You have got to be kidding me.....

[stardust11]

Ok guys I could really use some help. So I got a very small Leo about 3 months ago and he's been doing great. About a week ago I saw him blow a bubble out of his nose. I asked a breeder and they told me he may have an upper respiratory infection, that I should give him an extra heating pad and soak him twice a day in warm water. I did that and then today I can home and he was visibly worse. His eyes were really watery and he was rubbing them alot so I took him to the vet.

So....he has giarrdia (sorry I'm not sure how to spell it), an upper respiratory infection and a vitamin A deficiency. Yeah. So needless to say I have a bag full of medication I am supposed to give him orally...but his head is about the size of the tip of my pinky and I really don't know how I'm supposed to accomplish that. I had the vet try and show me and he couldn't even do it.

So I got online and read cantaloupe does well for this sort of situation so I stopped and got one. Jack isn't having any of it (he's never had fruit before).

Does anyone know a sure fire way to get the medicine down??????

Please help and feel free to PM me.

Thanks.

 

[lynnedit]

(Mods, should this go under Tortoise Health so more people see it?)

Don't know how to force feed something that tiny, but you can put the med in something like a bit of canned (not sweetened) pumpkin and wrap it in his favorite green. Even a couple of tiny pieces of chopped apple inside to tempt him (or not, since the cantaloupe was not successful).
Sounds like the antibiotic is by far the most important med to get down right now, next giardia med.

As far as vitamin A deficiency, that is a fairly common diagnosis, but sometimes over diagnosed. (How did the vet make this determination?)
However, these can be very beneficial, and help with nutrition when torts are ill: Try baby food soaks: carrots or sweet potato, say 1/2 jar in shallow warm water (warmer than cooler). You can squirt in some bird vitamins too.
Be sure to keep him on the warmer side until he is better.

 

[Floof]

+1 to the canned 100% pumpkin suggestion. Mix the meds into a small amount of the canned pumpkin (no more than you KNOW he will eat). From there you can, as Lynne suggested, wrap it in a leaf, or set it on a leaf or even just set it on a clean surface like a plastic plate or something.

 

[Tom]

First and foremost fix the problems. Where did he pick up giardia? Got to eliminate the source to avoid reinfection. Second, what are your temps? Warm side, cool side, basking and night? They usually get RIs from being too cool and they don't happen over night. Warm things up either way during treatment and it will usually help them get well sooner. No sense treating the symptoms if the problem that caused them is still there.

To get the meds down you'll need to get a small tube feeding syringe from your vet. You've gotta hold the head, stick the tube far enough down the throat and shoot the meds in. You need someone who has done it before to show you how to do it. If your vet doesn't know this, its time for a new vet.

 

[stardust11]

(Mods, should this go under Tortoise Health so more people see it?)

Don't know how to force feed something that tiny, but you can put the med in something like a bit of canned (not sweetened) pumpkin and wrap it in his favorite green. Even a couple of tiny pieces of chopped apple inside to tempt him (or not, since the cantaloupe was not successful).
Sounds like the antibiotic is by far the most important med to get down right now, next giardia med.

As far as vitamin A deficiency, that is a fairly common diagnosis, but sometimes over diagnosed. (How did the vet make this determination?)
However, these can be very beneficial, and help with nutrition when torts are ill: Try baby food soaks: carrots or sweet potato, say 1/2 jar in shallow warm water (warmer than cooler). You can squirt in some bird vitamins too.
Be sure to keep him on the warmer side until he is better.

Great idea...thanks a bunch


I did think the vitamin deficiency was a bit strange because I do supplement

---

First and foremost fix the problems. Where did he pick up giardia? Got to eliminate the source to avoid reinfection. Second, what are your temps? Warm side, cool side, basking and night? They usually get RIs from being too cool and they don't happen over night. Warm things up either way during treatment and it will usually help them get well sooner. No sense treating the symptoms if the problem that caused them is still there.

To get the meds down you'll need to get a small tube feeding syringe from your vet. You've gotta hold the head, stick the tube far enough down the throat and shoot the meds in. You need someone who has done it before to show you how to do it. If your vet doesn't know this, its time for a new vet.

I do not know where he picked up the giardia and the vet did not have an explanation for me. He is the only tort I have. I keep his table clean and he has a patch of grass he grazes in the front yard where the dogs do not go to the bathroom (they go in the backyard). Trust me I am not pleased with this vet...he is not my normal guy. I only took Jack there because I was so concerned and my normal vet was closed.

As far as his temps he has 100 watt mercury vapor bulb in one corner of his table about 7 inches up and a heating pad on the side of his hide which is on the other side of his table from the light.

 

[ascott]

I know some will not agree with me on this part but if it were me dealing with a young tort I would first lower the humidity a bit to around 40....I would be sure to maintain a minimum temp of 80-85 day/night and continue to maintain the basking spot as usual.....

I would also find what you know to be his fav food/yummy and try to disguise the antibiotic in the treat to make sure it is taken in with one or two bites....you would have a better idea of what the favs are.

