Bladder or kidney stone

[alejzp]

Hello all, I know this topic has been discussed several times but I wanted to give it a try and put some pictures for you owners with more experience to help me. I have had a sulcata tortoise for around 1 and half years already, she got here like in her first 6 months (I don't have her exact birth date), she lives in an indoor enclosure as I was told she should at least for the first 2 years of her life to control humidity and heat. She eats well and normally poops either once a day or every other day... lately she has taken even 3 days to poop but at the end she does it... I feed her with what I have found I should feed her with in this forum and with the help of a herpetologist friend. She normally eats grass or hay, Chinese cabbage (which she loves), escarole lettuce, romain lettuce, pumpkin, she loves radish greens (leaves) and I was also giving her some arugula lettuce (but then I was told they have many oxalates) and once in a while chard. She also gets sometimes dandalions and other weeds when I take her to my back yard and I provide also once in a while opuntia (paddle cactus or pear cactus)... I also sprinkle twice a week calcium.
I soak her every single day in lukewarm water... However last week after she pooped I found these four stones in the container where I soak her (I will provide pictures, one has my finger on it so that you could measure the size) they were some kind of greyish and white and hard as a real rock... then today she pooped one stone again...
With what I am providing as food do any of you think any of those foods could be provoking this problem? I was also told that maybe is our water (I live in Costa rica) which could be rich in minerals, however our water has always been said to be very potable...
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Yvonne G]

These are not bladder stones, but rather small rocks the tortoise has eaten. They eat dirt/rocks when the diet is lacking in minerals. You can fix that by using a product called Miner-all, mfg'd by Sticky Tongue Farms. Just a small pinch between index finger and thumb three ir four times a week

 

[alejzp]

These are not bladder stones, but rather small rocks the tortoise has eaten. They eat dirt/rocks when the diet is lacking in minerals. You can fix that by using a product called Miner-all, mfg'd by Sticky Tongue Farms. Just a small pinch between index finger and thumb three ir four times a week

Thanks for your reply... However she lives inside and when she goes outside I am next to her during the whole time because I am always afraid she might eat something she shouldn't and I have searched on my backyard and I don't have stones/rocks with that pattern or coloring... (grey/black and white)... I was searching of that Miner-All supplement but it says it is for insectivorous reptiles, it won't matter if she is a hervivorous? I attached a picture of the one I found on Amazon.

 

[alejzp]

These are not bladder stones, but rather small rocks the tortoise has eaten. They eat dirt/rocks when the diet is lacking in minerals. You can fix that by using a product called Miner-all, mfg'd by Sticky Tongue Farms. Just a small pinch between index finger and thumb three ir four times a week

Yvonne I have another question abusing your kindness, is the diet I am giving good? (according to what I wrote on my thread?) does any of those foods could provoke any kind of stone formation? what is your thought about arugula lettuce?

 

[KarenSoCal]

Those stones do not look anything like the stones that urates form. Urate stones are white/grayish, not dark with patterns. I think she is finding stones and eating them in some way you don't notice.

Any chance the stones are in the greens that you buy? I have found pebbles in grocery store food.

 

[alejzp]

Those stones do not look anything like the stones that urates form. Urate stones are white/grayish, not dark with patterns. I think she is finding stones and eating them in some way you don't notice.

Any chance the stones are in the greens that you buy? I have found pebbles in grocery store food.

Hello Karen, thanks for the answer... I don't think they come in the greens I buy because every day when I fix her salad I take leaf by leaf and wash it and make sure it has no bugs or anything like soil... could it be provoked by minerals in the water? which I don't think we have that many because we drink the water no problem down here, but could it be?

 

[Maggie3fan]

I have had 1 large Sulcata tortoise who had a very large bladder stone and it took quite some surgery to get it out...and he died because of the anesthesia. I fostered another with bladder stones about the size of cherry tomatoes...it ripped his cloaca...unknown result...but now I have a Sulcata who had a very bad start and I've had her for about 4 years now and I always allow her to escape her pen into the pond so she can swim and drink...she passed 3 bladder stones 2 days ago. And I tell you this because I freakin know what a bladder stone looks like, and feels like and how they kill...so with all the experience I can muster...those are NOT bladder stones. Bladder stones are white with an alabaster cast and loose powder and you can see how the calcium formed the layers of the stone. Bob's stone weighed almost 2 lbs I think, Y would remember. Keep your baby hydrated and stop worrying .

 

[KarenSoCal]

Hello Karen, thanks for the answer... I don't think they come in the greens I buy because every day when I fix her salad I take leaf by leaf and wash it and make sure it has no bugs or anything like soil... could it be provoked by minerals in the water? which I don't think we have that many because we drink the water no problem down here, but could it be?

Personally, I don't think minerals in the water could translate to bladder stones. I really think she is eating them.
I would start some Miner-all and see what happens (or actually, doesn't happen...more pebbles). In any case she isn't eating anything large or rough enough to do damage on the way out.

