it to a qualified vet.

 

[TurtisTime]

The white poo (urates) is what's left over after they've saved their urine for a long time. It should normally be creamy consistency. If it gets hard and crumbly it means the tortoise is dehydrated. Tortoises don't always let out urates, only occasionally.

Tortoises are territorial. They want to live in their 'territory', a place where they know they're safe and there are no other tortoises to fight over. When you keep moving the tortoise around it never gets settled into its territory. Put it outside during the day and if it doesn't have a safe night time shelter, then it's ok to bring it in and place it in a cardboard box for the night, but back outside the following morning. It will soon come to realize that the outside portion of the tortoise's day is a safe territory.

Has your grass ever been treated with herbicides or pesticides? Does the tortoise poop? How often? Besides the urates, have you seen pee? What's the temperature outside? Is there shade? Sun? Shelter like bushes, etc.?

I'm sorry to say, but if this tortoise doesn't start eating once it settles into the outside territory, you're going to have to take it to a qualified vet.

No we don't use pesticides. She pooped one big long stool yesterday that took her hours to finish pushing out. Two days before she made 6 small stools about dime to nickel size while in a bath of squash and water. I saw pee 3-4 days ago. It was a bit crumbly, sort of like there's little bits of poo in it? That's all the movements I've seen this week. Temp outside reaches 100 degrees mid day. Her area stays half sun half shade most of the day. She has a couple of flower pots to hide in for shelter, no bushes. The first few days I had her I left her out all day. She was ok at first then after 2 days became lethargic.
Now
She explores her habitat in the morning. Looks at her food but doesn't eat it. Then chooses to sun herself until she goes to find shade and sleep the rest of the day. I bring her in from 1pm-6pm until it's not so hot. When I bring her out in the evening she might change where she's laying once or twice but that's all. I'm giving her long baths in the am (for about an hour, usually with squash or pumpkin) then a short bath of just water at night when she comes in.

 

[Yvonne G]

That could be why the tortoise hasn't been eating - that long poo. Also, if the urates in the pee were crumbly, it means the tortoise may be a bit dehydrated.

Flower pots really aren't any good shelter. It's just as hot inside a flower pot with that wide opening as it is outside.

Someone else please jump in here. . . I'm out of ideas.

 

[TurtisTime]

That could be why the tortoise hasn't been eating - that long poo. Also, if the urates in the pee were crumbly, it means the tortoise may be a bit dehydrated.

Flower pots really aren't any good shelter. It's just as hot inside a flower pot with that wide opening as it is outside.

Someone else please jump in here. . . I'm out of ideas.

What does the long poo mean, she's backed up? I'm guessing she was/is dehydrated. Hoping baths help. I even mist her when it's hot out. And the hide should be bigger than its opening? That makes a lot of sense.
Thank you so much for trying to help me. I know I'm probably really annoying. I apologize. Please forgive me, I am in love and she is not well. I will take her to the vet if it continues much longer. Thank you all for trying to help me make sure I'm doing the best that I can for her.

 

[TurtisTime]

Tomorrow I'll post updated pics of her inclosure and close ups of her eyes etc.

 

[Tom]

The temperatures all sound good to me, 95-100 outside but 80-85 in the shade is good. I prefer to bring them inside at night, and 85 inside sounds ok, but I'd let it drop to about 78-80 when its going to be 90-100 outside. Out all day for a 7" sulcata in warm weather should also be fine, but if the tortoise isn't used to it, sunburned eyes is a possibility. I know it might sound silly, but I've had this happen with hatchlings. Just like people get a tan and get used to the sun, tortoises also have to build up a tolerance.

And this leads me to another question that I haven't seen asked: What type of UV bulb are you using indoors? You don't need indoor UV for a tortoise that is outside a lot, btw…

It also sounds like you are seeing a lot of poop and urates. Without eating, there is no pooping, so it seems the tortoise is eating something somewhere.

