The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

[randomdemon]

There are an infinite variety of these set ups, so your question is impossible to answer.

Ventilation is what removes the warm humid air we are trying to create, replacing it with colder drier room air. We want to minimize ventilation, but most enclosures have vents built in on the sides or backs or both. None of these enclosures are air tight. None of these enclosure will cause suffocation.

The best analogy I have found is this: Trying to heat and humidify an open topped enclosure is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof on it. It can't work. Its just physics. Don't you close up your doors and windows on a cold winter night? What venting is in your house? You don't suffocate because just like these types of enclosures, there is ample air movement in and out, even though we minimize it to keep the house warm in winter, or in my case here in summer time, I keep my house closed up to keep the AC in and the 37C heat out.

The idea behind a closed chamber is to greatly reduce the circulation of room air which is the wrong temperature and humidity, with our enclosure air. Some venting is fine, but not too much. Your thermometer and hygrometer will be your best guide. If you are having trouble maintaining the correct temperatures or your humidity is too low, you can reduce the ventilation some. If its getting too hot and humid, you can use a lower wattage bulb, or increase ventilation a bit. Every enclosure requires some "adjusting" to get things just right, and in most cases, seasonal adjustment is necessary too.

Thank you Tom

Where I live in the UK the current temperature and humidity are not far short of your recommendations and although the temperature does fluctuate, it is always very humid, or 'muggy' as we brits like to whinge about. I was previously keeping the enclose at just over 80% with the top panel open (it is a glass top so can be closed) with no issues at all but the tort seems to become very lethargic when I close it and the humidity rises. (Temp is on a thermostat so that remains the same either way.)

Unfortunately he was sold to me with the 'desert tortoise, low humidity, advice which I fully believed as I've seen nothing to contradict this in over a year of research over here, speaking with other owners, vets, 'specialists' and some internet research. A number of people advised up to 80% humidity for babies, which is what I had prepared for and had a custom built adaptable enclose made to house him so I'm lucky in that respect as it can easily maintain your recommendedations but tort doesn't seem as happy? Could it be because it's such a drastic change for him? Should I maybe build up to higher humidity or is keeping him around 80% OK? He just becomes very lethargic but stays in the hotter end right under the bulb. When I open the top he becomes more active again.

 

[Tom]

Thank you Tom

Where I live in the UK the current temperature and humidity are not far short of your recommendations and although the temperature does fluctuate, it is always very humid, or 'muggy' as we brits like to whinge about. I was previously keeping the enclose at just over 80% with the top panel open (it is a glass top so can be closed) with no issues at all but the tort seems to become very lethargic when I close it and the humidity rises. (Temp is on a thermostat so that remains the same either way.)

Unfortunately he was sold to me with the 'desert tortoise, low humidity, advice which I fully believed as I've seen nothing to contradict this in over a year of research over here, speaking with other owners, vets, 'specialists' and some internet research. A number of people advised up to 80% humidity for babies, which is what I had prepared for and had a custom built adaptable enclose made to house him so I'm lucky in that respect as it can easily maintain your recommendedations but tort doesn't seem as happy? Could it be because it's such a drastic change for him? Should I maybe build up to higher humidity or is keeping him around 80% OK? He just becomes very lethargic but stays in the hotter end right under the bulb. When I open the top he becomes more active again.

Sulcata, right? Keep humidity over 80% all the time. This species hatches at the start of the hot, wet, humid, rainy, monsoon season in the wild. According to the man who lives there and studies them in the wild, the humidity there makes Miami humidity seem comfortable.

In most cases activity and appetite increase greatly when they are moved to the correct conditions. Sometimes too much damage has been done by the incorrect overly- dry conditions and they are too far gone. I hope that is not the case with your tortoise. Soak daily. Keep it warm and humid.

 

[randomdemon]

Sulcata, right? Keep humidity over 80% all the time. This species hatches at the start of the hot, wet, humid, rainy, monsoon season in the wild. According to the man who lives there and studies them in the wild, the humidity there makes Miami humidity seem comfortable.

In most cases activity and appetite increase greatly when they are moved to the correct conditions. Sometimes too much damage has been done by the incorrect overly- dry conditions and they are too far gone. I hope that is not the case with your tortoise. Soak daily. Keep it warm and humid.

Thank you, I am doing exactly this and will keep the enclosure closed, thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. Hopefully he/she will be OK, I will do my very best. He is really enjoying the grass/weed/mazuri mixture I have made for him after the advice I received yesterday and seems a little more mischievous today so remaining hopeful.

 

[Tom]

Thank you, I am doing exactly this and will keep the enclosure closed, thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. Hopefully he/she will be OK, I will do my very best. He is really enjoying the grass/weed/mazuri mixture I have made for him after the advice I received yesterday and seems a little more mischievous today so remaining hopeful.

How much does the baby weigh in grams?

 

[Suejune]

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species.

Babies hatch during the start of the rainy season. It is hot, very humid, rainy, and marshy in some areas. There are puddles and lush green growing food everywhere. In some areas there is a dry season, but the hot monsoon season is when babies hatch, and babies find humid microclimates to hide in during drier times. In extreme conditions they aestivate and don't eat or grow at all when its hot and dry. Keeping your hatchling in a dry, desert-like enclosure, is a big mistake and an invitation to disaster. It is also very un-natural for these animals. Damp substrate, a water bowl, and a humid hide should all be pre-requisites. Along with this, warm temps day and night are necessary. Sulcatas, leopards and stars are NOT prone to shell rot at all, and they do not get respiratory infections in these damp conditions as long as temps are kept up. I shoot for no lower than 80 degrees day or night year round, and all three of these heat loving species do well with a day time ambient approaching 90 degrees. Humidity is at 80+% all the time. Most people keep them too cool and too dry. Adults can tolerate colder temps and drier conditions in some circumstances, but this care sheet is for hatchlings and babies and is aimed at helping them thrive, not just survive. I know the books, the breeders and the "experts" all say the opposite of this. They are wrong. They've been wrong for 30 years. For 20 of those years I was wrong right along with them. Some of us have learned and advanced. Some have not. Keep this in mind when consulting a vet, or a potential breeder or seller that you want to buy from. As soon as they contradict this info and tell you "this is a desert species", you will know NOT to buy from them.

Some General Notes:

• Set up your enclosure, run it, check it and make adjustments BEFORE you bring home a new tortoise. Babies are easy if the set up is correct. Babies aren't delicate or difficult. When babies are not started correctly is when people have problems with them. Babies have a smaller margin of error due to their smaller body mass, if you've made mistakes, or if the enclosure and equipment isn't already set up and at the right temperatures.
• You won't find most of what you need to set up a tortoise at a pet store. What you will find is expensive stuff that is bad for your tortoise and lots of bad advice. This is true even at most reptile specialty places. Where to get tortoise supplies then? The hardware store or large department stores. There are a few exceptions like reptile thermostats, some reptile heating elements, and UV tubes. I get these from on-line sellers.
• If you are going the the grocery store to buy tortoise food, you are feeding the wrong stuff. If you have no other choice but to use grocery store food due to your climate and weather for part of the year, it will need to be amended to make it more suitable as tortoise food. More on this later.
• It is my hope that this care sheet finds you BEFORE you buy a tortoise. Most breeders start their babies too dry. The end result is stunting, pyramiding and sometimes death weeks or months later. Don't get a baby from someone who starts them dry, on dry substrate, outdoors all day, and doesn't soak daily.
• Some common mistakes to avoid, with more explanation later: Buying from the wrong (dry) source, getting advice and products from a pet store, free roaming indoors or out, feeding a diet of mostly grocery store foods without amendments, not soaking daily, cool temps, wrong UV bulbs, wrong basking bulbs, letting dogs around your tortoise, small enclosures, open topped enclosures, sand or soil substrates, bad vet care or advice, too much outside time for little babies, keeping a pair of tortoises in the same enclosure...

