Baby Sulcata

Kayla0203

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So I finally brought home my sulcata today. We notice it's eyes aren't open and Everytime we went to see him they weren't open. We took him to a friend and they said take him to a vet. He tried a qtip in some warm water and nothing. Also noticed that ours and his sulcata are around the same age and his is a lot bigger. So he was thinking where we got him from, maybe he didn't have the best care. Now is there tips for us to try before the vet? The lady had him and siblings in a plastic container in a glass container with one bulb she said had uva and uvb. Their bedding was bark (looked like it) and no water. She soaked them 3 times a week to get their water and they ate leafy greens. Now when I messaged her asking if it was normal, she said they sleep a lot and they wake up when the sun rises and sleeps when it sets. But we have had him for going on 12 hours and nothing. The friend said the eyes look like they are stuck. So the lady keeps contradicting herself. And I'm just trying to see if anyone has any experience with this eye problem and what y'all have done. He is around 3 months.
 

Minority2

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Take picture(s) and upload them here. Pictures would be helpful.

Here are some links to care sheet and diets you should definitely read. Follow their guidelines and change your enclosure and or equipment to mimic their advice:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-diet-sheet.64290/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/african-spurred-tortoise-sulcata-care-sheet.52524/

Start off by giving your hatchling Sulcata daily 20-30 minute warm water soakings. Make sure temperature and humidity levels are correct. Information is already provided in the links above.

There's not enough information to outright say anything negative about the lady in question. Though all young tortoises require high humidity levels and access to water at all times.

At this early of stage of ownership you can either take the young tortoise to an experienced exotics vet or return/demand a refund from the lady if the tortoise was included in a monetary transaction. A breeder's level of care prior to being sold is often vital to a young tortoises chance at surviving past the year mark.
 

Maro2Bear

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Greetings..

Definitely read through the info in the links provided above, especially the third one “How to Raise a Healthy Sulcata”.
Eyes not opening isnt really a good sign, make sure you soak your hatchling in nice warm water. Tge water should come up to a depth where carapace meets the plastron. Use a dark tupperware container that tort can’t see out.

Make sure your overall temp is at least 80 F. Basking spot about 110. And a nice dark hide (not JUST a log).

Lights on timers -

Good luck, upload some pix of everything...Happy Torting...
 

DeanS

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So I finally brought home my sulcata today. We notice it's eyes aren't open and Everytime we went to see him they weren't open. We took him to a friend and they said take him to a vet. He tried a qtip in some warm water and nothing. Also noticed that ours and his sulcata are around the same age and his is a lot bigger. So he was thinking where we got him from, maybe he didn't have the best care. Now is there tips for us to try before the vet? The lady had him and siblings in a plastic container in a glass container with one bulb she said had uva and uvb. Their bedding was bark (looked like it) and no water. She soaked them 3 times a week to get their water and they ate leafy greens. Now when I messaged her asking if it was normal, she said they sleep a lot and they wake up when the sun rises and sleeps when it sets. But we have had him for going on 12 hours and nothing. The friend said the eyes look like they are stuck. So the lady keeps contradicting herself. And I'm just trying to see if anyone has any experience with this eye problem and what y'all have done. He is around 3 months.
This happens from time to time...nothing to worry about (unless it's permanent). The problem is the bulb...it dries them out...especially babies. The bark is good...but needs to be moist...damp is fine too! Use a radiant heat panel to increase the humidity. Babies SHOULD NOT have a water bowl available at all times! Repeat...should NOT! Soak them two or three times a day and they'll get all the water they need...even if they don't drink...they still take it in! They are crepuscular (more active at dawn and dusk) but sleep a lot throughout the day as well! I'm currently working on a BRAND NEW care sheet that will dispel the old rumors and myths...but this will do for now! Being in Georgia...you should be able to soak your baby outside...do not warm the water...let the sun do it naturally. Keep us posted!

Just so you see that I know what I'm talking about...

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/8-new-babies-from-tom-aka-the-bond-girls-maybe.118641/

...and this if you wanna keep up!

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/meet-arliss-our-newest-sudanese-sulcata-photo-heavy.169306/
 
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Minority2

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This happens from time to time...nothing to worry about (unless it's permanent). The problem is the bulb...it dries them out...especially babies. The bark is good...but needs to be moist...damp is fine too! Use a radiant heat panel to increase the humidity. Babies SHOULD NOT have a water bowl available at all times! Repeat...should NOT! Soak them two or three times a day and they'll get all the water they need...even if they don't drink...they still take it in! They are crepuscular (more active at dawn and dusk) but sleep a lot throughout the day as well! I'm currently working on a BRAND NEW care sheet that will dispel the old rumors and myths...but this will do for now! Being in Georgia...you should be able to soak your baby outside...do not warm the water...let the sun do it naturally. Keep us posted!

Just so you see that I know what I'm talking about...

