Applying lamisil on my sully

[edricivan]

Hi All,

Unfortunately Nicco has developed shell rot. His routine has been the same since I got him last year. He's in an enclosure with 4 temp zones, he gets to graze outside daily, he's on a grass diet + mazuri on the side, he gets reptile vitamins and calcium supplements, he gets soaked 30 minutes daily, and has a water dish inside his enclosure for more soaking throughout the day.

I get someone to spray his enclosure to make sure it stays at 90% humidity (should really get that mist machine). Lately I've noticed that his enclosure isn't just damp, it's wet almost swamplike. I think this is how his shell rot started.

My question is do you guys have advice on how to apply the lamisil? Do I stop soaking him during this treatment period? It just occurred to me that he might ingest the medication.

Cheers

 

[Kasia]

Hi All,

Unfortunately Nicco has developed shell rot. His routine has been the same since I got him last year. He's in an enclosure with 4 temp zones, he gets to graze outside daily, he's on a grass diet + mazuri on the side, he gets reptile vitamins and calcium supplements, he gets soaked 30 minutes daily, and has a water dish inside his enclosure for more soaking throughout the day.

I get someone to spray his enclosure to make sure it stays at 90% humidity (should really get that mist machine). Lately I've noticed that his enclosure isn't just damp, it's wet almost swamplike. I think this is how his shell rot started.

My question is do you guys have advice on how to apply the lamisil? Do I stop soaking him during this treatment period? It just occurred to me that he might ingest the medication.

Cheers

Hi
How big is yout sully? Maybe for a period of treatment it will be better to move him out on paper towels into lesser humidity. If the area a is not that big you can for the time after application use bandage and a duct tape to cover it so he will not smear it around. Don't feed him at time if you see a chance that he could digest it/ smear it on his food Good luck

 

[edricivan]

Hi
How big is yout sully? Maybe for a period of treatment it will be better to move him out on paper towels into lesser humidity. If the area a is not that big you can for the time after application use bandage and a duct tape to cover it so he will not smear it around. Don't feed him at time if you see a chance that he could digest it/ smear it on his food Good luck

How long would it normally take for the treatment to finish? 6-8 inches carapace length I think, haven't measured lately.

 

[Yvonne G]

Can we see a picture of the shell rot? It's quite unusual for a sulcata to get shell rot.

 

[edricivan]

 

[Yvonne G]

I shouldn't have doubted you. Sorry.

Clean the tortoise off real good (and dump his substrate). Then apply the cream. You can rub it in, then leave a bit sitting on the shell to absorb in. During this time keep him on a clean, dry substrate - newspaper, indoor/outdoor carpet - anything clean and dry. It shouldn't take too long to start seeing results. You'll know when to stop treatment and put him back on regular substrate.

 

[edricivan]

I shouldn't have doubted you. Sorry.

Clean the tortoise off real good (and dump his substrate). Then apply the cream. You can rub it in, then leave a bit sitting on the shell to absorb in. During this time keep him on a clean, dry substrate - newspaper, indoor/outdoor carpet - anything clean and dry. It shouldn't take too long to start seeing results. You'll know when to stop treatment and put him back on regular substrate.

Oh I didn't take offense at all. I'm grateful for the help.

Enclosure:
I can cover his enclosure with newspaper.
I'll keep the basking lamp and CHE operational
I'll remove the water dish in case he swims in it with the lamasil on him

Routine:
He'll get to bask in the sun daily and graze.
No daily soaks though until he gets better.

On Nicco:
I might follow Kasia's advice on putting tape on him as well so he doesn't smear it everywhere.

What do you think? Thanks again for the help.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Is Lamasil for toenails and not a general athletes foot cure?
What is the active ingredient?
Has anyone here ever used Lamasil on a tortoise?

 

[Rue]

I just looked it up. Seems like a good choice?

 

[Tom]

WHo has diagnosed that as shell rot? That doesn't look like shell rot to me. I've kept sulcatas in very swampy conditions and never seen any sort of shell rot. Shell rot, when it does occur, almost always happens on the plastron. Not on the sides. If he's outside i the sun on a regular basis, it makes shell rot even more unlikely.