Heating And Lighting:
I use a 45-65 watt incandescent flood bulb on a 12 hour timer and adjust the height of the fixture to get a basking area of around 95-100 directly under the bulb. In some closed chambers I go with lower wattage bulbs. This depends on many factors and no one can tell you exactly what wattage you will need in your enclosure. Let your thermometer be your guide. I use a ceramic heating element or a radiant heat panel set to 80 degrees on a reptile thermostat to maintain my ambient temperature in the enclosure. The basking lamp should raise the day time ambient temperature into the high 80s or low 90s. Ambient should be no lower than 80, but drifting up to 90 during the heat of the day is good. The thermostat will keep your CHE or RHP off during these times, but ready to click on after the basking lamp clicks off and the ambient temperature starts to drop at night. I use LED bulbs when I want to brighten up the whole enclosure and I run these on the same timer as the basking bulb. There are other ways to do some of this, but trial and error have shown time and time again, that the above is what works the best. Don't use "spot" bulbs, reptile specialty bulbs, halogen bulbs, any cfl, or mercury vapor bulbs. You want a plain old, regular incandescent flood bulb from the hardware store. I buy them in six or twelve packs, so I always have extras on hand. They always go out at the most inopportune times.

UV:
Tortoises need regular exposure to the right kind of UV rays in order to make vitamin D2 into D3 to be able to utilize dietary calcium. Real sunshine is best, but be careful. Shade should always be available as babies can overheat and die surprisingly quickly. If your tortoise can get some regular sunning time in a safe outdoor enclosure, even just a couple of times a week for most of the year, you don't need any artificial UV. Its okay if you have to skip two or three weeks of sunning time during a cold winter spell. If you live somewhere with long frozen winters, then some artificial UV might be in order for that time of year. I no longer recommend mercury vapor bulbs for several reasons, but florescent HO (High Output) UV tubes work very well according to my UV meter. CFL type UV bulbs are ineffective as UV sources and sometime burn reptile eyes. No type of compact florescent bulb should be used over a tortoise. Also get yourself a Solarmeter 6.5. Without a UV meter, you are guessing about the UV levels in your enclosure, no different than guessing the temperature without a thermometer. At least without a thermometer you can still feel the temperature with your hand. You can't feel UV levels. These meters pay for themselves in short order since you won't be replacing perfectly good working bulbs every six months, as the sellers recommend.

Too much outside time is bad for babies. It slows their growth tremendously and causes pyramiding. I've done many side-by-side experiments with clutch mates over the years to determine this fact. My general rule is an hour of access to sunshine per inch of tortoise. Once they reach around 5 inches, outside all day is fine, weather permitting, but soak daily and continue to let them sleep in their humid closed chamber every night until they get a bit bigger.

The Enclosure:
I have not been able to make any open topped enclosure work to my satisfaction. Low sided open topped enclosures like tortoise tables and sweater boxes are the worst. No amount of covering, or attempts to slow heat and humidity loss have worked well for me. There is just no way to keep the warm humid air where you want it. Closed chambers are the way to go. Maintaining whatever temperature and humidity you want is easy and efficient in a closed chamber. They use a lot less electricity because all of your heat and humidity is contained with nowhere to go. It also makes maintaining warm night temps a snap. Open tops allow all your warm humid air to escape up and into the room where your enclosure sits. Even if you cover most of the top, the heat lamps create a chimney effect and draw your heat and humidity up and out. Having the heat lamps outside, or on top of, the enclosure also lets the majority of the electrically generated heat you are creating float up up and away. A closed chamber contains all the heat and humidity. It works best if all the heating and lighting equipment is INSIDE the enclosure with the tortoise. Any other way is a compromise and less than ideal. Maintaining a small open topped box at 80 degrees with 80% humidity in a regular sized room that is 70 degrees and 20% humidity is VERY difficult, if not impossible in a practical sense. A closed chamber makes it easy.
Here are pictures of the plain basic closed chambers that I use to start babies:
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You can make it much more fancy and add plants and decorations if you want. I'm going for simplicity and I spend time making their outdoor enclosures more fantastic. When done correctly, your baby will only be in this enclosure for a year or two, and then it will be time to move outside full time with a heated night box, or get much larger indoor accommodations if this is what your climate dictates.

What if you already bought a glass tank or wooden tortoise enclosure? How can you make that one work? You really can't. Covering the top and trying to contain the heat and humidity is better than nothing, but the sooner you resign yourself to buying or building the right kind of enclosure, the sooner you and your tortoise will reap the benefits. Almost everyone gets bad info from the breeder, pet store, vets, and all over the internet. I'm sorry this happens and sorry you bought all the wrong stuff, but it helps no one when a person keeps trying to jam that square peg into a round hole. Think it over, take a deep breath, and just go get the correct stuff now that you know. I encourage people to return the items to the pet shop and tell them why. Eventually they will learn and stop selling dangerous, bad, and useless items to people.

You need to know, and periodically adjust your temperatures. You need to regularly check warm side, cool side, basking spot and night temps, and adjust as needed. Every enclosure is different and they even change with the seasons in most households. It is not enough to screw a bulb in and walk away. Check those temps, and make adjustments, preferably BEFORE the baby even comes home. I like to use an infrared temp gun AND digital thermometers for this purpose. Check your temps early and often.

Enclosure Size:
Simply put: The bigger the better. I start babies in a 30x48 inch closed chamber. As a minimum, I would suggest no smaller than 36"x18" for a tiny hatchling, but you'll need to upgrade quickly. They need room to roam around. Once you put in the food and water bowls, the humid hide, and any decorations or potted plants, there is hardly any room left over to walk. Tortoises do not tend to do as well as some other types of reptiles when stuffed into small enclosures. They need room to roam inside their safe heated enclosures, and the floor is not a safe option. Don't think that you'll use a smaller enclosure, and just let Sheldon out to roam the floor for some exercise. This almost always ends in disaster. Its bad for your tortoise and impaction, sickness, injury, or death is the usual result. "But, but, but... I make it safe and supervise closely..." says every person until the day that disaster eventually strikes and they realize they were wrong. Its a terrible sickening feeling to hold a dead tortoise in your hand. Don't put yourself through this. Make a large enclosure. Don't have room for a large enclosure? Get a different pet that can live in a smaller enclosure that you have room for. Tortoises aren't good pets for everyone. For a sulcata, even 4x8' is only going to last a year or two. You might get three years with it for a star, leopard or slower growing sulcata, but that is optimistic. Outdoor enclosures can be even larger. Babies will NOT get lost or overwhelmed in 10x10 foot enclosure. In the wild they roam far greater distances than that.

Humid Hide Boxes:
This offers the tortoise a more humid place to retreat to and sleep and can simulate some of the more damp micro-climates they might utilize in the wild. It is as simple as getting a $2 black dishwashing tub from Walmart, flipping it upside down and cutting out a small door hole. I keep the substrate under the tub more damp than the surrounding substrate and it works great. You can also use plastic shoe boxes. Sphagnum moss is unnecessary and potentially dangerous since they eat it, and it can cause an impaction. The humid hide is a very important detail that should not be overlooked. Half logs and flower pots on their sides do not work. They are not closed in enough.