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/8-new-babies-from-tom-aka-the-bond-girls-maybe.118641/

...and this if you wanna keep up!

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/meet-arliss-our-newest-sudanese-sulcata-photo-heavy.169306/

Can you explain more about the reason behind the water bowl/dish statement? Are you referring to the dangers of over-drinking, drowning, or any other factors I or other members should be aware of?
 

Yvonne G

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In my opinion, eyes that are stuck shut is a problem that requires immediate attention. Regardless of whether it's a vitamin A deficiency, a respiratory infection or a too dry habitat. . . you must figure out why and correct it asap!

Buy either one of these:

eye ointment a.jpg eye ointment b.jpg

You may need to get a prescription for the one on the left, but Amazon sells the other one and sometimes you can find it at pet stores.

Soak the baby in Gerber strained carrots mixed half and half with warm water for about an hour daily. You can position a light over one side of the soak bowl to help it stay warm. The eyes should be open by the end of the third day. After each soak, and a couple times throughout the day, dab a bit of the eye ointment on the eyelid and rub it gently with a Q-tip.

During those three days, try to figure out why the eyes are sticking shut and correct that. Re-read the baby sulcata care sheet and make any adjustments to the way you're caring for the baby - feeding it - heating it - lighting it.

No, it's not normal for baby tortoises' eyes to stick shut. Yes, they sleep a lot, but when you wake them up, the eyes should open.
 

Yvonne G

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Babies tend to tip over backwards into the water when they're climbing out. They might drown. I have overcome this problem by putting small pebbles in the bottom of the waterer. Also, I use clay plant saucers because they have sloping sides. The slope helps babies climb out easier without tipping backwards.

leopard babies 3-31-18c.jpg
 

Reptilony

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Babies tend to tip over backwards into the water when they're climbing out. They might drown. I have overcome this problem by putting small pebbles in the bottom of the waterer. Also, I use clay plant saucers because they have sloping sides. The slope helps babies climb out easier without tipping backwards.
It says in Tom's care sheet for sulcata and leopards to always have a water dish available. So Dean new care sheet will suggest putting pebbles in the water dish or not having a water dish at all? I guess the solution is putting pebbles if you can't soak your tortoise 3 times a day because work and such? I tought everyone had a regular clay saucer for their babies(shallow).
 

Yvonne G

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There is no one set way to care for turtles and tortoises. You have to read everything and understand each writer's perspective. What works for some may not work for others. Maybe Dean has had babies to be upside down in their water, so he writes accordingly. Tom may not have ever seen babies upside down in the water because of the type of saucer he uses. So he writes accordingly. If you lose a baby to drowning because he tipped over backwards in the water, then you know where Dean is coming from, and you don't use a water dish, but rather, you soak the baby a lot.
 
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Minority2

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I personally just use water to fill in my plant saucers when dealing with young tortoises. I haven't personally encountered a flipping situation with my setup but I do value @DeanS's statement and will try to incorporate his experience into any future advice I give to new members.
 

DeanS

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There is no one set way to care for turtles and tortoises. You have to read everything and understand each writer's perspective. What works for some may not work for others. Maybe Dean has had babies to be upside down in their water, so he writes accordingly. Tom may not have ever seen babies upside down in the water because of the type of saucer he uses. So he writes accordingly. If you lose a baby to drowning because he tipped over backwards in the water, then you know where Dean is coming from, and you don't use a water dish, but rather, you soak the baby a lot.
WRONG! I've NEVER had tortoises flip over...it's ONLY common sense. In the wild, sulcata don't always have regular access to water. If they're being soaked once or twice a day...that's more water than they would EVER see in the wild. When I soak them, it's often in a kiddie pool with about 1/2 an inch of water...slightly tilted so a portion of it is dry. There's food on the dry end...half sun/half shade! This represents to a degree the marshes that SOME sulcata babies are hatched near. In the end, they're not dogs and cats...they're at the extreme opposite end of the pet spectrum! Don't humanize your tortoises...that won't bode well for them in the end!
 
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Minority2

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WRONG! I've NEVER had tortoises flip over...it's ONLY common sense. In the wild, sulcata don't always have regular access to water. If they're being soaked once or twice a day...that's more water than they would EVER see in the wild. When I soak them, it's often in a kiddie pool with about 1/2 an inch of water...slightly tilted so a portion of it is dry. There's food on the dry end...half sun/half shade! This represents to a degree the marshes that SOME sulcata babies are hatched near. In the end, they're not dogs and cats...they're at the extreme opposite end of the pet spectrum! Don't humanize your tortoises...that won't bode well for them in the end!

Where is the benefit of completely controlling when and where tortoises are able to get access to water? I understand your passion and reasoning for wanting to mimic their natural settings but you haven't really explained what adverse and negative effects that readily available water can do to tortoises/Sulcatas.
 