Also, the warm baby food soaks are a good thing to try....vitamin a deficiency if it is indeed present..can be easily resolved by food offerings high in vitamin a....is your tort eating as regular still?

 

[Tom]

I do not know where he picked up the giardia and the vet did not have an explanation for me. He is the only tort I have. I keep his table clean and he has a patch of grass he grazes in the front yard where the dogs do not go to the bathroom (they go in the backyard). Trust me I am not pleased with this vet...he is not my normal guy. I only took Jack there because I was so concerned and my normal vet was closed.

As far as his temps he has 100 watt mercury vapor bulb in one corner of his table about 7 inches up and a heating pad on the side of his hide which is on the other side of his table from the light.

I too find the giarida diagnosis odd. It just seems unlikely, but still, it is possible.

7" is extremely close for a 100 watt bulb. Do you know your four temps?

Does your tortoise hang out on one side or the other the majority of the time?

 

[dmmj]

I moved this to the health section since it is not really a debate topic. Normally forcing a tortoise to take his meds is difficult for first timers but not impossible. Considering his size though I don't think even I would try it. Did the vet offer another option to give meds, I know when I received a female russian in horrible shape I was given antibiotic nose drops. Did the vet say it was ok to give the meds with food? I usually don't disagree with vet's diagnosis but vitmain A deficient is often misdiagnosed but usually easily treatable with baby food or bird vitamin soaks.

 

[stardust11]

I know some will not agree with me on this part but if it were me dealing with a young tort I would first lower the humidity a bit to around 40....I would be sure to maintain a minimum temp of 80-85 day/night and continue to maintain the basking spot as usual.....

I would also find what you know to be his fav food/yummy and try to disguise the antibiotic in the treat to make sure it is taken in with one or two bites....you would have a better idea of what the favs are.

Also, the warm baby food soaks are a good thing to try....vitamin a deficiency if it is indeed present..can be easily resolved by food offerings high in vitamin a....is your tort eating as regular still?

Yes he was eating normal until today.....

Also can you please give me some pointers on the above mentioned humidity and temperature references (i.e. how to maintain them)?

I don't want to sound completely ignorant here but I have to admit I feel like you know something I don't. I did nearly a years worth of research before purchasing Jack but maybe I was looking in all the wrong places because I have done everything I read and was told to a T.

I do appreciate your response.

---

I do not know where he picked up the giardia and the vet did not have an explanation for me. He is the only tort I have. I keep his table clean and he has a patch of grass he grazes in the front yard where the dogs do not go to the bathroom (they go in the backyard). Trust me I am not pleased with this vet...he is not my normal guy. I only took Jack there because I was so concerned and my normal vet was closed.

As far as his temps he has 100 watt mercury vapor bulb in one corner of his table about 7 inches up and a heating pad on the side of his hide which is on the other side of his table from the light.

I too find the giarida diagnosis odd. It just seems unlikely, but still, it is possible.

7" is extremely close for a 100 watt bulb. Do you know your four temps?

Does your tortoise hang out on one side or the other the majority of the time?

Well allow me to retort.....no pun intended

7" is the answer I got when I believe I posted the question on this site but I may be mistaken and it may have been the breeder I got him from that recommended that.

Yes he tends to hang out directly below the light 80% of the time..the other 20 in his hollow half log. When I first got him he used to go sleep in his hide at night but quit doing that weeks ago.....until tonight.

I hope I'm not coming off as rude or short but I just am sooooo frustrated. I really pride myself in the care of all my animals and feel like a miserable failure right now.

 

[ascott]

He can pic up the parasite/Giardia from other tortoise feces as well as bird feces....not all strains can cross species, but some certainly can...if he is stressed it can bring on a weak immune system which then can not fight off the parasite the way he would in a healthier state....it is most important to offer the antibiotic and get him to take it...Giardia can cause infection to manifests in other areas....so the fact that he has Giardia and a RI is not so weird...

What are the meds given to you? What are the names of the meds?

 

[stardust11]

I moved this to the health section since it is not really a debate topic. Normally forcing a tortoise to take his meds is difficult for first timers but not impossible. Considering his size though I don't think even I would try it. Did the vet offer another option to give meds, I know when I received a female russian in horrible shape I was given antibiotic nose drops. Did the vet say it was ok to give the meds with food? I usually don't disagree with vet's diagnosis but vitmain A deficient is often misdiagnosed but usually easily treatable with baby food or bird vitamin soaks.

No he did not have another option for me. He gave him a shot of antibiotics while we were there then gave me to take home.....

2 doses of medicine for the giardia to be given 14 days apart orally

eye drops for the upper respiratory infection to be given one drop in each eye every 6 hours

straight vitamin A drops to be given orally twice a week

two doses of a seperate dewormer (panacur) to be given 14 days apart

and something called baytril to be given orally once a day, a separate antibiotic

 

[lynnedit]

Do NOT feel like a failure. Hatchlings are hard to raise.
You are here looking for help, and open to suggestions. That is what is important. Focus on the task at hand and get your tort better if you can.