Substrate:
There are only three viable options. Coco coir, orchid bark, and cypress mulch. All of these can be purchased in bulk at most hardware or garden center stores at a tremendous savings. I don't like coco coir for these species because its too messy. I don't like cypress mulch because the pieces aren't uniform, some pieces are too big or too sharp, and because it smells like the swamp that is came from. If these two are all you can find, then go ahead and use them. They are safe and suitable. Fine grade orchid bark works the best. Its cheap, easy, holds moisture well, doesn't stink, easy to clean, easy for babies to walk on, not an ingestion hazard, etc... I recommend against any store bought soil, "Pets At Home" reptile bedding with the little white limestone bits in it, wood shavings or chips, ground walnut shell, corn cob bedding, rabbit pellets, compressed grass pellet bedding, newspaper pellets, hay, cedar, or any amount of sand. None of those are safe or suitable for an indoor tortoise enclosure.

Water Dishes:
Plain old terra cotta plant saucers work best. They come in a variety of sizes to suit any size tortoise, they offer good traction to little wet tortoise feet, they have low sides, they are cheap so you can buy extras, and they are shallow so your tortoise won't drown if it happens to flip over and land upside down in the water bowl. Sink the bowl into the substrate for best results. I prefer to give babies two water bowls. Do NOT use the typical ramped pet store bowls. These are great for snakes and lizards, but they can literally be death traps for tortoises. Clean your terra cotta saucer as often as needed. The more they track food and substrate into it, and the more they poop in it, the better. This means they are comfortable using their bowl, and that is great news. Just rinse and refill as many times a day as you need to. A water bowl that stays clean and untouched all day is a water bowl that is not being used for one reason or another. This is a bad sign, and it means your tortoise is one step closer to dehydration.

Soaking:
I recommend ALL hatchlings of ALL species be soaked in 85-95 degree water for at least 20-30 minutes every day. I use a tall sided opaque tub and keep the water depth about a third to half way up the body. If you have a humid enclosure with a humid hide and a water bowl, it is totally fine to skip a day here and there. Soaking only once a week and using a dry enclosure is not enough in my opinion, and I would not buy a hatchling that had been started that way. Once the tortoise gets to about 100 grams, I start skipping a day now and then. I gradually taper it down as they gain size. How often I soak older tortoises depends on a lot of factors, the current weather and season being two big ones. I soak more often when its hot and dry. If you live in a warm, humid, rainy climate, and your tortoise is exposed to these conditions, soaking less often is probably fine, but it still wont hurt anything to do it. You cannot soak too much or for too long. Soaking does not do any harm whatsoever. It doesn't make them poop too much and not digest their food, it doesn't upset their "water balance", whatever that is, it doesn't give them shell rot or respiratory infections, and it is NOT unnatural in any way. "But, but, but... Who soaks them every day in nature???" These babies hatch at the start of the RAINY season in the wild. Its raining on them frequently, and puddles form all over the place. Keep the soak water warm for the entire soak. If you are in a hurry, 10 minutes is enough. If you are forgetful or get distracted, an hour will do no harm.

Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.

Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems to help those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a year.

Outdoor Enclosures:
This is a MUST in my opinion. Tortoises are solar powered, need lots of walking room, and benefit greatly from some time in the great outdoors. With hatchlings I start with short excursions of only an hour a day, followed by a soak on the way in. As they gain size, I like to leave them out longer and longer each day, weather permitting, until they eventually live outside full time with a heated night box of some sort, where climate allows. Outside time must be done with great care as there are many dangers. They can overheat, be eaten or mauled, or escape. Here is one simple idea. A large kiddie pool or horse watering trough could also work. If you don't have a suitable grassy area, you can put a plywood bottom on this with wheels and legs, and move it around. Do NOT let your baby roam free outside. You will lose it eventually, and you'll be unable to explain how it happened so fast when you were watching so carefully. Its a sickening feeling. Don't put yourself through this. Use an enclosure and make it large. Also, if you have a dog, or people who come to visit bring a dog, your tortoise is in grave danger. Be careful. EVERY dog will chew up a tortoise. It doesn't matter how nice and loving a dog it is. Tortoises are seen as chew toys by dogs. Don't let this happen to your tortoise. Physically prevent it with fencing and/or correct housing. Don't leave it to chance. It is a horrible sickening feeling holding a mauled tortoise in your hands. Don't put yourself through this.
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Pyramiding:
This is the subject of many threads in itself. I will simply state here what I know to be true based on my experience, my experiments, conversations with people who live other countries and study tortoises, people who have kept them for decades here in the U.S., and personal observations of thousands of tortoises in all manners of keeping styles.

There are many things listed as causes of pyramiding. I can refute each one with multiple examples. Lack of UV, lack of calcium, too much protein, too much food, the wrong foods, fast growth, wrong temperatures, small enclosures, not enough exercise, indoor housing, etc. None of these factors CAUSES pyramiding. They can all be somehow related to it, but they don't cause it. Simply put: Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. This is true for any species of tortoise, even the ones that don't typically pyramid. To prevent pyramiding I use a closed chamber and keep the ambient temperature 80 or higher all the time, I keep humidity at 80% or higher, I offer a humid hide that holds 95-100% humidity, I soak daily to ensure good hydration, and I spray the carapace with plain water several times a day. Sulcatas hatch during the African rainy season. It is hot, humid, rainy and marshy. It makes no sense to keep them in a dry box, with dry substrate, and a hot desiccating bulb overhead. Simulating this rainy season has grown me hundreds of smooth leopard and sulcata babies, as well as a few other species too. There are literally thousands of examples of other people succeeding using the same basic philosophy here on this forum. So please, don't keep sulcatas and leopards in desert-style enclosures. It is not healthy for them. They are not the least bit prone to shell rot, like some other species are, and they DO NOT get respiratory infections from high humidity as long as temps are 80 or higher everywhere in the enclosure, day and night. I don't say these things and come up with these assertions lightly. Its not that I raised one tortoise this way, and everything went okay. I have literally raised hundreds of tortoises of multiple species this way and had nothing but success. My methods and success rate have been repeated by thousands of tortoise keepers all over the globe. We have more than 10 years of living healthy examples to back up these assertions.

If you want to prevent pyramiding, simply do the above stuff.
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Questions and conversation are welcome. The goal here is to help people to have happy, healthy, long lived tortoises and avoid some common mistakes.

Thank you so much for some great information

 

[Zach329]

Of the bat, I have to say thank you for this guide! This has been super helpful already with myself and my fiancé being new parents to a juvenile Sulcata.

We are currently making an open-top enclosure work with some enginuity, plexiglass, silicone, and weather stripping and have covered all the glass sides to not cause stress to him.

However, I did have a question on the substrate. You mention you mainly recommend using Orchid Bark as your substrate due to the mess and variation that come with coco fiber and cypress mulch (currently using cypress). However, doing my own research, I see a lot of people stating that Orchid Bark (which is just pine/fir bark) is toxic to most tortoises. When heated up in their enclosure it can release toxic fumes as well as smaller pieces can risk impaction if ingested. I have plenty of pine bark/mulch as I also operate a houseplant business, but all signs point to it being toxic and we only used it temporarily until we were able to buy cypress mulch. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Of the bat, I have to say thank you for this guide! This has been super helpful already with myself and my fiancé being new parents to a juvenile Sulcata.

We are currently making an open-top enclosure work with some enginuity, plexiglass, silicone, and weather stripping and have covered all the glass sides to not cause stress to him.

However, I did have a question on the substrate. You mention you mainly recommend using Orchid Bark as your substrate due to the mess and variation that come with coco fiber and cypress mulch (currently using cypress). However, doing my own research, I see a lot of people stating that Orchid Bark (which is just pine/fir bark) is toxic to most tortoises. When heated up in their enclosure it can release toxic fumes as well as smaller pieces can risk impaction if ingested. I have plenty of pine bark/mulch as I also operate a houseplant business, but all signs point to it being toxic and we only used it temporarily until we were able to buy cypress mulch. What are your thoughts on this?