 

[Tom]

Hello all, I know this topic has been discussed several times but I wanted to give it a try and put some pictures for you owners with more experience to help me. I have had a sulcata tortoise for around 1 and half years already, she got here like in her first 6 months (I don't have her exact birth date), she lives in an indoor enclosure as I was told she should at least for the first 2 years of her life to control humidity and heat. She eats well and normally poops either once a day or every other day... lately she has taken even 3 days to poop but at the end she does it... I feed her with what I have found I should feed her with in this forum and with the help of a herpetologist friend. She normally eats grass or hay, Chinese cabbage (which she loves), escarole lettuce, romain lettuce, pumpkin, she loves radish greens (leaves) and I was also giving her some arugula lettuce (but then I was told they have many oxalates) and once in a while chard. She also gets sometimes dandalions and other weeds when I take her to my back yard and I provide also once in a while opuntia (paddle cactus or pear cactus)... I also sprinkle twice a week calcium.
I soak her every single day in lukewarm water... However last week after she pooped I found these four stones in the container where I soak her (I will provide pictures, one has my finger on it so that you could measure the size) they were some kind of greyish and white and hard as a real rock... then today she pooped one stone again...
With what I am providing as food do any of you think any of those foods could be provoking this problem? I was also told that maybe is our water (I live in Costa rica) which could be rich in minerals, however our water has always been said to be very potable...
Any help would be appreciated.

I agree with Yvonne's assessment. Those are stones the tortoise ate outside. Its just what they do. These were not produced by your tortoise.

Your diet sounds good. Try to add even more variety. Arugula is good once in while. So is spinach. Don't worry about oxalates. We were wrong about that.

 

[alejzp]

I agree with Yvonne's assessment. Those are stones the tortoise ate outside. Its just what they do. These were not produced by your tortoise.

Your diet sounds good. Try to add even more variety. Arugula is good once in while. So is spinach. Don't worry about oxalates. We were wrong about that.

OK great thanks @KarenSoCal, @maggie3fan and @Tom for your answers and help... that relieves me to know that they are not bladder/kidney stones... as for adding more variety to the diet, what else do you think I can provide? any help would be appreciated I really want to give her lots of different things but I'm not sure what else I could give her...

 

[KarenSoCal]

. as for adding more variety to the diet, what else do you think I can provide? any help would be appreciated I really want to give her lots of different things but I'm not sure what else I could give her...

OK, you asked for it . Here's a list of tort foods...a very long list. The list is not exactly organized 🤷‍♀️

Compiled by Tom:
Good foods for tortoises are "chicories," types of lettuce that are likely to be on the far side of the more common floppy green heads of lettuce most people buy. Anything labeled as simply "chicory" is good, as are radiccio, frisee, escarole, and endive; you might even find something labeled as dandelions. You may find a bag of "Spring" or "Spicy" mix that is good, just check the label to be sure it has some of the chicories I just mentioned. The leaves (just the leaves) of turnips and radishes are also good, as are carrot tops. Collards, mustard greens, bok choy, and other dark, leafy greens are okay as well. If you have any kind of Mexican/hispanic market near you, they will sell cactus, labeled "nopales." Cactus is a great food to rotate in the diet, as it is high in calcium.


You don't need to feed all of these at one time, just make sure your tortoise is getting access to different types of food. As you get more experienced, you can find the better types of food listed on the care sheets.

Here are a whole bunch of non-grocery store suggestions.

Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Nasturtium
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:

There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:

Category: Organic sourced diet items

kapidolofarms.com

"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes

Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html

Homegrown alfalfa

Mazuri Tortoise Chow

ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food

Ones that you can buy in every store:
Arugula
Lambs lettuce
Chicory
Kale
Mustard greens
Organic kohlrabi leafs
Organic carrot leafs
Organic radish leafs
Dandelions
Radiccio

Their main diet should be broad leaf weeds, succulents and grasses. Store bought foods are okay, but not the best. Collards and dandelions are a good food, but neither should be used every day. Check out the plant ID section for lots of ideas on weeds to feed. You can get spineless opuntia cactus pads from most Mexican grocery stores, or grow them yourself. You can also easily grow grape leaves, african hibiscus, regular hibiscus (if it will survive in your area), and mulberry leaves. You can try red apple, ice plant, and jade plant too. Also look into Gazania, pansies, nasturtiums, carnations, geraniums and many others. At the grocery store, favor endive and escarole, but also use cilantro, carrot tops, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, radiccio, swiss chard, watercress, parsley, all the lettuces, etc. Lots of variety is best. There are also tortoise "weed" seed mixes that you can grow. I like the "Testudo Mix" from Tortoisesupply.com.
Buckwheat; cactus; vetch; Mohave aster; creosote bush; desert four o’clock; tacoma stans; bladderpod; globe mallow; goldenhead; burro weed; so many things!