A whole bunch of Wannabe questions

[emdubz]

We're on the slowest path ever to bringing home a leopard tortoise, so it's time to start asking questions instead of just reading!

I live in northern IL. I've been interested in having a pet tortoise for a few years, starting really looking into it about 6 months ago, and now think we're ready. But I'm not sure where to start!

We've decided on getting a GPP. Perhaps it's @Tom extolling the virtues - but I'm hooked. But we have a couple of questions.

First: So many of you have multiple tortoises, but I've read over and over that having just one is the way to go. I've read never EVER get a pair, if you want more than one - get three. But... is it really just better to have one? We anticipate the tortoise having full roam of a nearly fenced in acre once big enough, but as we live in IL, it will need to be overwintered indoors. In my head, I know that I'm just projecting human emotions on a non-human, but... wouldn't they want some contact with their own species?

Second: Any good books out there regarding the rearing of a healthy tortoise that you would recommend? I've read the care sheets - but I'd love to learn more, and hopefully not have (many) beginners mistakes! (And yes, I read the post!)

Third: Male versus female? Or does it even make a difference? I've read the female may grow a bit larger. Are they friendlier? Less aggressive? What are your general observations of gender?

I'm a dog person - so anything regarding tortoises is well outside my comfort zone. Any tips you might have are appreciated!

 

[Riley ann]

Ok I have a pair and I’ve never had a problem. Male versus female, I think it just depends on the tortoise. I think all tortoises are friendly. My female leopard let me pet her head while my male is so shy. My friends have gotten two friendly ones. It really depends. I don’t know of a book.

 

[emdubz]

@Riley ann - thanks! I have a friend with two males, and there's been a few times she's mentioned rehoming the second one because the boys don't always get along! Again, I know it's totally projecting, but I can't help but think there's got to be some boredom involved, and maybe a friend would help that!

 

[Riley ann]

@Riley ann - thanks! I have a friend with two males, and there's been a few times she's mentioned rehoming the second one because the boys don't always get along! Again, I know it's totally projecting, but I can't help but think there's got to be some boredom involved, and maybe a friend would help that!

They are solitary creatures but I would get either a male and female/ 2 females. Males can get aggressive.

 

[Tom]

We're on the slowest path ever to bringing home a leopard tortoise, so it's time to start asking questions instead of just reading!

I live in northern IL. I've been interested in having a pet tortoise for a few years, starting really looking into it about 6 months ago, and now think we're ready. But I'm not sure where to start!

We've decided on getting a GPP. Perhaps it's @Tom extolling the virtues - but I'm hooked. But we have a couple of questions.

First: So many of you have multiple tortoises, but I've read over and over that having just one is the way to go. I've read never EVER get a pair, if you want more than one - get three. But... is it really just better to have one? We anticipate the tortoise having full roam of a nearly fenced in acre once big enough, but as we live in IL, it will need to be overwintered indoors. In my head, I know that I'm just projecting human emotions on a non-human, but... wouldn't they want some contact with their own species?

Second: Any good books out there regarding the rearing of a healthy tortoise that you would recommend? I've read the care sheets - but I'd love to learn more, and hopefully not have (many) beginners mistakes! (And yes, I read the post!)

Third: Male versus female? Or does it even make a difference? I've read the female may grow a bit larger. Are they friendlier? Less aggressive? What are your general observations of gender?

I'm a dog person - so anything regarding tortoises is well outside my comfort zone. Any tips you might have are appreciated!

Hello and welcome to the forum. Glad you've already read the main threads! I'll answer your questions one by one.