If I'm not mistaken, it's the needles of the fir tree that emit the toxins, not the bark. I've used fine grade orchid bark pretty religiously for years with no ill-effect.

 

[Tom]

Of the bat, I have to say thank you for this guide! This has been super helpful already with myself and my fiancé being new parents to a juvenile Sulcata.

We are currently making an open-top enclosure work with some enginuity, plexiglass, silicone, and weather stripping and have covered all the glass sides to not cause stress to him.

However, I did have a question on the substrate. You mention you mainly recommend using Orchid Bark as your substrate due to the mess and variation that come with coco fiber and cypress mulch (currently using cypress). However, doing my own research, I see a lot of people stating that Orchid Bark (which is just pine/fir bark) is toxic to most tortoises. When heated up in their enclosure it can release toxic fumes as well as smaller pieces can risk impaction if ingested. I have plenty of pine bark/mulch as I also operate a houseplant business, but all signs point to it being toxic and we only used it temporarily until we were able to buy cypress mulch. What are your thoughts on this?

You are welcome!

It's clear you've been doing lots of research. Problem is: Almost every source of info out there in the world is all wrong. Full of seemingly logical explanations like what you saw (probably on FB, right?) about orchid bark. No one is using "pine bark" under tortoises. We are using "fine grade fir bark", aka: orchid bark. Technically fir its a type of pine, yes, but a tiger is a type of cat. I wouldn't tell you to go adopt a tiger as a living room pet, but I'd tell you to go get a house cat if you wanted one. Two different things entirely, but both are cats with fur, claws, and a raspy tongue. Pine bark is not the same thing as the fir bark we use.

So there is the logical technical explanation, but here is what really matters: That whole proof in the pudding thing. I, and many others here have been using orchid bark to start hatchlings on in warm humid closed chambers and ope topped enclosure for literally many decades. My first sulcata back in 1991 lived on orchid bark for at time. I've hatched over 1000 sulcatas and almost all of them were started on orchid bark as their first substrate and their only substrate. I've grown some of these up to adulthood and then put their babies on orchid bark. I've started hatching of 10 different tortoise species on the stuff, and many other reptiles too. Many other people here can tell a similar story. Our babies thrive, grow to maturity and make more babies. If there were any problem with it, one of us would have seen some hint of it by now, right?

This is similar to the arguments I have with "experts" about how tortoise live in the wild. We can argue all day until we are blue in the face about whatever our perceptions of wild living in a given environment may be, but here, in our own enclosures, with tortoises that we care for every single day, one can clearly see what method yields which results. There is no arguing. There is just observation of what is actually happening one way or the other. Either the baby thrives, grows up smooth and healthy and reproduces, or there is some other result. Doesn't matter how anyone "feels" about it at that point.

Having said all of that, I prefer orchid bark, but cypress mulch works fine too. Now I'm not some crazy lefty tree hugger by any means, but I'm not sure chopping down old growth cypress mulch forests is a good plan. I'm more in favor of the fir trees that we intentionally plant and harvest on land that was ravaged long ago. How much of a factor this is for each of us will vary, but I'm throwing it out there for consideration.

Bottom line: Orchid bark is not toxic and I alone have thousands of examples that demonstrate this. Others here have their own hundreds or thousands of examples too.

 

[Zach329]

You are welcome!

It's clear you've been doing lots of research. Problem is: Almost every source of info out there in the world is all wrong. Full of seemingly logical explanations like what you saw (probably on FB, right?) about orchid bark. No one is using "pine bark" under tortoises. We are using "fine grade fir bark", aka: orchid bark. Technically fir its a type of pine, yes, but a tiger is a type of cat. I wouldn't tell you to go adopt a tiger as a living room pet, but I'd tell you to go get a house cat if you wanted one. Two different things entirely, but both are cats with fur, claws, and a raspy tongue. Pine bark is not the same thing as the fir bark we use.

So there is the logical technical explanation, but here is what really matters: That whole proof in the pudding thing. I, and many others here have been using orchid bark to start hatchlings on in warm humid closed chambers and ope topped enclosure for literally many decades. My first sulcata back in 1991 lived on orchid bark for at time. I've hatched over 1000 sulcatas and almost all of them were started on orchid bark as their first substrate and their only substrate. I've grown some of these up to adulthood and then put their babies on orchid bark. I've started hatching of 10 different tortoise species on the stuff, and many other reptiles too. Many other people here can tell a similar story. Our babies thrive, grow to maturity and make more babies. If there were any problem with it, one of us would have seen some hint of it by now, right?

This is similar to the arguments I have with "experts" about how tortoise live in the wild. We can argue all day until we are blue in the face about whatever our perceptions of wild living in a given environment may be, but here, in our own enclosures, with tortoises that we care for every single day, one can clearly see what method yields which results. There is no arguing. There is just observation of what is actually happening one way or the other. Either the baby thrives, grows up smooth and healthy and reproduces, or there is some other result. Doesn't matter how anyone "feels" about it at that point.

Having said all of that, I prefer orchid bark, but cypress mulch works fine too. Now I'm not some crazy lefty tree hugger by any means, but I'm not sure chopping down old growth cypress mulch forests is a good plan. I'm more in favor of the fir trees that we intentionally plant and harvest on land that was ravaged long ago. How much of a factor this is for each of us will vary, but I'm throwing it out there for consideration.

Bottom line: Orchid bark is not toxic and I alone have thousands of examples that demonstrate this. Others here have their own hundreds or thousands of examples too.

Thank you so much for this explanation. I actually found the information on a few older posts here on TFO and some other sites as well. I try to avoid FB at all costs for care, tips, guides, on anything outside of my houseplants and 3D printing.

I will look around then for "Orchid Bark" for him and make sure its Fine Grade Fir Bark and avoid using the outdoor (meant for plants) Pine Bark that I have.

 

[Tom]

Thank you so much for this explanation. I actually found the information on a few older posts here on TFO and some other sites as well. I try to avoid FB at all costs for care, tips, guides, on anything outside of my houseplants and 3D printing.

I will look around then for "Orchid Bark" for him and make sure its Fine Grade Fir Bark and avoid using the outdoor (meant for plants) Pine Bark that I have.

It can be hard to find in some areas. Really hard for people back east. Here is the one that I use:

It's about $12 a bag from my local nursery. Mark gets the same stuff up in Sacramento too. E.B. Stone sells it in 1.0 cubic foot bags and that stuff is really clean too.

 

[Zach329]

It can be hard to find in some areas. Really hard for people back east. Here is the one that I use:
View attachment 381750
It's about $12 a bag from my local nursery. Mark gets the same stuff up in Sacramento too. E.B. Stone sells it in 1.0 cubic foot bags and that stuff is really clean too.

Awesome thanks, I'll look around. I know some of my local pet stores have an "Orchid Bark" meant for reptiles but it being marketed for reptiles definitely drives the price up. I'll have to check out our local nurseries here in Utah, a lot of them are wrapping up stuff for winter so the reptile marketed stuff or the cypress may be the way to go until things warm up again.

Thank you again for all your help. I don't think I'd trust another post considering just the sheer number of other sites, posts, and forums that link to your guide!

 

[COmtnLady]

If a testimonial helps - I've used a base of Coco Coir with Orchid Bark on top, exclusively, for more than five years with zero probs.

 

[Zach329]

Back again, I'm looking into making a custom top for our enclosure to allow for optimal lighting, heat, and UVB as we go into the Winter months, as my fiancé and I like it colder.