This looks more like rodent damage to me. Or some sort of mechanical abrasion.

What does the plastron look like? The plastron would be wettest all the time and so it should be worse. If the plastron is clean that would support my theory, as a rodent or small animal couldn't get to the plastron if it were laying flat on the ground. If never seen shell rot up on the side like this.

 

[edricivan]

WHo has diagnosed that as shell rot? That doesn't look like shell rot to me. I've kept sulcatas in very swampy conditions and never seen any sort of shell rot. Shell rot, when it does occur, almost always happens on the plastron. Not on the sides. If he's outside i the sun on a regular basis, it makes shell rot even more unlikely.

This looks more like rodent damage to me. Or some sort of mechanical abrasion.

What does the plastron look like? The plastron would be wettest all the time and so it should be worse. If the plastron is clean that would support my theory, as a rodent or small animal couldn't get to the plastron if it were laying flat on the ground. If never seen shell rot up on the side like this.

The plastron is clean the last time I checked, I have to look more closely but I'm currently on a trip. Rodent damage would be impossible, I have him in an enclosure and the only time he's out I/(or someone at home) watches him while he basks, soaks and graze daily.

I got flamed real bad on a facebook page when I asked what this was, I was immediately told my multiple members that it was fungal damage. So I snapped into action immediately. I basically setup my routine and enclosure based on your and Yvonne's advice. So I'll take your word for it.

(If this is indeed mechanical damage, I have a hunch on how it happened. It might be some overzealous brushing by the person that watches him when I'm away) I used to brush nicco when he was smaller cuz he got some stains on him. I did it really lightly though. It might've been a different story with the tortoise sitter XD

 

[Edizzle888]

Yeah that is a little weird. Agree with tom. My guys are always humid or even wet-plus soaking everyday. If it was because of humidity levels then this forum would have non stop shell rot postings instead of the successes we have found because here.

 

[Edizzle888]

I couldn't even find anything on Google to help you out with...just so uncommon

 

[Kasia]

The plastron is clean the last time I checked, I have to look more closely but I'm currently on a trip. Rodent damage would be impossible, I have him in an enclosure and the only time he's out I/(or someone at home) watches him while he basks, soaks and graze daily.

I got flamed real bad on a facebook page when I asked what this was, I was immediately told my multiple members that it was fungal damage. So I snapped into action immediately. I basically setup my routine and enclosure based on your and Yvonne's advice. So I'll take your word for it.

(If this is indeed mechanical damage, I have a hunch on how it happened. It might be some overzealous brushing by the person that watches him when I'm away) I used to brush nicco when he was smaller cuz he got some stains on him. I did it really lightly though. It might've been a different story with the tortoise sitter XD

Did you noticed it happen overtime or just saw it today? Try to gently massage it with a solution of water with big amount of lemon juice (acidic) and a soft brush - if it comes of it's maybe a calcium water deposit, is it on both sides? I would still use lamisil on it - if it's abrasion and he will be sitting in damp substrate rot might come in anyway. I found a article about using terbinafine on animals (tortoise as well - read about side effects that may occure)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257625711_Therapeutic_Review_Terbinafine

 

[Tom]

This is a very unusual case. If this is some sort of fungal infection, it would be the first time I've ever seen it in that location on any tortoise, and also the first time I've ever seen it at all on a sulcata. The wetness thing does not make sense to me because of the ways that I have kept them in the past, and the ways I have seen others keep them.

@dean told me that he used to sun his babies in a kiddie pools for hours. They would literally be in the the water all day and then sleep in damp warm humid chambers all night. Yet he never say anything like this. Also, what about all the people who live in South Florida and New Orleans where it is constantly wet, humid and rainy nearly every day. They tend to have the best looking healthiest sulcatas I've seen.

I would like to learn from this unfortunate incident, one way or the other. At this point I am just speculating based on past experiences.

@deadheadvet ,
May I request your insight into this case?