1. How many tortoises you get depends on the individual. I think it is really neat to have just one pet that gets all your time and attention. I also think its neat to have multiple tortoises living as a group, when possible. Pairs are always a bad idea, even when people doing it think its not a problem. It is a problem and it shouldn't be done. With the species and variety you've chosen, the males can be very aggressive and need to live alone. My males live alone most of each year with brief visits for breeding. They are VERY territorial with any other tortoise and with people too. Unless you are buying adults, you won't know the sexes. If you get three and two or three are male, you will need three separate enclosures. Males also have to be separated from the females at about 1.5 years of age, because they are so darn rough with each other and with the females. Females should not have to live and grow up under their tyranny.
2. Tortoises are solitary animals. Other tortoises are not viewed as "friends". Other tortoises are viewed as hostile competitors, intruders, and enemies. They do not want or need the company of other tortoises. It can sometimes work in groups, but with this type, it frequently only works with groups of females and no male. My girls all get along fine. The males are great big tortoise jerks all the time. I love them and man are they fun to have around, but holy cow are they persistent and angry at me for being in "their" territory. I frequently remind them how I lovingly raised them from babies and have cared for them their whole lives, but they ignore my words and keep ramming my ankles or biting my shoes. INGRATES!!!, I tell them.
3. There are no books that I'd recommend. I've yet to find a book that details how to raise and feed them correctly.
4. Females are bold and outgoing, but usually not so aggressive. Males are very territorial and aggressive toward any living thing in their territory. In the South African variety, the males get larger than the females. Males can get over 60 pounds. You should consider this size when deciding if this species is really for you, or not. A 60 pound tortoise needs a lot of room to roam. Confining them to a small space for months at a time over winter isn't fair. If you have a large heated space, then this is a great species to work with.
5. One nice thing about this type of tortoise is that they are grass eaters. Much more so than "regular" leopards. My SA leopards eat as much grass as my sulcatas. Grass hay is a large portion of the day to day diet of my adults. So is spineless opuntia cactus pads.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I have a single leopard tortoise and I like it that way. In the past I had many but after a move from CA to OR I rehomed the rest and every winter, I'm so glad I did.

The only contact my male would want with his own species would be a female to mate with. He would hate another males (like he hates most shoes that enter his territory) and he would not be a sweet romantic with a girl. He'd be a rapist.

I got the bulk of my info from people here and used trial end error on the minor things.

I like having a male. I preferred a male but when I bought him as a hatchling I was taking a gamble. You will be, too.

I didn't want a female primarily because I wouldn't have wanted to deal with egg laying or egg bound issues.

Read up about dogs and tortoises (aka living rawhides). I allowed my well behaved/trained dog around my tortoise ONLY IF I was there. But even dog trainers don't leave their dogs alone with their tortoises. For good reason.

Welcome to TFO and hopefully the leopard family in the future

 

[emdubz]

Read up about dogs and tortoises (aka living rawhides). I allowed my well behaved/trained dog around my tortoise ONLY IF I was there. But even dog trainers don't leave their dogs alone with their tortoises. For good reason.

For sure they would never be alone with the tortoise - they're not even allowed outside alone with each other! They're also not allowed out in the "big" yard unsupervised. We have 2 greyhounds and 1 galgo with thin skin and a need for speed, 1 jerky Great Dane, 1 handicapped Great Dane, and a tiny little adventurer who had a history of being an escape artist when we adopted her. See how I'm used to numbers?!

 

[emdubz]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Glad you've already read the main threads! I'll answer your questions one by one.

