Breeders and Group Keepers

[smarch]

Alrighty I know there's a few of you out there who keep larger groups of Russians as well as breed them. I'm interested in keeping a group in the future (taking in rescues) so i'm wondering how do you do it and how does it work? Things like enclousure size male/female ratios and other things I don't realize will be important.

I have one male right now, would he be able to be part of the group or would a male in it cause problems. I'd make sure it was a large outside space tons of hides and plants.

In the winter, I don't hibernate, they'd come inside to separate enclosures. Unless females could live in 3s in one? But in other words i'm aware of space requirements for all individual if needed.
I wouldn't specifically keep them in a group to breed, but I'd let it happen, so I guess I can worry about those specifics way down the road, but do people here incubate or leave to let naturally happen? And how often would mating happen/offspring would I be looking into each year?

I love Russians and would love more, which is why a little community seems like a solution, and I know people here do it. But if i'm looking way over my head i'll obviously listen and not do it, or just get a second male when the right one needs rescuing and keep things split for 2.

 

[leigti]

I know that @Tom and @Cowboy Ken have groups of Russians. I'm sure there are many others also. I have read here that it is a 1 to 3 ratio male to female preferred. Going strictly on ads that I have seen finding a rescue females may be much harder than rescue males. Of course I could be wrong. Good luck in your endeavor!

 

[Yvonne G]

I have 1.3 Russian tortoises in the same yard and the reason it works for me is because there are 3 females to one male and the yard is 40' long and 16' wide. There are several hiding places. When I first added the male he was very eager and aggressive towards the females, but after a couple of months he settled down and doesn't pester them so much. I would NEVER try to house this group indoors. If I had to keep them up over the winter, I would more than likely have to have four separate habitats.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Some 20 years ago when living in an apartment I used an 8 x 3 horse trough to house 2.3. It worked against the odds and I produced several hatchlings from that group. No UV light BTW, just high CRI tube (>90) and two 45 watt flood (not spot) indoor/outdoor bulbs. Not even possible by today's standards. The males and females took about a year to sort out their hiearchy. They were acquired from a larger group while all subadult. With ample food (as much as they could eat everyday) in a few years they grew large enough to breed. First neonates produced were found walking around with the adults, opps. Afterward I incubated eggs in an incubator. That was back when no one would buy hatchling Russians for $35, as "Big ones" at the store were $49.99. Just a deacde earlier (1980 something) Ron Tremper had brought in the first ones, literally from Russia, that had been available for several years, they sold for $200 each. Crazy!

 

[144 Grandpa Turtle]

Well if I was going to breed Russians or any torts I would keep them in at least 2 enclosures if one pen's tort gets sick I would only have to worry about that one the other pen wouldn't get sick . And I would make 2-3 small pens for the baby's.


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[Yellow Turtle01]

I have 1.3 Russian tortoises in the same yard and the reason it works for me is because there are 3 females to one male and the yard is 40' long and 16' wide. There are several hiding places. When I first added the male he was very eager and aggressive towards the females, but after a couple of months he settled down and doesn't pester them so much. I would NEVER try to house this group indoors. If I had to keep them up over the winter, I would more than likely have to have four separate habitats.

Whoa, just got to say, that's a HUGE yard! (for a russian!) I bet they like having so much room to roam.

 

[Abdulla6169]

Whoa, just got to say, that's a HUGE yard! (for a russian!) I bet they like having so much room to roam.

I'm trying to make a place for my Greek outside, whenever I try choosing a size, I tell my self its too small. Too small. When even though the area is more than enough. I feel like I want to provide acres and acres for him. I feel like I need to give him a natural habitat.

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

I'm trying to make a place for my Greek outside, whenever I try choosing a size, I tell my self its too small. Too small. When even though the area is more than enough. I feel like I want to provide acres and acres for him. I feel like I need to give him a natural habitat.

I know, I am constantly revising trying to decide how to give my guys more room, more living space I think that a big yard like Yvonne's would be amazing, but I feel like for just one guy it's very large. I know, torts is the wild don't HAVE a yard, and that that huge amount of space would replicate wild roaming very very well. I now feel like my russian's yard is giving him claustrophobia or something! It's 10x6, and he's only a single guy, but, he would be SO HAPPY with 40'!
I have heard though, that with small torts and big spaces, they tend to get 'lost'?

 

[Abdulla6169]

I know, I am constantly revising trying to decide how to give my guys more room, more living space I think that a big yard like Yvonne's would be amazing, but I feel like for just one guy it's very large. I know, torts is the wild don't HAVE a yard, and that that huge amount of space would replicate wild roaming very very well. I now feel like my russian's yard is giving him claustrophobia or something! It's 10x6, and he's only a single guy, but, he would be SO HAPPY with 40'!
I have heard though, that with small torts and big spaces, they tend to get 'lost'?

They don't get lost, we just need tracking devices. Haha

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Hahaha, I know I wouldn't be able to find him in such a big yard!

 

[puffy137]

I placed my female tort on a lawn & she was 'lost' until the next morning , feeding time , when she emerged from hiding for a couple of juicy Romain lettuce leaves, ( never iceburgs they have no nutrients). Gosh I never realised my torts are so valuable, must be aware of tortnappers from now on. At the open 'bird market' here the babies were going for 7 dinars , & the adults for 25 dinars . that means 24$ for a baby & $84 for an adult.

 

[smarch]

I know that @Tom and @Cowboy Ken have groups of Russians. I'm sure there are many others also. I have read here that it is a 1 to 3 ratio male to female preferred. Going strictly on ads that I have seen finding a rescue females may be much harder than rescue males. Of course I could be wrong. Good luck in your endeavor!

