Would you rather buy from a chain store (petco,Petsmart) or a breeder?

[Tom]

Just a note for the purposes of this discussion: I don't have any problem with buying from a pet store, or with buying wild caught tortoises. There are lots of good valid reason to do either. MY problem is with financially rewarding the people who mistreat and don't properly care for these animals, or any other animals. If a pet shop, like my local Petco, is doing everything possible to care for these tortoises, feeding them right, soaking the new ones regularly, heating them correctly, damp substarte that they can burrow into, etc., I have no issue with buying a tortoise there and giving it a great home.

On a secondary note: I feel it important that every wild caught import should make it into a breeding program, and their offspring should be sold to reduce the demand for more wild caught ones. Even if a person just has one male, they can loan it to a friend or neighbor for breeding. (Assuming all animals are healthy and have been properly quarantined and vetted.) Or a person could have just a single male and female, housed separately, and put together periodically for breeding. If someone just wants a single pet and will not pursue breeding, a CB one is a FAR superior choice for many reasons.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

On this same topic, but a different view, I encourage the ignorant, non-tortoise general public to buy these tortoises for one simple reason...of the 9 russian tortoises I have in my care, all but one was a rescue made possible by that very group of people. Also, my male pancake was a rescue that some misguided person thought would be a “fun" pet for their young child. Oh, and then 5 of my 6 sulcata are rescue/give a new home tortoises that were purchased under the same circumstances. So the break down of that all is, of the 17 tortoises I have in my care, 3 were deliberately purchased by knowledgeable folks. I would like to hand out cards to the people at petco or petsmart who purchase these tortoises that simply say, when you or your child loses interest or discover the reality of tortoise keeping, give me a call. I'll be happy to help you out and give it a good home...

 

[Tom]

Ahh. I see Ken. Lets reward the wrong-doers so YOU can have an ongoing source of free tortoises... You (insert inappropriate for the forum insulting name here_______)!!!




(Note to anyone reading: Ken and I are friends. If he said this to me in one of our phone conversations, I would call him a foul mouthed name.)

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Ahh. I see Ken. Lets reward the wrong-doers so YOU can have an ongoing source of free tortoises... You (insert inappropriate for the forum insulting name here_______)!!!




(Note to anyone reading: Ken and I are friends. If he said this to me in one of our phone conversations, I would call him a foul mouthed name.)

Tom? Tom who?

 

[Tom]

Tom? Tom who?

________________!!!!!!!!!

 

[lisa127]

Agree with Tom completely.
I do not patronize stores that sell puppies, at all. Ever. Won't walk in the door. If I need a pet store (rarely), I will drive 20 miles out of my way to go to one that does not sell pups, and have many times. I feel that strongly against puppy mills.
That usually involves finding a Petco or Petsmart. We now have a small new Petco within 6 miles, thankfully. And they do not sell torts. They do sell turtles, but they seem well cared for. I have never seen a tort for sale at any Petco/Petsmart around here. Lots of lizards though. And a few snakes.

Same here.

 

[Jacqui]

For me, I will buy any animal that appeals to me, no matter where it came from. A big thing I dislike about breeders is your normally getting a hatchling. Cute yes, but I really don't like raising hatchlings. I much rather have an adult. Plus breeders can and do also sell sick animals, so that is not a factor.

I do not see where making a tortoise who is there, in hand, suffer because of what a company may do in the future is not right in my book. I worry more about the one I can see and I can help save, not some maybe animal that may not exist. I also think many of those animals that are WC would other wise have ended up in the stew pot if not sold as pets. So for me, if I weigh saving those genes and that animal or it filling somebody's stomach directly (rather then the stomach filling from food bought with the money from selling the tortoise) I go with saving the animal.

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Why do you all believe that just by being a "breeder" makes the person be a good care giver??? Somebody brought up puppy mills well heck those ARE dog breeders. Not good ones, but still dog breeders. Same is true with tortoise breeders. Not all are good to their animals.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Jacqui makes a very good point here in regard to breeders.

 

[AnnV]

Re: RE: Would you rather buy from a chain store (petco,Petsmart) or a breeder?

For me, I will buy any animal that appeals to me, no matter where it came from. A big thing I dislike about breeders is your normally getting a hatchling. Cute yes, but I really don't like raising hatchlings. I much rather have an adult. Plus breeders can and do also sell sick animals, so that is not a factor.

I do not see where making a tortoise who is there, in hand, suffer because of what a company may do in the future is not right in my book. I worry more about the one I can see and I can help save, not some maybe animal that may not exist. I also think many of those animals that are WC would other wise have ended up in the stew pot if not sold as pets. So for me, if I weigh saving those genes and that animal or it filling somebody's stomach directly (rather then the stomach filling from food bought with the money from selling the tortoise) I go with saving the animal.

