Tortoise Kidney Problems?

[alyssa lobello]

Hi all,

My tortoises blood came back a little rough? They aren’t sure what is going on yet but are concerned about her kidneys or possibly liver. They said it may be dehydration, and her muscle enzymes may be high because of fighting during her blood draw. She was started on ceftaz in case there is an injection and has had 4 of her 10 shots so far.
She is still eating but does not drink water (never really has). The vet thinks her blood work could also being showing she is dehydrated so more soaking may help and be the issue. She is being soaked for about 30 minutes every day. She passes urates most days although not everyday. They are smooth and sometimes a little thicker than liquid egg whites most days.
I’m hopeful that she will be ok since she is still eating and is very angry when getting her shots, so she still has energy.
Does anyone have any experience with anything like this?

 

[TammyJ]

@zovick

 

[zovick]

Hi all,

My tortoises blood came back a little rough? They aren’t sure what is going on yet but are concerned about her kidneys or possibly liver. They said it may be dehydration, and her muscle enzymes may be high because of fighting during her blood draw. She was started on ceftaz in case there is an injection and has had 4 of her 10 shots so far.
She is still eating but does not drink water (never really has). The vet thinks her blood work could also being showing she is dehydrated so more soaking may help and be the issue. She is being soaked for about 30 minutes every day. She passes urates most days although not everyday. They are smooth and sometimes a little thicker than liquid egg whites most days.
I’m hopeful that she will be ok since she is still eating and is very angry when getting her shots, so she still has energy.
Does anyone have any experience with anything like this?

I am not an expert on the blood chemistry of tortoises, so can't really comment on the bloodwork results you posted, but it sounds as though your tortoise is doing pretty well to me. The urates you describe seem to indicate a well-hydrated tortoise.

Why did you take the tortoise to the vet in the first place? Is that info in a different thread? If so, I am not making the connection so have no idea what you thought was wrong with it which necessitated the blood work.

Is the vet an exotics vet? And how much faith do you have in the vet? What possible infection caused the prescription for the ceftazidime injections?

 

[Tom]

Hi all,

My tortoises blood came back a little rough? They aren’t sure what is going on yet but are concerned about her kidneys or possibly liver. They said it may be dehydration, and her muscle enzymes may be high because of fighting during her blood draw. She was started on ceftaz in case there is an injection and has had 4 of her 10 shots so far.
She is still eating but does not drink water (never really has). The vet thinks her blood work could also being showing she is dehydrated so more soaking may help and be the issue. She is being soaked for about 30 minutes every day. She passes urates most days although not everyday. They are smooth and sometimes a little thicker than liquid egg whites most days.
I’m hopeful that she will be ok since she is still eating and is very angry when getting her shots, so she still has energy.
Does anyone have any experience with anything like this?

What species and what size tortoise?

 

[alyssa lobello]

What species and what size tortoise?

Russian tortoise, maybe 7 inches? I’ve had her 20 years

 

[alyssa lobello]

What species and what size tortoise?

I am not an expert on the blood chemistry of tortoises, so can't really comment on the bloodwork results you posted, but it sounds as though your tortoise is doing pretty well to me. The urates you describe seem to indicate a well-hydrated tortoise.

Why did you take the tortoise to the vet in the first place? Is that info in a different thread? If so, I am not making the connection so have no idea what you thought was wrong with it which necessitated the blood work.

Is the vet an exotics vet? And how much faith do you have in the vet? What possible infection caused the prescription for the ceftazidime injections?

I took her in because she has been a little slower than usual and eating a little less often. He took blood work and he said there was what looked like a slight infection started if I remember correctly plus the blood values being off. He wanted to try medication first to see if it might be infection based and if it helps first before doing anything more invasive, he mentioned a CT.
He is an exotic vet and actually performed an ovariectomy on her about 2 years ago when she was egg bound so I trust him a lot.

 

[Tom]

Russian tortoise, maybe 7 inches? I’ve had her 20 years

Oh... That info is paramount.

Russians are prone to bladder stones. Urates are formed as a by-product of protein digestion. In a dehydrated tortoise, they can concentrate and form stones, or get very pastey and thick. This is common in Russians, sulcatas and DTs. Two ways to reduce the formation of urates: 1. Less protein in the diet. 2. More hydration.

Daily soaks in this case are a great idea. Soaking more than is necessary will hurt nothing. Soaking less than is necessary could be fatal.

But why is your tortoise forming so many urates to begin with? FYI, urates have nothing to do with calcium intake. Given that, what is your tortoise eating? Clover? Plantain weeds? Mazuri? The symptoms tell me there is too much protein in the diet. Let's see if we can figure it out.

 

[alyssa lobello]

Oh... That info is paramount.

Russians are prone to bladder stones. Urates are formed as a by-product of protein digestion. In a dehydrated tortoise, they can concentrate and form stones, or get very pastey and thick. This is common in Russians, sulcatas and DTs. Two ways to reduce the formation of urates: 1. Less protein in the diet. 2. More hydration.

Daily soaks in this case are a great idea. Soaking more than is necessary will hurt nothing. Soaking less than is necessary could be fatal.