All the urates you are seeing are also cause for concern. Given this situation, I think an x-ray is in order. Be cautious. Most vets know very little about tortoises and they offer bad care advice, and they want to do treatments that are unnecessary and sometimes detrimental. Politely decline the offer of "vitamin" injections. I also would not allow anti-biotic injections in this case, because I haven't seen any symptoms that suggest it would be needed. A simple x-ray and fecal exam should give us the next clues we need in this puzzle. You'll have to be firm here. Some of them are good sales people and they can charge more money for more stuff. Others really do mean well, but they just don't know tortoises. There is no semester on tortoise biology and husbandry in vet school. They may learn how to spay and neuter dogs, but they don't learn diddly squat about tortoises in vet school, and most of the reference material they use is all old, out-dated, incorrect info anyway. The best place to learn good tortoise care is from people like Yvonne, and so many others here, that have been keeping lots of tortoises for lots of years. Anyhow, an x-ray will show if there is a large stone, blockage, or backed up constipation.

Due to all the fruit, I don't think we can completely rule out an upset tummy too. Sugary fruits play havoc with their intestinal flora and fauna. Glad those days are over for this tortoise.

FInally, I agree that something is wrong here. Sulcatas usually eat on day one and by day seven, this tortoise should be scaring you with the amount of food it is putting away. We will help you get this figured out.

 

[TurtisTime]

The temperatures all sound good to me, 95-100 outside but 80-85 in the shade is good. I prefer to bring them inside at night, and 85 inside sounds ok, but I'd let it drop to about 78-80 when its going to be 90-100 outside. Out all day for a 7" sulcata in warm weather should also be fine, but if the tortoise isn't used to it, sunburned eyes is a possibility. I know it might sound silly, but I've had this happen with hatchlings. Just like people get a tan and get used to the sun, tortoises also have to build up a tolerance.

And this leads me to another question that I haven't seen asked: What type of UV bulb are you using indoors? You don't need indoor UV for a tortoise that is outside a lot, btw…

It also sounds like you are seeing a lot of poop and urates. Without eating, there is no pooping, so it seems the tortoise is eating something somewhere.

All the urates you are seeing are also cause for concern. Given this situation, I think an x-ray is in order. Be cautious. Most vets know very little about tortoises and they offer bad care advice, and they want to do treatments that are unnecessary and sometimes detrimental. Politely decline the offer of "vitamin" injections. I also would not allow anti-biotic injections in this case, because I haven't seen any symptoms that suggest it would be needed. A simple x-ray and fecal exam should give us the next clues we need in this puzzle. You'll have to be firm here. Some of them are good sales people and they can charge more money for more stuff. Others really do mean well, but they just don't know tortoises. There is no semester on tortoise biology and husbandry in vet school. They may learn how to spay and neuter dogs, but they don't learn diddly squat about tortoises in vet school, and most of the reference material they use is all old, out-dated, incorrect info anyway. The best place to learn good tortoise care is from people like Yvonne, and so many others here, that have been keeping lots of tortoises for lots of years. Anyhow, an x-ray will show if there is a large stone, blockage, or backed up constipation.

Due to all the fruit, I don't think we can completely rule out an upset tummy too. Sugary fruits play havoc with their intestinal flora and fauna. Glad those days are over for this tortoise.

FInally, I agree that something is wrong here. Sulcatas usually eat on day one and by day seven, this tortoise should be scaring you with the amount of food it is putting away. We will help you get this figured out.

Thank you so much for your very helpful response! You made a lot of good points that confirm many of my suspicions too. I have worked with many different exotic animals. When I was employed by a family owned educational zoo (but only mammals). I understand completely how frustrating vets can be. To me, advice from experienced people like you and Yvonne is worth at least as much as a theirs. If she doesn't start eating I will definitely take your advice for the x-rays. Thank you.

 

[Tom]

Thank you so much for your very helpful response! You made a lot of good points that confirm many of my suspicions too. I have worked with many different exotic animals. When I was employed by a family owned educational zoo (but only mammals). I understand completely how frustrating vets can be. To me, advice from experienced people like you and Yvonne is worth at least as much as a theirs. If she doesn't start eating I will definitely take your advice for the x-rays. Thank you.

I think you are past the point of waiting. After 2 or 3 days of not eating, given the factors here, its time for an x-ray.

 

[TurtisTime]

So here are some close ups of her face and shell. And pics of her inclosure.
I haven't been using the crate/cage because I still need to block the bars so she can't get stuck. I'm also working on filling the area with plants.

Ps. Excuse the orange dot on her leg. She got a bit of pumpkin purée on it.

