Worried: Orange Spot - Underside of shell

[charliek]

Hello there,

This is my first time posting, I'm from the U.K and the proud owner of 2 little Eastern Hermann Tortoises, less than a year old.

They've been doing great, eating well, sleeping appropriately, engaging in activities, being explorative and just being lively. I know they are still healthy and not showing any signs of illness in this sense. Eyes, nose, mouth, shell shape and toileting is all healthy too.

But, when bathing the little one I noticed a small orange imperfection that is slightly raised and looks like it could be sore but I am uncertain and wanted to seek advice from professionals and long-term Tortoise parents!

I'm really worried he's injured himself on a rock or burying, got shell rot or worse. The discolouration of the black I don't know if it's natural changes or signs of something more sinister. The site is right in the centre too so I'm extra worried.

I know it's not berries, fruit, or any coloured food as they don't eat those and I've bathed it several times. They are on a coco-coir mixed with a suitable coir soil substrate. 29-34 degrees celcius on average with regular misting but not in excess. Baths few times a week, they have calcium and cuttlefish, regular greens and the very occasional fruit, places to hide, climb, explore and dig etc.

Please play nice, I've never posted here before so if I've got anything wrong in the posting of this or somehow messed up their husbandry, go easy, I feel awful that this has happened and it's taking courage to put this out there!

Thanks so much for your help in advance. I can upload more or provide more answers if that helps.

 

[wellington]

If you are housing them together, you need to separate them ASAP
Humidity should be 80% for hatchings up to about 2-3 years old
Temps, basking 95-100F
All over 75-80F
Night 70F
These temps and humidity can be easily maintained in a closed chamber enclosure not an open top table
Hard to say what caused the wound. Check the enclosure for any sharp rocks, wood etc.
I would keep it clean daily and put some over the counter antibiotic cream on it
@Yvonne G may be able to help further

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

The orange spot looks like an injury from climbing, not a shell rot (neither bacterial nor fungial). General treatment recommendations were given above. You may also do a one time application of Betadine (povidon-iodine) before using antibiotic creme, but that's usually redundant.

Please, take seriously an advice to separate them. Tortoise pairs are never about friendship but about silent bullying and they do perfectly fine alone. Many species don't show open aggression and we misinterpret their behaviour.

 

[Yvonne G]

That's where the umbilical was attached to the yolk when the tortoise was in the egg. It should clear up and go away with time. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Raquel1978]

That's where the umbilical was attached to the yolk when the tortoise was in the egg. It should clear up and go away with time. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Welcome to the Forum!

Was going to say the same thing as my little Herman's who is 8 months has a similar mark also.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

That's where the umbilical was attached to the yolk when the tortoise was in the egg. It should clear up and go away with time. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Welcome to the Forum!

@Yvonne G Before I have only seen umbilical scars in the bottom half of the abdominal scutes. But on the photo the orange spot is right on the edge of abdominal and pectoral scutes. Is it a Hermann's thing or just happens sometimes?

Also, the jagged edges made me think it's a chipped plastron..

Also, why is it orange? Yellow plastron coloration with some pink hue from the blood vessels? It really looks like someone already applied some Betadine

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm a learner

 

[Markw84]

This is not the remnant of the yolk sac opening. That is in a different place and the tortoise is too old for that. That is an injury that scraped open the keratin at that seam.

Treat with antifungal cream and be sure there is nothing in the enclosure too abrasive or with hard, sharp edges.

 

[Yvonne G]

Thank you, Mark.

 

[zovick]

Hello there,

This is my first time posting, I'm from the U.K and the proud owner of 2 little Eastern Hermann Tortoises, less than a year old.

They've been doing great, eating well, sleeping appropriately, engaging in activities, being explorative and just being lively. I know they are still healthy and not showing any signs of illness in this sense. Eyes, nose, mouth, shell shape and toileting is all healthy too.
View attachment 369917
But, when bathing the little one I noticed a small orange imperfection that is slightly raised and looks like it could be sore but I am uncertain and wanted to seek advice from professionals and long-term Tortoise parents!

I'm really worried he's injured himself on a rock or burying, got shell rot or worse. The discolouration of the black I don't know if it's natural changes or signs of something more sinister. The site is right in the centre too so I'm extra worried.

I know it's not berries, fruit, or any coloured food as they don't eat those and I've bathed it several times. They are on a coco-coir mixed with a suitable coir soil substrate. 29-34 degrees celcius on average with regular misting but not in excess. Baths few times a week, they have calcium and cuttlefish, regular greens and the very occasional fruit, places to hide, climb, explore and dig etc.

Please play nice, I've never posted here before so if I've got anything wrong in the posting of this or somehow messed up their husbandry, go easy, I feel awful that this has happened and it's taking courage to put this out there!

Thanks so much for your help in advance. I can upload more or provide more answers if that helps.

When I zoom in on that picture, the area in question actually looks like a significant defect which extends into the underlying bone. In spite of what other have said, I would be more concerned than less concerned and would debride that area gently to expose healthy bone, then put antibiotic cream such as Neosporin on it until it heals which could take a couple of months or more as tortoises heal more slowly than mammals.