If possible can you share a link for a recommended or similar flood light you use? I think it may just be my understanding of wording, but you state you use standard flood lights from the hardware store, NOT spot lights dedicated to reptiles. So I assume a household "spot & flood light" is what you mean.

On that note as well, what's the point of the spot light if the enclosure gets other supplemental light, heat, and UVB? I'm assuming to provide a focused area or "spot" of dedicated heat for basking so they can move in and out of it as they like?

Finally, we have around a 40 gallon enclosure (which we know he'll quickly outgrow but we're set on making it work until we get a proper enclosure like a Toads Ranch or similar), my plan for the custom top is basically to add 4 ceramic light sockets (1 Basking, 1 UVB, 2 Ceramic Heater). The ceramic heaters will be lined in with a thermostat to control the temperature of the tank, do you think it would be too much to have 2, one on each end of the tank, or would one centrally located suffice?

 

[Tom]

Back again, I'm looking into making a custom top for our enclosure to allow for optimal lighting, heat, and UVB as we go into the Winter months, as my fiancé and I like it colder.

If possible can you share a link for a recommended or similar flood light you use? I think it may just be my understanding of wording, but you state you use standard flood lights from the hardware store, NOT spot lights dedicated to reptiles. So I assume a household "spot & flood light" is what you mean.

On that note as well, what's the point of the spot light if the enclosure gets other supplemental light, heat, and UVB? I'm assuming to provide a focused area or "spot" of dedicated heat for basking so they can move in and out of it as they like?

Finally, we have around a 40 gallon enclosure (which we know he'll quickly outgrow but we're set on making it work until we get a proper enclosure like a Toads Ranch or similar), my plan for the custom top is basically to add 4 ceramic light sockets (1 Basking, 1 UVB, 2 Ceramic Heater). The ceramic heaters will be lined in with a thermostat to control the temperature of the tank, do you think it would be too much to have 2, one on each end of the tank, or would one centrally located suffice?

First, you previously said you have a juvenile sulcata. What size tortoise are we talking about? How many grams? I ask because a 40 gallon tank is only large enough for a tiny new hatchling, and only for a couple of months. 40 gallons is way too small for a juvenile.

Spot or flood denotes the angle of the beam emitted. You want a flood. Spots focus the beam into too small an area and they contribute to pyramiding. It doesn't matter where you buy it, and they aren't sold at hardware stores anymore as our government has seen fit to ban them for us. Good luck finding them. Buy a bunch of spares if you find some.

The point of the basking lamp is to provide an area directly under the bulb that is warmer than the ambient temps, so that the tortoise can warm up to "operating" temperature and all of its systems can function effectively. This is what they would do with sunshine out in the wild, or in an outdoor enclosure. Once they are warm enough, they can move out from under the heat lamp and move around the warm enclosure.

There is no good UVB bulb that screws into a socket. You should not be using any of the types that do. For UV you need an HO tube. Arcadia or ZooMed. Also, UV should only be on for a few hours mid day, and UV bulbs are not very bright. Basking lamps are also not very bright. Your CHEs, when set on a thermostat are great for maintaining ambient temps, and two of them are better than one to spread out the heat, but CHE's emit no light. This is why you need some LEDs set on a 12-13 hour timer, to make it look bight and "sunny" in the enclosure during the day time. Neither the basking lamp nor the UV tube should be relied upon for lighting the enclosure. Those are just additional light sources that serve a specific purpose in addition to the lights that light up your enclosure.

I don't know about Toad's ranch, but you are going to need something around 4x8 feet to get this guy through the juvenile stage, and then you will have to figure out what to do with a giant tropical reptile that needs tons of heated space during your winters. I like Animal Plastics or MarkW's Smart Enclosures.

 

[Zach329]

First, you previously said you have a juvenile sulcata. What size tortoise are we talking about? How many grams? I ask because a 40 gallon tank is only large enough for a tiny new hatchling, and only for a couple of months. 40 gallons is way too small for a juvenile.

Spot or flood denotes the angle of the beam emitted. You want a flood. Spots focus the beam into too small an area and they contribute to pyramiding. It doesn't matter where you buy it, and they aren't sold at hardware stores anymore as our government has seen fit to ban them for us. Good luck finding them. Buy a bunch of spares if you find some.

The point of the basking lamp is to provide an area directly under the bulb that is warmer than the ambient temps, so that the tortoise can warm up to "operating" temperature and all of its systems can function effectively. This is what they would do with sunshine out in the wild, or in an outdoor enclosure. Once they are warm enough, they can move out from under the heat lamp and move around the warm enclosure.

There is no good UVB bulb that screws into a socket. You should not be using any of the types that do. For UV you need an HO tube. Arcadia or ZooMed. Also, UV should only be on for a few hours mid day, and UV bulbs are not very bright. Basking lamps are also not very bright. Your CHEs, when set on a thermostat are great for maintaining ambient temps, and two of them are better than one to spread out the heat, but CHE's emit no light. This is why you need some LEDs set on a 12-13 hour timer, to make it look bight and "sunny" in the enclosure during the day time. Neither the basking lamp nor the UV tube should be relied upon for lighting the enclosure. Those are just additional light sources that serve a specific purpose in addition to the lights that light up your enclosure.

I don't know about Toad's ranch, but you are going to need something around 4x8 feet to get this guy through the juvenile stage, and then you will have to figure out what to do with a giant tropical reptile that needs tons of heated space during your winters. I like Animal Plastics or MarkW's Smart Enclosures.

Sorry then this was misinformation again from the seller, they said he would be fine in a 20g tank for up to a year and we immediately swapped it out for a 40g to account for growth. To clarify too it is a flatter reptile tank not a fish tank with the sides covered in adhesive cork so he can't see through. I cannot find my scale to weigh him but he is roughly 2 1/4" in carapace length and from my reading that means he's still a hatchling, he's less than 1 year old but we didn't get an exact hatch date/month.

As for the flood light, I am able to find "floodlights" on Lowe's website but the listing has them as "Spot & Flood light" and the packaging just says "floodlight" so I am still unsure what you are referring too. I understand the difference with angle, just wanting to make sure I get a bulb that actually generates the heat it needs too.
Link to "Floodlights" in question: https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Outdoor...-26-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-4-Pack/5013820503

I'll reconfigure my current setup and plans or whatever setup we change to based on your feedback to account for HO light instead, the screw-in is just all we have for the time being until my next paycheck. I will also add standard LED lights or I have spare daylight color, low-watt grow lights I can use as the tank/enclosure light as well as other options.

Lastly the Toad's Ranch look similar to the ones you referenced, they are primarily used by Garden State Tortoise on YT who we were recommended to for advice from a different tortoise owner we met.

Sorry for the all the confusion, still very much appreciate the feedback.

 

[Tom]

Sorry then this was misinformation again from the seller, they said he would be fine in a 20g tank for up to a year and we immediately swapped it out for a 40g to account for growth. To clarify too it is a flatter reptile tank not a fish tank with the sides covered in adhesive cork so he can't see through. I cannot find my scale to weigh him but he is roughly 2 1/4" in carapace length and from my reading that means he's still a hatchling, he's less than 1 year old but we didn't get an exact hatch date/month.

Do you have a picture of when you first got the tortoise showing the tip of the snout? Was there an egg tooth? The baby isn't going to drop dead because it's in a 40, but that is really on the small side. I normally recommend at least 2x4 feet for babies.

As for the flood light, I am able to find "floodlights" on Lowe's website but the listing has them as "Spot & Flood light" and the packaging just says "floodlight" so I am still unsure what you are referring too. I understand the difference with angle, just wanting to make sure I get a bulb that actually generates the heat it needs too.
Link to "Floodlights" in question: https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Outdoor...-26-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-4-Pack/5013820503

You are looking at LEDs. Those emit light but no heat. You need an incandescent flood bulb. Arcadia makes them if you want to look them up. I think Fluker is still selling them also. They don't sell incandescent bulbs in hardware stores anymore. Only LEDs, which are great for light, but of no use to use for basking.

