8 Month Horsfield appears dead??

[NatalieBird1710]

I have a horsfield tortoise, hatched late Oct 2023 so roughly 8 months old.

It's appeared to be fine until yesterday, when it kept pushing its back legs right out and not using its front legs and sort of pushing itself along or spinning In circles, it hadn't ate since Saturday morning and just wanted to sleep (There was no sign of Resp infection, no runny nose or eyes). Its personality changed over night, i started to think it may be constipated Saturday night, so soaked it in warm water and it pooped.

This morning (Monday) it didn't come out like usual after lights going on, took it out an placed under heat for roughly 1 hour, seemed lethargic, so soaked it again for around 20 min, was again pushing back legs out with head right in shell. I dried it put it bCk under heat an went pets at home for some vit drops. Come back and its not responding, left back leg is stiff and straight out, right leg is tucked in and front legs to the side, I have tried soaks again, no movement, pulled legs no response, eyes are closed.

I have an open vivarium with t5 ubv right across tank, and temp of 33degrees hot end and 19 cold end.

Any idea what may have happend please??

 

[NatalieBird1710]

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I am so sorry for you and your tortoise. Constipation can cause walking problems and open vivariums aren't recommended. But it is possible that this isn't caused by you, but the breeder. It is sometimes possible for very sick tortoises appear dead even though they aren't, but it is also possible that he wont recover. I would try at least one more long soak in luke warm VERY SHALLOW water. What was it's diet? What about the substrate? What did you use for heat?

I will tag more experienced members
@Tom @wellington

EDIT: What was the humidity? How often do you soak your tortoise? it's eyes seem sunken and he is slightly pyramided. Again, if dehydration is the cause of death, it is likely caused by the breeder at that age.

 

[NatalieBird1710]

I used tortoise terrain from pets at home and on the warmer end added abit of coco bedding as it liked to burrow.
Diet leafy greens, cucumber, peppers, and dandelion pellets every now and then, I also added calcium dust every other day to food.
Used a prorep basking bulb for heat.

I had it since end of February and it's been absolutely fine up until around Saturday when behaviour changed slighty

 

[NatalieBird1710]

I am so sorry for you and your tortoise. Constipation can cause walking problems and open vivariums aren't recommended. But it is possible that this isn't caused by you, but the breeder. It is sometimes possible for very sick tortoises appear dead even though they aren't, but it is also possible that he wont recover. I would try at least one more long soak in luke warm VERY SHALLOW water. What was it's diet? What about the substrate? What did you use for heat?

I will tag more experienced members
@Tom @wellington

EDIT: What was the humidity? How often do you soak your tortoise? it's eyes seem sunken and he is slightly pyramided. Again, if dehydration is the cause of death, it is likely caused by the breeder at that age.

What does pyramided mean? It's been that shape since I had it.
I soaked it everyday.

It was always in water bowl too, and always ate fine- humidity is 45%?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Pepper isn't a great food but probably not the cause of death. Pyramiding refers to the scutes rising up instead of the shell being smooth. This is usually a sign of low humidity. 65-70% humidity is recommended to baby Russian tortoises + soaking every day. Sunken eyes is another sign of dehydration. Dehydration could've caused kidney stones for example, that when passed make walking hard and could cause death, especially in a baby. But again, the younger the tortoise, the more critical the care. When tortoises die this young, it is usually caused by the breeder. I will also tag @Yvonne G

 

[NatalieBird1710]

I sprayed the terrain few times a day to moist it and gain humidity, it fluctuated between 45-55%.

It just seems so sudden and bizarre really and there where no warning signs.
It might be worth mentioning yesterday morning it was trying to climb up the wall ontop of a pile of the cocobedding and it rolled on its back, I watched it happen as I was watching it most of the day because i was worried with behaviour change. So I immediately turned it back over and he scurried off, so no injuries seemed present. Not sure if it may of had an impact, like I say it's only rolled, never fell from a hight or anything.