DeanS

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Where is the benefit of completely controlling when and where tortoises are able to get access to water? I understand your passion and reasoning for wanting to mimic their natural settings but you haven't really explained what adverse and negative effects that readily available water can do to tortoises/Sulcatas.
The benefit is growing perfect animals. NOBODY else that raises sulcata can claim perfection in their methods. Even the so-called best still have flaws in their methods. I'm not conceded...well maybe a little...but I've been doing this for ten years...and all my animals come out perfect! Look above at post #4 and check out the links I left there...then come back and we'll delve into it further! I'm not saying don't leave a water dish if that's your thing...I'm just saying it's not necessary!
 

Minority2

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The benefit is growing perfect animals. NOBODY else that raises sulcata can claim perfection in their methods. Even the so-called best still have flaws in their methods. I'm not conceded...well maybe a little...but I've been doing this for ten years...and all my animals come out perfect! Look above at post #4 and check out the links I left there...then come back and we'll delve into it further! I'm not saying don't leave a water dish if that's your thing...I'm just saying it's not necessary!

I've just finish going through your link and the one @Tom made for the same litter and honestly the variables that differ between your experiment and Tom's made it hard for me to really confirm or deny either one's data.

You encouraged feeding as much as possible with foods such as mazuri and whatever else they can their beaks on. Tom if I remember correctly, stuck to a natural diet with more portion control in an attempt to mimic his understanding as to how much Sulcata will naturally eat from foraging.

I don't think there is any official data to show Sulcata growth rates in the wild. So in a sense, none of us know whether or not faster growth rates may be better than slower ones. We as a society still do not have sufficient understanding of tortoises to really make that decision. I personally encourage feeding as much as they desire but I, like many others cannot say for certain that what we're doing is that much different than say farmers purposely breeding and modifying their pigs to become fatter than other similar wild species such as the more slimmer and muscular wild boar.

I think there are may be some indirect variables that are contributing to how smooth your tortoises are. And if you were to write up a care sheet there may be some difficultly for others in attempting to replicate your findings.

You mentioned that you leave you reptile heating panel set at 95F correct? Do you leave it on that setting all day and night or do you drop the temperature down like Tom did? That part of the study I would very like to know more about if you do much explaining that in great detail.
 

TechnoCheese

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WRONG! I've NEVER had tortoises flip over...it's ONLY common sense. In the wild, sulcata don't always have regular access to water. If they're being soaked once or twice a day...that's more water than they would EVER see in the wild. When I soak them, it's often in a kiddie pool with about 1/2 an inch of water...slightly tilted so a portion of it is dry. There's food on the dry end...half sun/half shade! This represents to a degree the marshes that SOME sulcata babies are hatched near. In the end, they're not dogs and cats...they're at the extreme opposite end of the pet spectrum! Don't humanize your tortoises...that won't bode well for them in the end!

But in the wild, they don’t get soaked once or twice a day. And who’s to say they always have food available? Or that when coming across a puddle or any source of water, they wouldn’t drink from from it?
 

DeanS

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But in the wild, they don’t get soaked once or twice a day. And who’s to say they always have food available? Or that when coming across a puddle or any source of water, they wouldn’t drink from from it?
Excellent point. When I raise a baby I didn't hatch, I research the manner in which it was incubated. More often than not, they hatch out onto vermiculite or some similar substrate...and it's not uncommon for them to ingest this stuff. @Tom and I dealt with some dire issues with some animals we received back in 2012...so this is why I soak babies regularly. Because they are in my care, they get optimum care daily! In the wild, they hardly get optimum care. But I like the direction you're going! ALWAYS important to think outside the box!
 

TechnoCheese

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Excellent point. When I raise a baby I didn't hatch, I research the manner in which it was incubated. More often than not, they hatch out onto vermiculite or some similar substrate...and it's not uncommon for them to ingest this stuff. @Tom and I dealt with some dire issues with some animals we received back in 2012...so this is why I soak babies regularly. Because they are in my care, they get optimum care daily! In the wild, they hardly get optimum care. But I like the direction you're going! ALWAYS important to think outside the box!

So if they don’t get optimal care in the wild, why shouldn’t they have a water bowl in captivity? That way they can self soak, it helps to raise humidity, they can drink, etc. Even when Curtis was a little baby and I was soaking him daily, I still caught him using his water bowl.
 

DeanS

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So if they don’t get optimal care in the wild, why shouldn’t they have a water bowl in captivity? That way they can self soak, it helps to raise humidity, they can drink, etc. Even when Curtis was a little baby and I was soaking him daily, I still caught him using his water bowl.
Are you in junior high school! I NEVER look up users histories...but your train of thought intrigued me. So I'm not going to carry on this debate...however I am going to congratulate you on some well thought out theories. But, I will say, if you choose to continue with a water bowl...go for it! In optimal conditions, sulcata would have water available all the time...but would not use it regularly. My methods have proved out some fantastic looking animals. I will continue going this route. I wish you luck with yours!
 

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