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Why do you all believe that just by being a "breeder" makes the person be a good care giver??? Somebody brought up puppy mills well heck those ARE dog breeders. Not good ones, but still dog breeders. Same is true with tortoise breeders. Not all are good to their animals.

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Sorry, I do not consider puppy mills in the same class as breeders. I would apply a name I would be censored for using.

But someone who makes no money from, and perhaps even spends more in a life time, on their beloved hobby and passion, might be separate from the ones who mass produce at the animals' expense, causing life long suffering of said animals, so they can make as much money as possible in their exploitation efforts. There is a lot of gray area, but sometimes an individual has to set their own standards and stick to what drives you most: head or heart.
The same could apply to torts and turtles.
You can choose to act on an individual basis, or look at the greater picture of who is doing what for the greater good of the animals.

 

[stinax182]

i will never buy a tortoise from a pet shop. either craigslist or a breeder for the reasons tom said. I'm the type of person who would rather rescue a mistreated tort than a baby but i cannot be part of rescuing one tort just so another can continue suffering. there are plenty of older, poorly taken care of torts on craigslist for those who have a savior complexes. not that i have much against pet stores, it's just a tortoise is not something a pet store can handle.

 

[Jacqui]

There is a lot of gray area, but sometimes an individual has to set their own standards and stick to what drives you most: head or heart.
The same could apply to torts and turtles.
You can choose to act on an individual basis, or look at the greater picture of who is doing what for the greater good of the animals.

I agree lots and lots of gray area and term usage. I tend to folow my heart over my head, but I make no excuses for that. I also tend to be the sort that will do what I can (individual animals) then do nothing (the big picture as some would look at it). I happen to believe in doing what I can and all that I can. I tend to look at individuals instead of entire species. I can not save the world, but I can save an indivual animal. It's a small step, but I do think it matters greatly. I just can not sit back and watch suffering and do nothing, others can. To each their own and in the end, doesn't it take both kinds?

 

[Yvonne G]

I used to buy turtles and tortoises many years ago. Haven't done it in a while...well, except for the SA leopards I recently bought from Tom and Ben. But I've got all I want now.

I bought from wholesalers in the L.A. area. I bought from pet stores. I bought from private parties. Didn't make any difference to me if they had the animal I wanted.

I'm more about education than personal conservation. There's not much I personally can do about conservation, but I do have great opportunities to educate.

 

[anm1221]

Wether it be a breeder or a pets store, we would all rather but a healthy animal, wether it be a tortoise or a cat or a snack or a lizard. Buying a healthy animal means less heartache as in watching the animal suffer, and or die. We all want to help wether in some way or another. Some people have a local pets store that is very well taken care of, the pets are always clean and properly cared for. And some of us have bad pet stores that don't properly care for the animals, and subsequently the animals end up sick. The same thing goes for breeders. Not all breeders/people who trade/ or tortoise owners are good ones. Wether it be a breeder or a store at the end of the day for sadly a lot of people it all comes down to the profit an money made from these animals. Yes some may call you a poor sap bc you see an animal in need and want to help wether you got the animal from a breeder or a pets store it doesn't change the Fact that there was an animal in trouble and needed help. Yes I understand that sometimes to help the animal you have to buy it which is unfortunate because all you're doing is rewarding bad "behavior" sometimes like another person on this thread said is some owners just realize they cannot properly care for a pet and seek to relocate it which is great! The pet is being thought of. Guys what I was trying to say at first was yes I know MOST of us pet owners are going to do our research and find a a reputable owner,breeder, or pet store and walk out with a perfectly healthy pet that we can't wait to take home and start giving that pet a good life but the same goes for the neglected animals. You are bound to run into one some time in your life, we all know there are plenty if bad people out there however sometimes no matter how much you tell yourself that it's a bad idea, tht you shouldn't because you know it's gonna be A heartache, you know it may end badly sometimes you still give in an want to help the animal and sometimes yes it may be rewarding the poor bastard who hurt the animal in the first place. But I guess we can't save them all, and we can only try our hardest to be good pet owners and citizens and do the right thing. All this makes me think of the pitbull owners and how they fight to make people understand that it's not the breed it's how you raise them and there are neglected animals out there. I dont know I'm starting to ramble here. But I guess you all get the point and all we can do is try to be responsible people and pet owners