 

[wellington]

The temps were not good. The basking should be 95-100 F
Over all the rest of the enclosure should range 75-80 and 60's at night.
Humidity should be 80% in a closed chamber enclosure not an open top table.
Should be soaked in warm water every day for 30 minutes.
Diet should consist of broad leaf weeds or if needed grocery greens like arugula, escarole, dandelion, some kale, collard and mustard greens, endive.
Never fruit.
Hard to say if the baby was started right, but a lot was off with it's care.
Too dry and dehydrated causes the pyramid and other internal problems.
Halogen, coil and mercury bulbs should not be used. A tube florescent for uvb and an incandescent flood bulb for basking with ceramic heat emitter for any added heat needed.
Clay saucer for water available 24/7.
Sorry about the little one.
Before getting another, do your research on this forum and get the enclosure, temps and humidity where it should be.

 

[NatalieBird1710]

It's diet was all of above. Occasionally dandelion pellets. The temp was 33c ground level, 36 at basking platform. Rest of enclosure was 19/20c.
I soaked it for 20min a day, sprayed terrain with water few times a day.

Always had water and fresh food twice daily, it never appeared dehydrated. Maybe the humidity was off slightly but i did spray terrain with water few times a day, but temps were OK giving the Book I bought about horsfields ... I have t8 uvb with reflector, and a prorep basking bulb.

Shall I leave it for 24 hours or would you say it's passed?

 

[David Steere]

So sorry for you and your tortoise.

You came to the right place! This forum and all the members is the very best place to get advise and answer questions on the planet. So much bad information out there. Posting pictures in my opinion is very important. Picture is worth a thousand words.

When I decided to have a Tortoise as a pet I found this forum, read all the the care sheets and posts. Side note I never realized how important the setup was in keeping a tortoise. Setup my enclosure and posted and even when I thought it was perfect I still to this day need to make adjustments and ask questions.

So much is in play for a solid setup. Enclosure size, heat, lighting, food, humidity, temperature, water, substrate, plants and safe objects in enclosure and much more.

Not to mention advice on where to buy your tortoise.

This forum is a "Gold Mine" to make the experience enjoyable.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I would say do the soak with very shallow water, leave the tortoise be and observe.

 

[NatalieBird1710]

I know. I had a tortoise throughout my childhood, mum's still got it. I'm 30 now so it must be pretty old. Same breed and more or less same set up, just can't figure out why my ween one passed ...

I'm nervous to bury now too incase it's not actually dead, id hate to think if it wasn't. I will give it another 24 hours I think.

 

[NatalieBird1710]

I would say do the soak with very shallow water, leave the tortoise be and observe.

I did try that initially when i discovered it. Do you think try again now?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I did try that initially when i discovered it. Do you think try again now?

Sometimes it might help, 30 minutes to an hour. Water so swallow that it can't breathe it in. Change the water so it remains warm.

 

[NatalieBird1710]

Sometimes it might help, 30 minutes to an hour. Water so swallow that it can't breathe it in. Change the water so it remains warm.

I'm 30 minutes in and no change

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Just in case it is something contagious, do your tortoises have any access to one-another?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I definitely wouldn’t bury yet as sometimes they can appear dead but aren’t, @Alex and the Redfoot I remember reading a thread you were advising on a while back for a tort that had sadly passed, but some of the methods you included to try and wake them up are escaping me atm, what would you recommended trying here as a last resort? A warm carrot soak maybe?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Carrot soaks aren't panacea. And with stiff limbs doing CPR (pulling and pushing front legs) is not possible either.

Just a warm soak in 32-33C water is enough.

If it's possible to open its mouth (probably not) - you can check if there is something it has choked on. Like a piece of substrate (it looks like one of those "edible substrates" with limestone in it).

However, half-closed eyes and stiff limbs are usually death signs. I'm very sorry if it passed away...

 

[zovick]

I'm 30 minutes in and no change

I am very sorry to tell you this, but the tortoise looks quite dead in your photo. I can't say why it happened, but it does appear to be dead.

 

[TammyJ]

I am sorry for your loss.