Oh you're right finding females is hard, and i know it so that is another factor i'd decide on, if I couldn't i'd just get a second male separate housing and all. I still have a few years to figure it out, I was just inquiring early so I could even know how it worked and all

 

[smarch]

I have 1.3 Russian tortoises in the same yard and the reason it works for me is because there are 3 females to one male and the yard is 40' long and 16' wide. There are several hiding places. When I first added the male he was very eager and aggressive towards the females, but after a couple of months he settled down and doesn't pester them so much. I would NEVER try to house this group indoors. If I had to keep them up over the winter, I would more than likely have to have four separate habitats.

That IS a nice yard! how do you keep it protected? here in MA we have tons of wildlife and mine has to be protected, Hawks, raccoons, coyotes and foxes (which possibly wouldn't show interest in tortoises but I'd never trust it), and all sorts of other smaller critters who could possibly find a tortoise yummy.

I'd never house the entire group together inside I know males mean the females need lots of space to hide which is impossible inside, but theoretically does anyone have success with a female group inside? Honestly i'd consider hibernation Just not with Nank because of his questionable past and not wanting to re-introduce hibernating after years of not (yeah I know that may not matter!) but i'd also miss him he's my "boy" even though he doesn't know/care about that bond I have to him lol.

Thanks for the input

 

[smarch]

Well if I was going to breed Russians or any torts I would keep them in at least 2 enclosures if one pen's tort gets sick I would only have to worry about that one the other pen wouldn't get sick . And I would make 2-3 small pens for the baby's.


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My intention wouldn't SPECIFICALLY be to breed them, I just know that it would happen and that's ok with me, but I wouldn't get all torn up if nothing hatched or they didn't mate type thing. I think somewhere inside I knew a sick pen is important but just never actually formulated the thought. Hatchling pens: how many would I expect to hatch assuming for now a 1:3 since its the minimum i'd have, 2-3 pens surprised me I assumed 1 would be ok so i'm glad you mentioned that (and I'd hit up the breeding section before I actually did do this if I would to get really in depth details on that and hatching)
Thanks

 

[Yvonne G]

I've seen raccoons, opossums, foxes and coyotes, but the only critters that come on the property are the 'possums. I have a big dog, and there is plenty of cactus planted around the outside of the fences.

 

[smarch]

I'm trying to make a place for my Greek outside, whenever I try choosing a size, I tell my self its too small. Too small. When even though the area is more than enough. I feel like I want to provide acres and acres for him. I feel like I need to give him a natural habitat.

Outside for Nank now, living with my parents, he goes in the old sandbox which is about 6'x6' which still is on the small side but better than his tank! Next summer I plan to cover the sand with topsoil, build up the walls some as to prevent looking out and get a wire top for protection and escape prevention and let him out all day in summers while I work!.... anxious about actually doing it though, always fear anything going wrong!

 

[smarch]

I've seen raccoons, opossums, foxes and coyotes, but the only critters that come on the property are the 'possums. I have a big dog, and there is plenty of cactus planted around the outside of the fences.

if only cactuses could survive the winters here! and yeah we actually do have animals all over our yard, we live in a woodsy area so we already know they're everywhere but we have at least one skunk living in the yard somewhere, I see run over possums on the road all the time but never actually saw one (same with the skunks but you smell them often) and we actually had to make our cat all indoor because of a fox that constantly strolled through the yard in the evening. We hear coyotes, they hear/smell the cows and raise some hell sometimes, and I know someone's dog who was eaten by one in the day time also fisher cats... man those things sound scary.... jeeze i'm scaring myself out of even wanting to put Nank out during the day! Only thing we don't hear of often is bears (I guess that's good news!)

 

[puffy137]

I'm trying to make a place for my Greek outside, whenever I try choosing a size, I tell my self its too small. Too small. When even though the area is more than enough. I feel like I want to provide acres and acres for him. I feel like I need to give him a natural habitat.

Hi Abdulla , As long as he has a deep enough place to dig in , & the right food etc , you are living in the ideal place for tortoise health & I suspect not many predators to worry about.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Some 20 years ago when living in an apartment I used an 8 x 3 horse trough to house 2.3. It worked against the odds and I produced several hatchlings from that group. No UV light BTW, just high CRI tube (>90) and two 45 watt flood (not spot) indoor/outdoor bulbs. Not even possible by today's standards. The males and females took about a year to sort out their hiearchy. They were acquired from a larger group while all subadult. With ample food (as much as they could eat everyday) in a few years they grew large enough to breed. First neonates produced were found walking around with the adults, opps. Afterward I incubated eggs in an incubator. That was back when no one would buy hatchling Russians for $35, as "Big ones" at the store were $49.99. Just a deacde earlier (1980 something) Ron Tremper had brought in the first ones, literally from Russia, that had been available for several years, they sold for $200 each. Crazy!

This reminds me, in 2012 I spent a few months in Moscow (Russia not Idaho) and found baby russian torts readily available, all so perfect and uniform from one store to another, and all 'technically' illegal to have in pet shops. Then we went to the new famous bird mart of Moscow, and there were thousands of small russian torts, at what roughly cost $8 each. Online, with trainstation meet-up, several other species were available too, even WC adult Egyptians for about $100, some Libyan Greek for $250, and many others. Our USFWS guys would have gone crazy. No CITES process is available, not even for Zoos, so really just not available, it's all on the sly there.

 

[puffy137]

I heard that tortoises are state protected in Israel , but I'm pretty sure in the rest of the Middle East they are not. My first babies were bought in an open air market & I'm pretty sure they made their way to the Gulf on the fruit & vegetable trucks that bring in goods regularly from Syria or Jordan .