I'll reconfigure my current setup and plans or whatever setup we change to based on your feedback to account for HO light instead, the screw-in is just all we have for the time being until my next paycheck. I will also add standard LED lights or I have spare daylight color, low-watt grow lights I can use as the tank/enclosure light as well as other options.

Don't use the screw in UV bulbs. Better to go with none for a couple of weeks than to use one that might do harm to your tortoise. Tortoises store D3 and also take it in with their diet, so they don't need constant UV all day every day. Stick a LED bulb in that socket for some light instead.

Lastly the Toad's Ranch look similar to the ones you referenced, they are primarily used by Garden State Tortoise on YT who we were recommended to for advice from a different tortoise owner we met.

As I said, I don't know Toad Ranch. If it is made of expanded PVC sheets, then it should work just fine. I have first hand experience with the two that I recommended, so I know they are good and suitable for tortoise needs. Don't buy wood or melamine enclosures, and don't buy an open topped or screen top enclosure.

Garden State is one of the better ones, but there are still a few things he gets wrong that can harm your tortoise. Overall I like the guy, but sand, soil, and cfl bulbs should not be used with tortoise babies. Because of this, I don't recommend his channel or advice. He gets more right than most other sources, but these things are deal breakers.

I hope all this info helps.

 

[Daffodil]

Zach, I found these on amazon when I was looking for the right bulbs.

Tom, These are ok for incandescent basking bulbs, right?

The idea is to raise or lower them to get a temp of 95-100 underneath (for a RT, in my case), right?

Having trouble getting the basking temp up without overheating the rest of my 4x2 vivarium (until I get Mark's enclosure.)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0759MKTBQ/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

 

[Cristy0502]

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species.

Babies hatch during the start of the rainy season. It is hot, very humid, rainy, and marshy in some areas. There are puddles and lush green growing food everywhere. In some areas there is a dry season, but the hot monsoon season is when babies hatch, and babies find humid microclimates to hide in during drier times. In extreme conditions they aestivate and don't eat or grow at all when its hot and dry. Keeping your hatchling in a dry, desert-like enclosure, is a big mistake and an invitation to disaster. It is also very un-natural for these animals. Damp substrate, a water bowl, and a humid hide should all be pre-requisites. Along with this, warm temps day and night are necessary. Sulcatas, leopards and stars are NOT prone to shell rot at all, and they do not get respiratory infections in these damp conditions as long as temps are kept up. I shoot for no lower than 80 degrees day or night year round, and all three of these heat loving species do well with a day time ambient approaching 90 degrees. Humidity is at 80+% all the time. Most people keep them too cool and too dry. Adults can tolerate colder temps and drier conditions in some circumstances, but this care sheet is for hatchlings and babies and is aimed at helping them thrive, not just survive. I know the books, the breeders and the "experts" all say the opposite of this. They are wrong. They've been wrong for 30 years. For 20 of those years I was wrong right along with them. Some of us have learned and advanced. Some have not. Keep this in mind when consulting a vet, or a potential breeder or seller that you want to buy from. As soon as they contradict this info and tell you "this is a desert species", you will know NOT to buy from them.

Some General Notes:

• Set up your enclosure, run it, check it and make adjustments BEFORE you bring home a new tortoise. Babies are easy if the set up is correct. Babies aren't delicate or difficult. When babies are not started correctly is when people have problems with them. Babies have a smaller margin of error due to their smaller body mass, if you've made mistakes, or if the enclosure and equipment isn't already set up and at the right temperatures.
• You won't find most of what you need to set up a tortoise at a pet store. What you will find is expensive stuff that is bad for your tortoise and lots of bad advice. This is true even at most reptile specialty places. Where to get tortoise supplies then? The hardware store or large department stores. There are a few exceptions like reptile thermostats, some reptile heating elements, and UV tubes. I get these from on-line sellers.
• If you are going the the grocery store to buy tortoise food, you are feeding the wrong stuff. If you have no other choice but to use grocery store food due to your climate and weather for part of the year, it will need to be amended to make it more suitable as tortoise food. More on this later.
• It is my hope that this care sheet finds you BEFORE you buy a tortoise. Most breeders start their babies too dry. The end result is stunting, pyramiding and sometimes death weeks or months later. Don't get a baby from someone who starts them dry, on dry substrate, outdoors all day, and doesn't soak daily.
• Some common mistakes to avoid, with more explanation later: Buying from the wrong (dry) source, getting advice and products from a pet store, free roaming indoors or out, feeding a diet of mostly grocery store foods without amendments, not soaking daily, cool temps, wrong UV bulbs, wrong basking bulbs, letting dogs around your tortoise, small enclosures, open topped enclosures, sand or soil substrates, bad vet care or advice, too much outside time for little babies, keeping a pair of tortoises in the same enclosure...

Heating And Lighting:
I use a 45-65 watt incandescent flood bulb on a 12 hour timer and adjust the height of the fixture to get a basking area of around 95-100 directly under the bulb. In some closed chambers I go with lower wattage bulbs. This depends on many factors and no one can tell you exactly what wattage you will need in your enclosure. Let your thermometer be your guide. I use a ceramic heating element or a radiant heat panel set to 80 degrees on a reptile thermostat to maintain my ambient temperature in the enclosure. The basking lamp should raise the day time ambient temperature into the high 80s or low 90s. Ambient should be no lower than 80, but drifting up to 90 during the heat of the day is good. The thermostat will keep your CHE or RHP off during these times, but ready to click on after the basking lamp clicks off and the ambient temperature starts to drop at night. I use LED bulbs when I want to brighten up the whole enclosure and I run these on the same timer as the basking bulb. There are other ways to do some of this, but trial and error have shown time and time again, that the above is what works the best. Don't use "spot" bulbs, reptile specialty bulbs, halogen bulbs, any cfl, or mercury vapor bulbs. You want a plain old, regular incandescent flood bulb from the hardware store. I buy them in six or twelve packs, so I always have extras on hand. They always go out at the most inopportune times.

UV:
Tortoises need regular exposure to the right kind of UV rays in order to make vitamin D2 into D3 to be able to utilize dietary calcium. Real sunshine is best, but be careful. Shade should always be available as babies can overheat and die surprisingly quickly. If your tortoise can get some regular sunning time in a safe outdoor enclosure, even just a couple of times a week for most of the year, you don't need any artificial UV. Its okay if you have to skip two or three weeks of sunning time during a cold winter spell. If you live somewhere with long frozen winters, then some artificial UV might be in order for that time of year. I no longer recommend mercury vapor bulbs for several reasons, but florescent HO (High Output) UV tubes work very well according to my UV meter. CFL type UV bulbs are ineffective as UV sources and sometime burn reptile eyes. No type of compact florescent bulb should be used over a tortoise. Also get yourself a Solarmeter 6.5. Without a UV meter, you are guessing about the UV levels in your enclosure, no different than guessing the temperature without a thermometer. At least without a thermometer you can still feel the temperature with your hand. You can't feel UV levels. These meters pay for themselves in short order since you won't be replacing perfectly good working bulbs every six months, as the sellers recommend.

Too much outside time is bad for babies. It slows their growth tremendously and causes pyramiding. I've done many side-by-side experiments with clutch mates over the years to determine this fact. My general rule is an hour of access to sunshine per inch of tortoise. Once they reach around 5 inches, outside all day is fine, weather permitting, but soak daily and continue to let them sleep in their humid closed chamber every night until they get a bit bigger.