Note carefully temp advice from Angela and Tom. Get a good digital thermometer with a probe (if you don't have one).
Keep your temps at 80 or above.
Most MVB's should be no closer than 12" to the tort shell, but check your box. If you make this adjustment and temps are too low, and you need to get the heat up more in your enclosure, add a CHE in the appropriate fixture.

Do the baby food/bird vit soaks in warm water daily.

Work on getting the med in, first by trying the canned pumpkin wrapped in a green. A good reptile vet should be able to help you administer the med if this does not work.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[stardust11]

He can pic up the parasite/Giardia from other tortoise feces as well as bird feces....not all strains can cross species, but some certainly can...if he is stressed it can bring on a weak immune system which then can not fight off the parasite the way he would in a healthier state....it is most important to offer the antibiotic and get him to take it...Giardia can cause infection to manifests in other areas....so the fact that he has Giardia and a RI is not so weird...

What are the meds given to you? What are the names of the meds?

2 doses of medicine for the giardia to be given 14 days apart orally

eye drops for the upper respiratory infection to be given one drop in each eye every 6 hours

straight vitamin A drops to be given orally twice a week

two doses of a seperate dewormer (panacur) to be given 14 days apart

and something called baytril to be given orally once a day, a separate antibiotic

---

Do NOT feel like a failure. Hatchlings are hard to raise.
You are here looking for help, and open to suggestions. That is what is important. Focus on the task at hand and get your tort better if you can.

Note carefully temp advice from Angela and Tom. Get a good digital thermometer with a probe (if you don't have one).
Keep your temps at 80 or above.
Most MVB's should be no closer than 12" to the tort shell, but check your box. If you make this adjustment and temps are too low, and you need to get the heat up more in your enclosure, add a CHE in the appropriate fixture.

Do the baby food/bird vit soaks in warm water daily.

Work on getting the med in, first by trying the canned pumpkin wrapped in a green. A good reptile vet should be able to help you administer the med if this does not work.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Thank you and I will

 

[ascott]

So the vet gave him an antibiotic shot? If that is the case then I would ask the vet why you are not able to do the same? Baytril is a really strong antibiotic ..which is likely for the RI and any potential underlying infection to other organs in the tortoise due to the Giardia....I know that shots sound scary but it is one sure fire way to get that antibiotic in to allow it to do its job....you can have the vet show you how to do it(usually given in the front between the neck and front arm in that little soft skin spot...BUT do it only of you can separate feeling bad for the pain of the shot and the good it will do, you know? Your vet should be willing to do the shot for you each time (as this is their diagnosed treatment) and if the vet is any good they should not charge you for doing it...but make sure with baytril that you absolutely soak your tort every single day..as baytril can be taxing on their kidneys...so you want to make sure he has plenty of water intake... this med will also cause loss of appetite in some torts...although my old man CDT ate like a champ all the way through his fourteen day baytril treatment..however he is an adult and less sensitive about change as compared to a youngster....

I have never administered the panacur dewormer..but it will also likely cause loss of appetite as it is essentially a med that poisons the parasites and so likely causes some ill feeling in the torts stomach....

So...now that it feels like a lot on your and your torts plate...you can totally do it...pull out an old fashion calendar and write in what meds need to be done on what days and just set it all out and go down your calendar with your treatment schedule...you so can do it....soaking will be your little torts only feel good moment over the next two weeks....

When I had to treat the old man here...after I would torture him...I would soak him for like an hour (he loves soaking,thank goodness) and then I would get a big fluffy towel...wrap him in it out of the soak and set him on my lap and would hub sit and watch a show and gently rub his shell and whichever poor leg got the shot...this seemed to warm and relax him...silly, but therapeutic for us both..lol..

 

[Laura]

what type of light are you using? coil? you said he was rubbing his eyes....
its all overwhleming when you have a sick one.. .. one day at a time...

 

[DesertGrandma]

Be sure to check your water source for your tort and yourself. I personally got giarrdia once and the doctor said it was from drinking unclean water (streams or otherwise) that had been defecated in by cows. In my case, the county water supply was contaminated. It is highly contagious and can be spread quite easily.

 

[lynnedit]

How is your little guy doing? Were you able to get the med in him?

 

[ascott]

*toe tapping, hands resting on hips...waiting impatiently for update* tap tap tap..

 

[stardust11]

How is your little guy doing? Were you able to get the med in him?

Hi Guys! Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, this last week has been crazy but I'm very pleased to say Capn Jack seems to be doing great!

Thank you soooo much for the pumpkin recommendation...it worked like a charm. Although he did not eat all of it the first day I adjusted the amount the next and I'm sure he is getting the majority down. I have not seen any more bubbles come out of his nose and I've been watching like a hawk. Also his eyes are back to normal...nice and clear. Not watery like they were.

Thanks to all for the quick responses and concern...you guys were life savers!

 

[ascott]

Yaaaaay!