 

[TurtisTime]

I think you are past the point of waiting. After 2 or 3 days of not eating, given the factors here, its time for an x-ray.

Ok thank you very much. I'll contact a vet and see if I can get her in next week if she doesn't eat by Monday. I posted more pics. Wondering if anyone can see something that I don't.

 

[Tom]

I see other animal cages bordering her pen. Are there other tortoise in those cages?

I also see some weeds and lots of little stones. Have you ID'd every weed and verified they are all safe?

Often when a tortoise is fed lots of grocery store foods or fruit, they will eat rocks the first chance they get. Indoor housing with lack of UV and the wrong diet will also contribute to this. I suspect its a mineral and/or fiber deficiency. Adding calcium sometimes makes it worse. Might this be the case with yours? If they eat enough gravel and rocks, it can cause an impaction, and symptoms would be similar to what you are seeing. This is one of the things and x-ray can confirm or deny.

 

[TurtisTime]

I see other animal cages bordering her pen. Are there other tortoise in those cages?

I also see some weeds and lots of little stones. Have you ID'd every weed and verified they are all safe?

Often when a tortoise is fed lots of grocery store foods or fruit, they will eat rocks the first chance they get. Indoor housing with lack of UV and the wrong diet will also contribute to this. I suspect its a mineral and/or fiber deficiency. Adding calcium sometimes makes it worse. Might this be the case with yours? If they eat enough gravel and rocks, it can cause an impaction, and symptoms would be similar to what you are seeing. This is one of the things and x-ray can confirm or deny.

The border that looks like animal pens is a fence to block her in. There are no other tortoises here. There are tree lizards that live out there though. Most of the weeds back there are pecan teee saplings. Some are random thins from our garden etc. I am pretty sure I've identified every single one and it is all fine.
I watch her like a hawk. I've never seen her show interest in rocks. But I have noticed she seems to touch her beak to the dirt. I wonder if she's nibbling the dirt?
I do really feel like she seems confused. She stares at the shadows of the trees and hides when they blow sometimes.
Does she look normal in the pics I posted?

 

[TurtisTime]

I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT
BLACKBERRY SEEDS

I just found that "long poo" she made the other day. Dried up outside. It is FULL of blackberry seeds. There was many more but they fell into the wind when I crumbled it open.

NO MORE FRUIT EVER THANK GOODNESS.

What can I do now?
I've been giving her veggie baths once a day. Squash or zucchini seem to be here favorites so I'm sticking to those now.
Anything else?

 

[Yvonne G]

Now that the backed up poop has come out, you should start to see a better appetite.

 

[TurtisTime]

Now that the backed up poop has come out, you should start to see a better appetite.

That poop was from two days ago and she still hasn't eaten. There must be more. I've been reading posts about mineral oil enema. Should I try this?

 

[TurtisTime]

She's been getting 2-3 soaks a day. If she doesn't poop in her bath tomorrow I'm contemplating doing a mineral oil injection into her cloaca. Any thoughts?

 

[daniellenc]

She's been getting 2-3 soaks a day. If she doesn't poop in her bath tomorrow I'm contemplating doing a mineral oil injection into her cloaca. Any thoughts?

I would not personally do that and leave that to a vet.

 

[TurtisTime]

After soaking for about two hours tonight she made another long poop! This one had a little less seeds but was even longer. Both were covered in mucus. Hoping she might eat tomorrow!

 

[katieandiggy]

She's been getting 2-3 soaks a day. If she doesn't poop in her bath tomorrow I'm contemplating doing a mineral oil injection into her cloaca. Any thoughts?

I really wouldn’t do that myself. It could end up making the situation worse if you are not 100% sure on what you are doing.
I think if by Monday you haven’t seen a drastic improvement, a vet is needed. A quick X-ray will confirm if she is indeed backed up and will put your mind at rest.

 

[daniellenc]

After soaking for about two hours tonight she made another long poop! This one had a little less seeds but was even longer. Both were covered in mucus. Hoping she might eat tomorrow!

Mucas is bad you need a vet now. In humans our intestines are covered in mucas to protect them. It’s also full of healthy bacteria to ward off infection. When a human is passing mucas it’s a sign of severe inflammation and infection and can cause death. It’s can also lead to bowl perforation. @Yvonne G or @Will are you around?