The Enclosure:
I have not been able to make any open topped enclosure work to my satisfaction. Low sided open topped enclosures like tortoise tables and sweater boxes are the worst. No amount of covering, or attempts to slow heat and humidity loss have worked well for me. There is just no way to keep the warm humid air where you want it. Closed chambers are the way to go. Maintaining whatever temperature and humidity you want is easy and efficient in a closed chamber. They use a lot less electricity because all of your heat and humidity is contained with nowhere to go. It also makes maintaining warm night temps a snap. Open tops allow all your warm humid air to escape up and into the room where your enclosure sits. Even if you cover most of the top, the heat lamps create a chimney effect and draw your heat and humidity up and out. Having the heat lamps outside, or on top of, the enclosure also lets the majority of the electrically generated heat you are creating float up up and away. A closed chamber contains all the heat and humidity. It works best if all the heating and lighting equipment is INSIDE the enclosure with the tortoise. Any other way is a compromise and less than ideal. Maintaining a small open topped box at 80 degrees with 80% humidity in a regular sized room that is 70 degrees and 20% humidity is VERY difficult, if not impossible in a practical sense. A closed chamber makes it easy.
Here are pictures of the plain basic closed chambers that I use to start babies:
View attachment 291552
View attachment 291554
You can make it much more fancy and add plants and decorations if you want. I'm going for simplicity and I spend time making their outdoor enclosures more fantastic. When done correctly, your baby will only be in this enclosure for a year or two, and then it will be time to move outside full time with a heated night box, or get much larger indoor accommodations if this is what your climate dictates.

What if you already bought a glass tank or wooden tortoise enclosure? How can you make that one work? You really can't. Covering the top and trying to contain the heat and humidity is better than nothing, but the sooner you resign yourself to buying or building the right kind of enclosure, the sooner you and your tortoise will reap the benefits. Almost everyone gets bad info from the breeder, pet store, vets, and all over the internet. I'm sorry this happens and sorry you bought all the wrong stuff, but it helps no one when a person keeps trying to jam that square peg into a round hole. Think it over, take a deep breath, and just go get the correct stuff now that you know. I encourage people to return the items to the pet shop and tell them why. Eventually they will learn and stop selling dangerous, bad, and useless items to people.

You need to know, and periodically adjust your temperatures. You need to regularly check warm side, cool side, basking spot and night temps, and adjust as needed. Every enclosure is different and they even change with the seasons in most households. It is not enough to screw a bulb in and walk away. Check those temps, and make adjustments, preferably BEFORE the baby even comes home. I like to use an infrared temp gun AND digital thermometers for this purpose. Check your temps early and often.

Enclosure Size:
Simply put: The bigger the better. I start babies in a 30x48 inch closed chamber. As a minimum, I would suggest no smaller than 36"x18" for a tiny hatchling, but you'll need to upgrade quickly. They need room to roam around. Once you put in the food and water bowls, the humid hide, and any decorations or potted plants, there is hardly any room left over to walk. Tortoises do not tend to do as well as some other types of reptiles when stuffed into small enclosures. They need room to roam inside their safe heated enclosures, and the floor is not a safe option. Don't think that you'll use a smaller enclosure, and just let Sheldon out to roam the floor for some exercise. This almost always ends in disaster. Its bad for your tortoise and impaction, sickness, injury, or death is the usual result. "But, but, but... I make it safe and supervise closely..." says every person until the day that disaster eventually strikes and they realize they were wrong. Its a terrible sickening feeling to hold a dead tortoise in your hand. Don't put yourself through this. Make a large enclosure. Don't have room for a large enclosure? Get a different pet that can live in a smaller enclosure that you have room for. Tortoises aren't good pets for everyone. For a sulcata, even 4x8' is only going to last a year or two. You might get three years with it for a star, leopard or slower growing sulcata, but that is optimistic. Outdoor enclosures can be even larger. Babies will NOT get lost or overwhelmed in 10x10 foot enclosure. In the wild they roam far greater distances than that.

Humid Hide Boxes:
This offers the tortoise a more humid place to retreat to and sleep and can simulate some of the more damp micro-climates they might utilize in the wild. It is as simple as getting a $2 black dishwashing tub from Walmart, flipping it upside down and cutting out a small door hole. I keep the substrate under the tub more damp than the surrounding substrate and it works great. You can also use plastic shoe boxes. Sphagnum moss is unnecessary and potentially dangerous since they eat it, and it can cause an impaction. The humid hide is a very important detail that should not be overlooked. Half logs and flower pots on their sides do not work. They are not closed in enough.

Substrate:
There are only three viable options. Coco coir, orchid bark, and cypress mulch. All of these can be purchased in bulk at most hardware or garden center stores at a tremendous savings. I don't like coco coir for these species because its too messy. I don't like cypress mulch because the pieces aren't uniform, some pieces are too big or too sharp, and because it smells like the swamp that is came from. If these two are all you can find, then go ahead and use them. They are safe and suitable. Fine grade orchid bark works the best. Its cheap, easy, holds moisture well, doesn't stink, easy to clean, easy for babies to walk on, not an ingestion hazard, etc... I recommend against any store bought soil, "Pets At Home" reptile bedding with the little white limestone bits in it, wood shavings or chips, ground walnut shell, corn cob bedding, rabbit pellets, compressed grass pellet bedding, newspaper pellets, hay, cedar, or any amount of sand. None of those are safe or suitable for an indoor tortoise enclosure.

Water Dishes:
Plain old terra cotta plant saucers work best. They come in a variety of sizes to suit any size tortoise, they offer good traction to little wet tortoise feet, they have low sides, they are cheap so you can buy extras, and they are shallow so your tortoise won't drown if it happens to flip over and land upside down in the water bowl. Sink the bowl into the substrate for best results. I prefer to give babies two water bowls. Do NOT use the typical ramped pet store bowls. These are great for snakes and lizards, but they can literally be death traps for tortoises. Clean your terra cotta saucer as often as needed. The more they track food and substrate into it, and the more they poop in it, the better. This means they are comfortable using their bowl, and that is great news. Just rinse and refill as many times a day as you need to. A water bowl that stays clean and untouched all day is a water bowl that is not being used for one reason or another. This is a bad sign, and it means your tortoise is one step closer to dehydration.

Soaking:
I recommend ALL hatchlings of ALL species be soaked in 85-95 degree water for at least 20-30 minutes every day. I use a tall sided opaque tub and keep the water depth about a third to half way up the body. If you have a humid enclosure with a humid hide and a water bowl, it is totally fine to skip a day here and there. Soaking only once a week and using a dry enclosure is not enough in my opinion, and I would not buy a hatchling that had been started that way. Once the tortoise gets to about 100 grams, I start skipping a day now and then. I gradually taper it down as they gain size. How often I soak older tortoises depends on a lot of factors, the current weather and season being two big ones. I soak more often when its hot and dry. If you live in a warm, humid, rainy climate, and your tortoise is exposed to these conditions, soaking less often is probably fine, but it still wont hurt anything to do it. You cannot soak too much or for too long. Soaking does not do any harm whatsoever. It doesn't make them poop too much and not digest their food, it doesn't upset their "water balance", whatever that is, it doesn't give them shell rot or respiratory infections, and it is NOT unnatural in any way. "But, but, but... Who soaks them every day in nature???" These babies hatch at the start of the RAINY season in the wild. Its raining on them frequently, and puddles form all over the place. Keep the soak water warm for the entire soak. If you are in a hurry, 10 minutes is enough. If you are forgetful or get distracted, an hour will do no harm.

Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.

Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems to help those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a year.