 

[deadheadvet]

I would scrub the entire shell w/ a scotch brite pad and some diluted dish washing liquid to get rid of all the excess debris. careful around the eyes.
After that I would put this animal on shredded newspaper as a substrate to keep it dry. OTC Conofite would likely be effective if it indeed is fungal. I have seen cases of it only on the carapace and not on the plastron. I would apply cream to all area daily and see if it starts to improve. If no better after a couple of weeks, you will need to take the tortoise to the vet and scrape a little of the material and have it analyzed for fungus vs bacteria vs other. Could take 3-4 months to get resolution. There is a fine line between too dry and too wet as you can see.. The substrate should be damp not soaked. I mist every day during the winter with a misting system for about 2 minutes.During the rest of the year, outside humidity is suffice to not need anything additional. I do check their shells fairly often. I found a tick on one the tortoises' neck the other day, that had not been there in the morning. I am a little OCD and check everyone daily too make sure all is ok. Every so often someone has an eye shut and needs to be rinsed out since they are out and about getting into who knows what. I have 17 Tortoises so it requires some regular checks to make sure everyone is ok , eating, etc.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I have had shell rot on a leopard yearling. It was also on the sides like that but not as bad. I know you say you never see shell rot on sulcata/leopards @Tom and I believe you....so although I don't understand it, I do know I did have it on at least 1. I treated it with athletes foot cream and sure enough, it cleared up.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I would scrub the entire shell w/ a scotch brite pad and some diluted dish washing liquid to get rid of all the excess debris. careful around the eyes.
After that I would put this animal on shredded newspaper as a substrate to keep it dry. OTC Conofite would likely be effective if it indeed is fungal. I have seen cases of it only on the carapace and not on the plastron. I would apply cream to all area daily and see if it starts to improve. If no better after a couple of weeks, you will need to take the tortoise to the vet and scrape a little of the material and have it analyzed for fungus vs bacteria vs other. Could take 3-4 months to get resolution. There is a fine line between too dry and too wet as you can see.. The substrate should be damp not soaked. I mist every day during the winter with a misting system for about 2 minutes.During the rest of the year, outside humidity is suffice to not need anything additional. I do check their shells fairly often. I found a tick on one the tortoises' neck the other day, that had not been there in the morning. I am a little OCD and check everyone daily too make sure all is ok. Every so often someone has an eye shut and needs to be rinsed out since they are out and about getting into who knows what. I have 17 Tortoises so it requires some regular checks to make sure everyone is ok , eating, etc.

A tick on the neck? Had it attached like it would have on a dog?

 

[deadheadvet]

• Embedded in the skin just like on a dog. Removed the same way. Just a pair of hemostats. Lucky my tortoises are used to be handled.

 

[Tom]

I have had shell rot on a leopard yearling. It was also on the sides like that but not as bad. I know you say you never see shell rot on sulcata/leopards @Tom and I believe you....so although I don't understand it, I do know I did have it on at least 1. I treated it with athletes foot cream and sure enough, it cleared up.

Thanks Heather. I appreciate the insight.

I phrase these things carefully. "I have never seen…" I mean that to imply that I don't think this thing we are discussing is impossible, or not happening. Just that I, personally, have never seen it in all of my travels. What I am trying to imply with a statement like that is that since I've seen a lot f stuff over a lot of years, that this thing we are talking about is certainly not common, and there might be some other explanation. Sometimes I am wrong and it really is what it seems to be, and in that case, I try to make sense of it based on what I do know first hand.

I keep an open mind and I enjoy learning new things from people like you who have first hand experience and people like our own Deadheadvet who is a very experienced, practicing tortoise vet. I don't think that some sort of shell infection is impossible in a leopard of sulcata, but I find it odd that off all the hundreds of babies of both species that I and others have raised in damp conditions have never showed any sign of this sort of thing, yet the OP is seeing these symptoms. It makes me think there might be something else going on, or some other un-accounted for factor. I don't mind being wrong, but it seems worth investigating, and I don't regret bringing up the possibility of some other factor at work.

If the anti-fungal cream clears this problem up in a few weeks, we will have our answer. The tricky part is that if the OP keeps things less wet and stops the abrasive shell scrubs, we won't know which of the three most obvious factors was the cause of the issue.

I'm still living and learning...