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Wether it be a breeder or a pets store, we would all rather but a healthy animal, wether it be a tortoise or a cat or a snack or a lizard. Buying a healthy animal means less heartache as in watching the animal suffer, and or die. We all want to help wether in some way or another. Some people have a local pets store that is very well taken care of, the pets are always clean and properly cared for. And some of us have bad pet stores that don't properly care for the animals, and subsequently the animals end up sick. The same thing goes for breeders. Not all breeders/people who trade/ or tortoise owners are good ones. Wether it be a breeder or a store at the end of the day for sadly a lot of people it all comes down to the profit an money made from these animals. Yes some may call you a poor sap bc you see an animal in need and want to help wether you got the animal from a breeder or a pets store it doesn't change the Fact that there was an animal in trouble and needed help. Yes I understand that sometimes to help the animal you have to buy it which is unfortunate because all you're doing is rewarding bad "behavior" sometimes like another person on this thread said is some owners just realize they cannot properly care for a pet and seek to relocate it which is great! The pet is being thought of. Guys what I was trying to say at first was yes I know MOST of us pet owners are going to do our research and find a a reputable owner,breeder, or pet store and walk out with a perfectly healthy pet that we can't wait to take home and start giving that pet a good life but the same goes for the neglected animals. You are bound to run into one some time in your life, we all know there are plenty if bad people out there however sometimes no matter how much you tell yourself that it's a bad idea, tht you shouldn't because you know it's gonna be A heartache, you know it may end badly sometimes you still give in an want to help the animal and sometimes yes it may be rewarding the poor bastard who hurt the animal in the first place. But I guess we can't save them all, and we can only try our hardest to be good pet owners and citizens and do the right thing. All this makes me think of the pitbull owners and how they fight to make people understand that it's not the breed it's how you raise them and there are neglected animals out there. I dont know I'm starting to ramble here. But I guess you all get the point and all we can do is try to be responsible people and pet owners

Also if you see a pet store or animal owner that isn't doing so well don't just shake your head and walk away. Actually reach out and try to tell the owner or store that they are not properly caring for the animals. Try to help and I guess if no one listens and does nothing then report them anonymously so that something is done.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

I remembered another thing that was positive from my getting my Greeks at PetSmart and that is that I kept the associates informed every time I saw them. They asked how my little Greeksters were doing. Originally, they offered to take them back, but I did not chose that option. I told the associates about my research. I corrected them that they were babies. I showed them the Princess Alia Foundation pictures of how they are plucked from their homes and smuggled into Egypt to send to us. I educated them as I educated myself and a few I believe came to TFO, they might even be members now, so they can also be more informed. So every icky, has a possible positive. And every icky has a way to educate others. Pay it forward kind of thing. : )

 

[AnnV]

I think the Maya Angelou quote goes here: Once you know better, you do better.

 

[Raymo2477]

I work for petco and our tortoises at my location are well cared for and if you are in the market for a wild caught it is not a bad idea to buy one from a store that stands behind their animals rather than some guy selling the same wild caught at a show.

if you buy a wild caught even from a non chain store you are supporting the taking of animals out of the wild.

That being said I would only buy a tort from a breeder or adopt one for a rescue (though I have 8 now and the wife would kill me if another one showed up on the door step!).

 

[anm1221]

I remembered another thing that was positive from my getting my Greeks at PetSmart and that is that I kept the associates informed every time I saw them. They asked how my little Greeksters were doing. Originally, they offered to take them back, but I did not chose that option. I told the associates about my research. I corrected them that they were babies. I showed them the Princess Alia Foundation pictures of how they are plucked from their homes and smuggled into Egypt to send to us. I educated them as I educated myself and a few I believe came to TFO, they might even be members now, so they can also be more informed. So every icky, has a possible positive. And every icky has a way to educate others. Pay it forward kind of thing. : )

I Love this. A very nice thing and experience at the end of the day

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I work for petco and our tortoises at my location are well cared for and if you are in the market for a wild caught it is not a bad idea to buy one from a store that stands behind their animals rather than some guy selling the same wild caught at a show.

if you buy a wild caught even from a non chain store you are supporting the taking of animals out of the wild.

That being said I would only buy a tort from a breeder or adopt one for a rescue (though I have 8 now and the wife would kill me if another one showed up on the door step!).

Lol, my boyfriend is the same way. Tortoises, and turtles are my favorite animals ever. And I keep telling him that I want to get a tortoise. I am thinking about the Hermanns tortoise but I am still deciding and doing research and he's like no I'm like yes. I know how to build an enclosure and i ATLEAST want one I mean come on but he's still like no. Too bad cuz I'm gonna get one and he's gonna love it too.