If you aren't comfortable debriding it yourself, take the animal to a good vet and let him/her do it for you.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

When I zoom in on that picture, the area in question actually looks like a significant defect which extends into the underlying bone. In spite of what other have said, I would be more concerned than less concerned and would debride that area gently to expose healthy bone, then put antibiotic cream such as Neosporin on it until it heals which could take a couple of months or more as tortoises heal more slowly than mammals.

If you aren't comfortable debriding it yourself, take the animal to a good vet and let him/her do it for you.

@zovick What can be the cause? Mechanical damage or something else? And why is it orange?

 

[zovick]

@zovick What can be the cause? Mechanical damage or something else? And why is it orange?

It is possible that bacteria got in between the scutes and the bone as the umbilical scar was healing and localized in this orange spot. As one can see, the scute keratin has been destroyed and there is an open defect. If nothing is done to stop the progress, the scutes around it may eventually slough off, IMHO.

Although Markw says this spot is not where the yolk sac was, it is pretty close to it and I believe it was caused from improper/incomplete healing of that scar.

I do not have an answer as to why it looks orange.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

It is possible that bacteria got in between the scutes and the bone as the umbilical scar was healing and localized in this orange spot. As one can see, the scute keratin has been destroyed and there is an open defect. If nothing is done to stop the progress, the scutes around it may eventually slough off, IMHO.

Although Markw says this spot is not where the yolk sac was, it is pretty close to it and I believe it was caused from improper/incomplete healing of that scar.

I do not have an answer as to why it looks orange.

Thank you!

 

[charliek]

Hello everyone, thank you very much for your responses and your expertise. We may err on the side of caution and take them to see a specialist vet to nip this in the bud, I am a first time tortoise owner, and many of these advisable treatments I wouldn't administer myself. I've not used any creams yet as I wanted to seek advice.

I thought about the yolk sac, but this is a new issue. What about the discolouration below the centre?

I will double check for hazards in the enclosure and consider separating them. We'd been advised that they need to be separated at sexual maturity, is this not the case? Thanks for the information guys.

 

[charliek]

It is possible that bacteria got in between the scutes and the bone as the umbilical scar was healing and localized in this orange spot. As one can see, the scute keratin has been destroyed and there is an open defect. If nothing is done to stop the progress, the scutes around it may eventually slough off, IMHO.

Although Markw says this spot is not where the yolk sac was, it is pretty close to it and I believe it was caused from improper/incomplete healing of that scar.

I do not have an answer as to why it looks orange.

This sounds very plausible, what does sloughing off mean?

 

[wellington]

Hello everyone, thank you very much for your responses and your expertise. We may err on the side of caution and take them to see a specialist vet to nip this in the bud, I am a first time tortoise owner, and many of these advisable treatments I wouldn't administer myself. I've not used any creams yet as I wanted to seek advice.

I thought about the yolk sac, but this is a new issue. What about the discolouration below the centre?

I will double check for hazards in the enclosure and consider separating them. We'd been advised that they need to be separated at sexual maturity, is this not the case? Thanks for the information guys.

Tortoises should never be kept in pairs! It is very stressful on them and one will bully the other. Bullying is not obvious to a novice. It's not always in your face bullying. Even if bullying hasn't started, the stress alone can cause illness or death. So why would you even want to chance it! The experience is here on this forum.

 

[zovick]

This sounds very plausible, what does sloughing off mean?

It means that the shield/scute will become detached from the shell and fall off.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

This sounds very plausible, what does sloughing off mean?

The dictionary definition is:
1. the cast-off skin of a snake
2. a mass of dead tissue separating from an ulcer
3. something that may be shed or cast off

In that context, I think it means that surrounding scutes will fall off revealing the bone.

I've found some articles, where orange color of the damaged area is mentioned as a sign of a bacterial infection. So a vet visit is necessary.

 

[charliek]

Tortoises should never be kept in pairs! It is very stressful on them and one will bully the other. Bullying is not obvious to a novice. It's not always in your face bullying. Even if bullying hasn't started, the stress alone can cause illness or death. So why would you even want to chance it! The experience is here on this forum.

My goodness, that is something we will address ASAP. This was advice from the people we purchased them from too, so that's a bit worrying...thanks for the heads up guys.

 

[charliek]

The dictionary definition is:
1. the cast-off skin of a snake
2. a mass of dead tissue separating from an ulcer
3. something that may be shed or cast off

In that context, I think it means that surrounding scutes will fall off revealing the bone.

I've found some articles, where orange color of the damaged area is mentioned as a sign of a bacterial infection. So a vet visit is necessary.

That doesn't sound healthy or like anything we want to happen! Thanks for the research on the orangeness, finding straight facts about it has been hard.

 

[wellington]

That doesn't sound healthy or like anything we want to happen! Thanks for the research on the orangeness, finding straight facts about it has been hard.

Always be cautious when doing a vet visit. Most vets have no clue about tortoises and usually does more damage than help.
Also be cautious comparing a snake or other reptile info with tortoises.