1. How many tortoises you get depends on the individual. I think it is really neat to have just one pet that gets all your time and attention. I also think its neat to have multiple tortoises living as a group, when possible. Pairs are always a bad idea, even when people doing it think its not a problem. It is a problem and it shouldn't be done. With the species and variety you've chosen, the males can be very aggressive and need to live alone. My males live alone most of each year with brief visits for breeding. They are VERY territorial with any other tortoise and with people too. Unless you are buying adults, you won't know the sexes. If you get three and two or three are male, you will need three separate enclosures. Males also have to be separated from the females at about 1.5 years of age, because they are so darn rough with each other and with the females. Females should not have to live and grow up under their tyranny.
2. Tortoises are solitary animals. Other tortoises are not viewed as "friends". Other tortoises are viewed as hostile competitors, intruders, and enemies. They do not want or need the company of other tortoises. It can sometimes work in groups, but with this type, it frequently only works with groups of females and no male. My girls all get along fine. The males are great big tortoise jerks all the time. I love them and man are they fun to have around, but holy cow are they persistent and angry at me for being in "their" territory. I frequently remind them how I lovingly raised them from babies and have cared for them their whole lives, but they ignore my words and keep ramming my ankles or biting my shoes. INGRATES!!!, I tell them.
3. There are no books that I'd recommend. I've yet to find a book that details how to raise and feed them correctly.
4. Females are bold and outgoing, but usually not so aggressive. Males are very territorial and aggressive toward any living thing in their territory. In the South African variety, the males get larger than the females. Males can get over 60 pounds. You should consider this size when deciding if this species is really for you, or not. A 60 pound tortoise needs a lot of room to roam. Confining them to a small space for months at a time over winter isn't fair. If you have a large heated space, then this is a great species to work with.
5. One nice thing about this type of tortoise is that they are grass eaters. Much more so than "regular" leopards. My SA leopards eat as much grass as my sulcatas. Grass hay is a large portion of the day to day diet of my adults. So is spineless opuntia cactus pads.

So... now I'm going to second guess the gpp vs gpb! And I'd read the forum post where you had mentioned the aggression in the males versus the females, which is another reason why I was thinking more of a female. But with a hatchling, I won't know the gender for some time!

I greatly worry about quality of life, especially overwinter. I have a friend locally with two leopards - I'm kind of going on her experience here that they generally get outside full-time for 4-ish months a year on average. I was planning on a winter "pen" that was about 10x20, which means - if you think that's unfair, then I 100% will take that into account (and by that, I mean listen and change my mind - because, seriously - I'm no expert here, and this is a major concern of mine).

 

[Tom]

So... now I'm going to second guess the gpp vs gpb! And I'd read the forum post where you had mentioned the aggression in the males versus the females, which is another reason why I was thinking more of a female. But with a hatchling, I won't know the gender for some time!

I greatly worry about quality of life, especially overwinter. I have a friend locally with two leopards - I'm kind of going on her experience here that they generally get outside full-time for 4-ish months a year on average. I was planning on a winter "pen" that was about 10x20, which means - if you think that's unfair, then I 100% will take that into account (and by that, I mean listen and change my mind - because, seriously - I'm no expert here, and this is a major concern of mine).

I think a 10x20 indoor winter pen is large enough for a single SA leopard tortoise over winter if they are going to be outdoors in something larger during fair weather. I'd be comfortable with that.

Many people balk at the idea of giving a 5" russian tortoise 4x8' of space. They say: "I don't have that kind of space…" I tell them to get a leopard gecko or small python that can live in something smaller then. But your proposed 10x20 feet for an 18-20 inch tortoise? I don't think that would be a bad life at all.

 

[emdubz]

I think a 10x20 indoor winter pen is large enough for a single SA leopard tortoise over winter if they are going to be outdoors in something larger during fair weather. I'd be comfortable with that.

Many people balk at the idea of giving a 5" russian tortoise 4x8' of space. They say: "I don't have that kind of space…" I tell them to get a leopard gecko or small python that can live in something smaller then. But your proposed 10x20 feet for an 18-20 inch tortoise? I don't think that would be a bad life at all.

The outdoor fenced area is about 100x250. The goal would be for open roaming during summer, when they're large enough! We were thinking of starting in a smaller "corral", and enlarging it as the tortoise grew.

 

[Tom]

The outdoor fenced area is about 100x250. The goal would be for open roaming during summer, when they're large enough! We were thinking of starting in a smaller "corral", and enlarging it as the tortoise grew.

Sounds like an ideal situation to me.

For babies, I like to use outdoor enclosures during nice weather and bring them in every night. My general rule of thumb is an hour of outside time for every inch of tortoise. Once they reach 5-6 inches, I leave them out all day in nice weather and bring them in at night. Once they reach 8-10", I leave them outside full time with a heated night box for shelter and safety. I close them up every night and open their door every morning.