Outdoor Enclosures:
This is a MUST in my opinion. Tortoises are solar powered, need lots of walking room, and benefit greatly from some time in the great outdoors. With hatchlings I start with short excursions of only an hour a day, followed by a soak on the way in. As they gain size, I like to leave them out longer and longer each day, weather permitting, until they eventually live outside full time with a heated night box of some sort, where climate allows. Outside time must be done with great care as there are many dangers. They can overheat, be eaten or mauled, or escape. Here is one simple idea. A large kiddie pool or horse watering trough could also work. If you don't have a suitable grassy area, you can put a plywood bottom on this with wheels and legs, and move it around. Do NOT let your baby roam free outside. You will lose it eventually, and you'll be unable to explain how it happened so fast when you were watching so carefully. Its a sickening feeling. Don't put yourself through this. Use an enclosure and make it large. Also, if you have a dog, or people who come to visit bring a dog, your tortoise is in grave danger. Be careful. EVERY dog will chew up a tortoise. It doesn't matter how nice and loving a dog it is. Tortoises are seen as chew toys by dogs. Don't let this happen to your tortoise. Physically prevent it with fencing and/or correct housing. Don't leave it to chance. It is a horrible sickening feeling holding a mauled tortoise in your hands. Don't put yourself through this.
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Pyramiding:
This is the subject of many threads in itself. I will simply state here what I know to be true based on my experience, my experiments, conversations with people who live other countries and study tortoises, people who have kept them for decades here in the U.S., and personal observations of thousands of tortoises in all manners of keeping styles.

There are many things listed as causes of pyramiding. I can refute each one with multiple examples. Lack of UV, lack of calcium, too much protein, too much food, the wrong foods, fast growth, wrong temperatures, small enclosures, not enough exercise, indoor housing, etc. None of these factors CAUSES pyramiding. They can all be somehow related to it, but they don't cause it. Simply put: Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. This is true for any species of tortoise, even the ones that don't typically pyramid. To prevent pyramiding I use a closed chamber and keep the ambient temperature 80 or higher all the time, I keep humidity at 80% or higher, I offer a humid hide that holds 95-100% humidity, I soak daily to ensure good hydration, and I spray the carapace with plain water several times a day. Sulcatas hatch during the African rainy season. It is hot, humid, rainy and marshy. It makes no sense to keep them in a dry box, with dry substrate, and a hot desiccating bulb overhead. Simulating this rainy season has grown me hundreds of smooth leopard and sulcata babies, as well as a few other species too. There are literally thousands of examples of other people succeeding using the same basic philosophy here on this forum. So please, don't keep sulcatas and leopards in desert-style enclosures. It is not healthy for them. They are not the least bit prone to shell rot, like some other species are, and they DO NOT get respiratory infections from high humidity as long as temps are 80 or higher everywhere in the enclosure, day and night. I don't say these things and come up with these assertions lightly. Its not that I raised one tortoise this way, and everything went okay. I have literally raised hundreds of tortoises of multiple species this way and had nothing but success. My methods and success rate have been repeated by thousands of tortoise keepers all over the globe. We have more than 10 years of living healthy examples to back up these assertions.

If you want to prevent pyramiding, simply do the above stuff.
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Questions and conversation are welcome. The goal here is to help people to have happy, healthy, long lived tortoises and avoid some common mistakes.

Tom I’m new here. And someone sent me this after a pet store really led me astray. I truly thought I had done enough research and knew what I was doing but after reading this I realize I don’t have everything I need. I have a glass enclosure that opens like cabinets in the front and a wire mesh top. My husband is a great woodworker. Can you please suggest the best way to proceed? Should he build something completely new? And if so do you have an idea of what we should build out of? He has the idea to build a cabinet that fits this glass enclosure inside of it with enough room for us to put the basking light and the regular light above the tank. Do you think this would be okay? Basically enclosing the glass tank? Or should we start completely anew? And if so we just aren’t even sure what to build because most things show open enclosures which is so misleading. Also. They talked me into taking two home and I’m very much regretting that. They’re 3 months old, and have been together since they were born. But would you suggest I just return one to the store tomorrow? My son will be devastated but I really don’t want to start out wrong and I’m feeling like all my research I had done was just simply wrong information. There’s so much out there!! I’m sure I’m going to have a ton more questions but I feel so much better finding this forum though!! Thank you!!

 

[Tom]

Tom I’m new here. And someone sent me this after a pet store really led me astray. I truly thought I had done enough research and knew what I was doing but after reading this I realize I don’t have everything I need. I have a glass enclosure that opens like cabinets in the front and a wire mesh top. My husband is a great woodworker. Can you please suggest the best way to proceed? Should he build something completely new? And if so do you have an idea of what we should build out of? He has the idea to build a cabinet that fits this glass enclosure inside of it with enough room for us to put the basking light and the regular light above the tank. Do you think this would be okay? Basically enclosing the glass tank? Or should we start completely anew? And if so we just aren’t even sure what to build because most things show open enclosures which is so misleading. Also. They talked me into taking two home and I’m very much regretting that. They’re 3 months old, and have been together since they were born. But would you suggest I just return one to the store tomorrow? My son will be devastated but I really don’t want to start out wrong and I’m feeling like all my research I had done was just simply wrong information. There’s so much out there!! I’m sure I’m going to have a ton more questions but I feel so much better finding this forum though!! Thank you!!

Hello and welcome!

Wood will rot with all the moisture and humidity. Best to use expanded PVC sheets. I used to build my own, but I've found it is cheaper, much easier and much better to just buy them. For years I bought from Animal Plastics. They are fantastic cages, great customer service, and reasonably priced, but... they take many months to arrive once you order and pay for one. You need a cage now. Our own @Markw84 began making his own closed chamber enclosures and they are the best I've ever seen. I call them the perfect tortoise life support system. They come with all the heating and lighting installed and because he buys in bulk, it is cheaper than buying all the stuff yourself and building it.

Unless the glass tank is somewhere around 2x4 feet, it's already too small. What do they weigh in grams?

They should never be in pairs. Personally, I would not take it back to the store where it will be further mistreated due to their ignorance. I would make another enclosure, or give it away to a good home that will treat it right.

Questions are welcome. You will probably have many!

Here is more info:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Cristy0502]

Hello and welcome!

Wood will rot with all the moisture and humidity. Best to use expanded PVC sheets. I used to build my own, but I've found it is cheaper, much easier and much better to just buy them. For years I bought from Animal Plastics. They are fantastic cages, great customer service, and reasonably priced, but... they take many months to arrive once you order and pay for one. You need a cage now. Our own @Markw84 began making his own closed chamber enclosures and they are the best I've ever seen. I call them the perfect tortoise life support system. They come with all the heating and lighting installed and because he buys in bulk, it is cheaper than buying all the stuff yourself and building it.

Unless the glass tank is somewhere around 2x4 feet, it's already too small. What do they weigh in grams?

They should never be in pairs. Personally, I would not take it back to the store where it will be further mistreated due to their ignorance. I would make another enclosure, or give it away to a good home that will treat it right.

Questions are welcome. You will probably have many!

Here is more info:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you so much! I have sent him an email for some information. I remembered another question, the pet store gave me a fluorescent UV bulb and told me to keep it on 24/7 for a year for heat as well as a red reptile bulb. I am going to get the basking bulb you listed today for basking but what else would I get for daytime heat just for now until I get a new enclosure from Mark? I read in comments on here they don’t need UV 24/7 and now I’m not sure how to heat this cage until we have something else. Obviously I’m going to work on something asap but I definitely need to fix this situation. We covered the top (for now) and we’re staying right at 80 degrees outside of the red reptile light but how else can I achieve that or what should I do?