Age & Size Difference

[South FL Katie]

My 2 leopards are suppose to be about 2-3 months apart in age but the older of the two is smaller. I would think it would be the opposite? Is this something to worry about?

Cody, hatch date toward the end of March '10. 68g

Charlie, hatch date beginning of January '10. She's smaller but has a taller shell. 51g (she's a wiggle worm and wouldn't sit still for her pictures lol)

 

[Seiryu]

My 2 leopards are suppose to be about 2-3 months apart in age but the older of the two is smaller. I would think it would be the opposite? Is this something to worry about?

Cody, hatch date toward the end of March '10. 68g

Charlie, hatch date beginning of January '10. She's smaller but has a taller shell. 51g (she's a wiggle worm and wouldn't sit still for her pictures lol)

They look great by the way!

For any species of animals, there's going to be size variances. Part of it too, since you have two. Are they kept together? I'm not saying this one way or the other, but maybe the supposedly older one is getting pushed out of his share of food. The tortoises don't know there's an unlimited supply .

Also. My Thor is almost 15 months old. He was supposedly 3-4months old when I got him on July 15th 2009. He weighs about 100g. He weighed roughly 75 grams at the one year mark. He's also, almost exactly 3 inches long.

Maybe the breeder has the birth date of the "younger" one wrong and the older one too?

Maybe you got a mix of P. Pardalis and P. Babcocki? I know Terra has a mix. Not necessarily 50/50 either. But I read somewhere that some breeders were having issues with "Pure bred" Babcocki and ended up breeding them with Pardalis. Of course with that, you can get 20% Pardalis / 80 % babcocki variants down the line too. If that's the case anyways. I will have to see if I can find where I read this.

 

[egyptiandan]

Nope not a thing to worry about.

It looks like Charlie started out life smaller (came from a smaller egg than Cody).

Danny

 

[South FL Katie]

Thanks guys. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something important. I've only had Cody for a little over a month and Charlie came home a couple weeks later. I feed them twice a day and make sure to feed a little extra at each meal so there's always left overs and no reason to fight over food. I just got my scale too so I'll be able to keep track of their weights now.
And I guess there isn't a way to know for sure when they hatched.

 

[DeanS]

3 inches long at 3 months...is that possible?

 

[Seiryu]

3 inches long at 3 months...is that possible?

That's what I was thinking. He also has a good bit of marbling, which I didn't think showed up until 9-10months or even older.

 

[DeanS]

I didn't put one-and-one together before...because Katie's photos are so good and her torts are so cute that I didn't even notice that their features are more akin to yearlings than hatchlings...

 

[South FL Katie]

Does anyone have a growth chart and pictures of their Leopard hatchlings for comparison?

 

[Seiryu]

Does anyone have a growth chart and pictures of their Leopard hatchlings for comparison?

I only have a growth chart for Thor when he was a year old until now. My other one got wiped out I got a virus a few months back. Measured and weighed before feeding every monday morning. I don't have a picture of Thor by a ruler. I just measure him (in MM since it's more exact) and put it in a word pad.

So with this 4-26-10 would make Thor 1 year, 4 weeks old to start the chart. The loss of 4g was when he started eating piles of grass and I had to guess how much he was supposed to get. Grass isn't nearly as filling as greens . 75mm = roughly 3 inches.

Thor's Birthday April 1st

Date SCL / Width / Weight

4-26-10 70 mm / 56 mm / 75g

5-3-10 71 mm / 56 mm / 80g

5-10-10 72 mm / 57 mm / 82g

5-17-10 73 mm / 58 mm / 88g

5-24-10 73 mm / 58 mm / 84g

5-31-10 73 mm / 59 mm / 90g

6-7-10 75 mm / 59 mm / 91g

6-14-10 75 mm / 60 mm / 95g


I can tell you he weighed roughly 75g at one year.

The only growth chart out there is this one.
http://www.africantortoises.co.uk/leopards.html

The "24, 28, 32, 36" etc are Weeks.

 

[South FL Katie]

Thanks for the chart Rob. There's another member here who got one of his siblings... guess I should let her know he's probably not 3 months old. Richard said they were 6-8 weeks old when I bought him in May.

I wonder how old Charlie is since she's about an inch smaller. The add on kingsnake said CB '09 hatchlings but then when I asked the breeder she told me they hatched "sometime in January."

I guess it doesn't matter as long as the care isn't different for the different ages.

 

[DeanS]

Thanks for the chart Rob. There's another member here who got one of his siblings... guess I should let her know he's probably not 3 months old. Richard said they were 6-8 weeks old when I bought him in May.

I wonder how old Charlie is since she's about an inch smaller. The add on kingsnake said CB '09 hatchlings but then when I asked the breeder she told me they hatched "sometime in January."

I guess it doesn't matter as long as the care isn't different for the different ages.

January 2009?

 

[South FL Katie]

Oh my gosh! You think? I just emailed the breeder to clarify.

 

[Macheteslaststep]

Thanks for the chart Rob. There's another member here who got one of his siblings... guess I should let her know he's probably not 3 months old. Richard said they were 6-8 weeks old when I bought him in May.

I wonder how old Charlie is since she's about an inch smaller. The add on kingsnake said CB '09 hatchlings but then when I asked the breeder she told me they hatched "sometime in January."

I guess it doesn't matter as long as the care isn't different for the different ages.

January 2009?

It does seem the most logical. The ad stated they were 2009 hatchlings so when she said January - she probably thought you knew she meant 2009 The one in the top photo does look over a year old, that's about how big Tank and Dozer were at that age. The one in the bottom photo looks more like this year's hatchlings.

Saranna

ETA: I just realized the one on top was supposed to be the younger one O.O Maybe it just hit a really early growth spurt?

 

[Seiryu]

I'm not saying they are "for sure" older than they are. It just doesn't add up from everything I've ever read. Like Danny said though, some eggs are bigger than the rest, and like birds, you will have the "runts" too.

But Charlie is no way an 09 January hatchling. That would mean she's almost 18 months old and 51g. Maybe a December 09 or Jan 2010 hatchling. Making her around 6 months old.

No idea on Cody though , but definitely not 3 months old. Of course it's not always true (always extremes). But Thor pretty much fell right in line with that growth chart I posted. So if it's roughly correct, give or take 5-10% off. Cody is more like 9-10 months old.

To me, as unless the breeder really knows their hatch dates, as long as they are showing steady growth, you are good to go. It's nice to be able to compare your Leo to others when they were that age etc. But climates do affect growth too. I notice my herps "slow down" in the winter, even though the temperatures in the house are the same year 'round. They just "know" something is different.

But in Cody's case, 3 months old and weighing as much as a 9-10 month old and measuring a year old length, he is probably either mixed pardalis/babcocki or the birthdate is way off.

 

[DeanS]

Oh my gosh! You think? I just emailed the breeder to clarify.

I'm just saying if it was a January hatching then it would have been 2009...no way these torts are younger than 9 months...and some breeders will tell you what you wanna hear so they can move stock.

 

[South FL Katie]

She told me Charlie was hatched in January 2010 but she forgot to fix the add. That would put her at about 6 months old. No idea what the story is with Cody.

 

[Tom]

Richard Fife feeds a much richer, higher protein diet than most. It stands to reason that his females would lay bigger healthier eggs and his hatchlings would grow bigger faster. I'd also bet that he keeps pretty accurate records on his hatch dates. Don't know about the possibility of some Gpp blood in there, but Richard could answer that for sure. I think he's the best person to ask this question.