But why is your tortoise forming so many urates to begin with? FYI, urates have nothing to do with calcium intake. Given that, what is your tortoise eating? Clover? Plantain weeds? Mazuri? The symptoms tell me there is too much protein in the diet. Let's see if we can figure it out.

Yes mazuri… trying to ween her off the one she had and to grassland. And less of it as well. She is a big romaine eater so tried to get her something more nutritious but I went the wrong way with it. I’m trying to switch to things like dandelion, mustard and collard greens. She is ok with mustard.
I’ve been advised for 30 minute soaks a day with nothing added.
Thank you for your help, if you have any specifics and amounts I appreciate the advice.

 

[Tom]

Yes mazuri… trying to ween her off the one she had and to grassland. And less of it as well. She is a big romaine eater so tried to get her something more nutritious but I went the wrong way with it. I’m trying to switch to things like dandelion, mustard and collard greens. She is ok with mustard.
I’ve been advised for 30 minute soaks a day with nothing added.
Thank you for your help, if you have any specifics and amounts I appreciate the advice.

There is lots of good info in this thread, but scroll down to the food section. You need to get your head out of the grocery store and more into what's best for a tortoise. Russians eat pretty sparse stuff out in the wild. Rich grocery store produce full of the wrong chemical compounds, is not great for them. Look at #10, 26 and 30.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I took her in because she has been a little slower than usual and eating a little less often. He took blood work and he said there was what looked like a slight infection started if I remember correctly plus the blood values being off. He wanted to try medication first to see if it might be infection based and if it helps first before doing anything more invasive, he mentioned a CT.
He is an exotic vet and actually performed an ovariectomy on her about 2 years ago when she was egg bound so I trust him a lot.

What kind of medication?

 

[alyssa lobello]

What kind of medication?

Ceftaz

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Ceftaz

Zovick might be able to give an opinion on this. What dose? Injections, I assume?

 

[alyssa lobello]

Zovick might be able to give an opinion on this. What dose? Injections, I assume?

Yes, every 72 hours 10 doses. I think it’s 3 mL? I will have to check when I get home.

 

[zovick]

Zovick might be able to give an opinion on this. What dose? Injections, I assume?

That medication is normally used for respiratory infections and some others. In this case, I saw no need to use any antibiotics, since no infection, respiratory or otherwise, was even diagnosed. According to the OP, the vet prescribed it "in case there was an infection".

It probably won't hurt the tortoise, but without knowing what exactly is being treated, how will you know if it cures it or even has any real effect?

 

[alyssa lobello]

She had a ct scan and blood work checked today. She has multiple small masses in her pelvic region. Her lungs are compressed and she seem to have some edema.
He mentioned can we but my understanding was they usually don’t get cancer. She had her ovaries out but he said from what he can see they don’t look similar to follicles. He said it could be liver masses or something else infectious. She has still been eating and has had more energy since she started the antibiotic and daily soaking.
He is also starting her on milk thistle for her liver. Her ct is being sent out so no definite results for at least a few days.
Do you have any experience with anything that sounds similar?

 

[zovick]

She had a ct scan and blood work checked today. She has multiple small masses in her pelvic region. Her lungs are compressed and she seem to have some edema.
He mentioned can we but my understanding was they usually don’t get cancer. She had her ovaries out but he said from what he can see they don’t look similar to follicles. He said it could be liver masses or something else infectious. She has still been eating and has had more energy since she started the antibiotic and daily soaking.
He is also starting her on milk thistle for her liver. Her ct is being sent out so no definite results for at least a few days.
Do you have any experience with anything that sounds similar?

I don't have experience with anything similar to what your tortoise has, but I have had two tortoises which DID get cancer, so that is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[alyssa lobello]

I don't have experience with anything similar to what your tortoise has, but I have had two tortoises which DID get cancer, so that is not out of the realm of possibility.

I’m really sorry to hear that. Are there treatments for cancer in tortoises?

 

[zovick]

I’m really sorry to hear that. Are there treatments for cancer in tortoises?

The only treatment for cancer in tortoises of which I know is surgery. Unfortunately, it is hard to completely remove some cancers because of their location under the shell.

That is what happened in the case of one of my tortoises. The tortoise had bone cancer in its humerus which went back into the shoulder joint. The best exotic surgeon I know tried to remove it, but was unable to safely access the entire shoulder joint even after amputating the leg. The tortoise lived about 4-5 more years after the surgery, but ultimately died from the disease.

 

[alyssa lobello]

I’m afraid to have hope, but after her CT and vet visit she was more active afterwards and ate well.
Before the vet visit she was up earlier than she has been since this started, which use to be her normal pattern.
The vet mentioned she looked more hydrated and more active than she had been at her last visit.
Maybe it’s just from everything that occurred today, but I’m hoping she is getting a little better and has a chance.

 

[zovick]

I’m afraid to have hope, but after her CT and vet visit she was more active afterwards and ate well.
Before the vet visit she was up earlier than she has been since this started, which use to be her normal pattern.
The vet mentioned she looked more hydrated and more active than she had been at her last visit.
Maybe it’s just from everything that occurred today, but I’m hoping she is getting a little better and has a chance.

Good luck with your tortoise and its recovery.