You could do it this way for a good 7 or 8 months a year I'll bet, and just bring the tortoise indoors full time over the really cold months. If its 65+, sunny and dry, Gpp can go outside.

 

[Riley ann]

I have had my dogs around tortoises their entire life. I felt the first few encounters you really have to monitor them like when your tort is a hatchling. My dogs know better but I just think my dogs are well behaved

 

[Tom]

I have had my dogs around tortoises their entire life. I felt the first few encounters you really have to monitor them like when your tort is a hatchling. My dogs know better but I just think my dogs are well behaved

This has nothing to do with dogs being well behaved or monitoring the first few encounters. If left alone, dogs will eventually choose to chew on tortoises. We see it here all too frequently.

The right advice here is to NEVER have any dog around any tortoise without direct supervision. Anything less is risking terrible permanent injury or death to the tortoise.

The loving family dog is one of the top tortoise killers. The vast majority of these dogs are wonderful, well behaved, loving family pets. Tortoises just look like chew toys to dogs. Don't leave them alone together. Simple as that.

 

[Riley ann]

This has nothing to do with dogs being well behaved or monitoring the first few encounters. If left alone, dogs will eventually choose to chew on tortoises. We see it here all too frequently.

The right advice here is to NEVER have any dog around any tortoise without direct supervision. Anything less is risking terrible permanent injury or death to the tortoise.

The loving family dog is one of the top tortoise killers. The vast majority of these dogs are wonderful, well behaved, loving family pets. Tortoises just look like chew toys to dogs. Don't leave them alone together. Simple as that.

They have never been left alone but I mean that they don’t care anymore.

 

[Riley ann]

To address any issues my torts aren’t hatchlings, they are 17. They are of breeding age and I make sure nothing happens by building a pen with like a screen lid for the hatchlings

 

[wellington]

We're on the slowest path ever to bringing home a leopard tortoise, so it's time to start asking questions instead of just reading!

I live in northern IL. I've been interested in having a pet tortoise for a few years, starting really looking into it about 6 months ago, and now think we're ready. But I'm not sure where to start!

We've decided on getting a GPP. Perhaps it's @Tom extolling the virtues - but I'm hooked. But we have a couple of questions.

First: So many of you have multiple tortoises, but I've read over and over that having just one is the way to go. I've read never EVER get a pair, if you want more than one - get three. But... is it really just better to have one? We anticipate the tortoise having full roam of a nearly fenced in acre once big enough, but as we live in IL, it will need to be overwintered indoors. In my head, I know that I'm just projecting human emotions on a non-human, but... wouldn't they want some contact with their own species?

Second: Any good books out there regarding the rearing of a healthy tortoise that you would recommend? I've read the care sheets - but I'd love to learn more, and hopefully not have (many) beginners mistakes! (And yes, I read the post!)

Third: Male versus female? Or does it even make a difference? I've read the female may grow a bit larger. Are they friendlier? Less aggressive? What are your general observations of gender?

I'm a dog person - so anything regarding tortoises is well outside my comfort zone. Any tips you might have are appreciated!

I live in the city of Chicago. I have 9 Babcocki (gpb) leopards. 2 females and 2 males an unknown and 4 hatchlings. The four adults have to be separated a couple times a summer because of bullying and that's the times I see it and I have a group. I'm
Sure I miss some of it, no one can watch 24/7. Those keeping pairs are just not seeing the bullying going on, but it's going on.
If you don't want to breed tortoises then get one and get a male. My males are much more out going and friendlier then my females. The Babs are a little smaller so you may want to consider that. One makes a good pet.

 

[Greg T]

Welcome and smart move asking question BEFORE you get into this. I have 3 adults, 1 male and 2 females. I have zero issues with them all together.

As for male or female? I'll say you get out what you put into a tortoise. If you raise them properly with a lot of attention and hands on, they are very friendly and curious animals. My male was raised from a baby and he will come across the yard to see what you are doing, then sit right in the middle and watch. One of my females was a rescue and she will race away from anyone to go hide. Not friendly at all. They do recognize people and can be a lot of fun, but like any pet it requires attention and work.