Brought my tort to the vet for RI.. Need opinions please..

[pickadillydo]

I was finally able to get Silas into a vet yesterday morning.. She gave him 2 xrays and did some blood work..The blood work showed he was a little stressed but she said thats something that the right temps and surroundings will help.. one xray looked good but the one of his lungs showed there was a little fluid in his left lung (probably because it took me a week to find a vet that had time to see him, poor boy).. Anyway..She gave me an injectible perscription called Fortaz and I have to give it to him once every 72 hrs for 3 weeks.. He got his first injection at the vets yesterday at noon.. at 4pm I brought him outside for a little "real" sun and he seemed to love it.. he walked around like he was on a mission.. We were out there for about 30 min.. then around 6ish he actually ate.. first time in 2 days.. It wasnt alot but it was something.. he went back to his dish 4 times that night..I was so happy.. This morning I soaked him.. He doesnt like it much now that hes sick and he seems to cry when I put him in the water (he sounds like a little baby dinosaur) and tries to get out and falls while trying so I take him out because I dont want to stress him anymore than he already is.. he has been in 10 gal tank so I can make sure hes staying warm.. His normal home is a 40gallon.. I have aspen as the substrate.. a little water dish and 2 wet paper towels folded at the hot end to make the humidity a little higher.. the vet said the hotter end is good around 95 and the cooler at like 85ish.. BUT..I can not seem to get it like that.. the hot end is usually 87 to 90 and the cool end is around 78.. I did put another lamp at the hot end to raise it but it goes upto almost 102 so I took it off.. I need suggestions and opinions please.. He did eat 2 pieces of a green bean today but that was it and he only ate it when i brought him outside.. he didnt want to eat it in his cage.. He still seems a little off balance and still gasps for air.. and still has mucus coming from his mouth and nose once in a while.. especially when he eats.. How long does it take this medicine to work to really see improvements? I read somewhere on here that Baytril which Fortaz is related to, supresses the appetite.. is that true? The vet told me if I dont see an improvement when his medication is done they are going to put him on a different one that has to be administered everyday for how long I dont remember.. I am desperate for advice so please please please give me some..
Thank you
Jamie

 

[Torty Mom]

How about when you are soaking him you place your hand on the back of his shell. He may feel more secure and not stress so much or try to get out, you can also gently scoop water over his shell and talk to him softly to reassure him. Yep Lou is spoiled, 5 star spa treatment at my house! LOL! Lou was super sick when I got him and I was soaking him ALOT, he hated it at first and now he will often take a nap. Make sure he doesn't get a chill after his soak. You can also try to cover the cooler end of the tank with a piece of cloth and see if that helps keep some of the warmth in. Watch those temps though 10 gal tanks can get pretty hot pretty fast! Keep up the good work, he is lucky to have you! If he still doesn't want to eat, you can always try some of his favorites munchies! I hope he is better soon!!!

 

[pickadillydo]

How about when you are soaking him you place your hand on the back of his shell. He may feel more secure and not stress so much or try to get out, you can also gently scoop water over his shell and talk to him softly to reassure him. Yep Lou is spoiled, 5 star spa treatment at my house! LOL! Lou was super sick when I got him and I was soaking him ALOT, he hated it at first and now he will often take a nap. Make sure he doesn't get a chill after his soak. You can also try to cover the cooler end of the tank with a piece of cloth and see if that helps keep some of the warmth in. Watch those temps though 10 gal tanks can get pretty hot pretty fast! Keep up the good work, he is lucky to have you! If he still doesn't want to eat, you can always try some of his favorites munchies! I hope he is better soon!!!

I got the temp to 92 by putting tinfoil around one side of the heat lamp so the heat doesnt escape.. Hes been gasping for air quite a bit tonight fo some reason and its kind of scareing me.. when he does open his mouth he makes this little squeak.. to me he seems a little off balance.. is this part of an RI? Does anyone know long it take for the medicine to start working?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

There's really no set time that it takes the medicine to start working. I would put him back in his 40 gallon and put foil over the top to keep the heat in. That should cut down on some of the stress. I understand why you have him in the 10 but he doesn't and it is stressing him and scaring him. Baytril and Fortaz give them upset stomaches. So that why they stop eating. I like to use Naxcel instead that way they don't stop eating but oh well too late for that now. I would give him a warm soak every morning and it seems like he enjoys being outside so take him out. Does he have a set up outside so you can just leave him out? Sun is really the best thing for them. A warm soak in the morning and a day in the sun really works wonders. Can he graze outside?

 

[Laura]

i would also offer something besides green beans.. that is not the best...
hope he does ok..

 

[ascott]

Hi....sooo happy to hear you and Silas made it to the vet! You said here that you added a second light for heat but the temps went too high, did you try to raise that second light up away until you achieve the temp you want? I too would think that you would want to let him go back into his regular tank....less stress the best right now.

Sounds as though he loves being in the natural sun....as much as possible would greatly benefit him...plus that will also help to "normally" increase their appetite....

I have one question? You said you have 2 wet paper towels in the tank on the hot side? you don't mean where Silas can crawl onto do you? I know, maybe a dumb question, but I was not sure so I asked

Did I tell you how happy I am to hear you two are doing treatment, I hope all will work out well...and I am glad you posted...was really wanting to hear his update

 

[bikerchicspain]

I am not a fan of baytril, I always use Marbocyl and that works really well, one tort that had RI had 10 injections, it was one every 48 hours.

 

[pickadillydo]

Thanks for the posts.. I have 2 wet paper towels folded to make it a little more humid and yes he can get on them.. Not much I can do to keep him off of them.. anyways.. I am getting all the temps right in the 40 gal so i can put him back in there.. I dont want him stressing anymore.. I do have a question.. I never see Silas drink when I soak him.. do they absorb water through their skin? This morning when I soaked him he didnt seem to fight it thank goodness and I noticed he passes a little urates.. is that ok? Right now I checked the new cage and the hot side is between 97 and 101 and the cooler side is 96 and I know thats to hot.. what are the ideal temps so I have this right? Unfortunately today is very cool and gloomy out.. now sun so Im not bringing him out today.. I was hoping the sun would come out for just a bit so I could get him to eat.. ugh.. He can graze outside and no I dont have something I can just leave him in yet.. I usually sit out there with him for about 30 min and read a book.. I talked to the vet today and she said hes going to get worse before he gets better and when it comes to pneumonia it might take upto a month before he gets better.. Sheesh.. I didnt think it would take that long.. and then she said if he doesnt respond well to this medicine then shell have to put him on something else.. I know a lady that has worked with all sorts of wildlife for the past 45 yrs and knows a ton of stuff and she said with her tortoises they get baytril and it works fast.. I wonder why the vet didnt give that to Silas.. I know hes only had 1 shot and has quite a few left to go I was just hoping id see a little improvement but I dont.. I guess im just impatient and the vet said to be patient because it might take a while.. She said as long as his living conditions are right hell only get better.. so please tell me the perfect temps for a 40 gal breeder tank.. Thank you!

 

[egyptiandan]

Silas has a lower respiratory infection, in that it's gotten down into the lungs and isn't in the nose and associated passages. These take much longer to treat and much longer to show signs of improvement.
Not all tortoises go off food when getting Baytril/Fortaz. I've found it's about 50/50 with who goes off food and who doesn't.
Well when the tortoise is sick and receiving antibiotics you want his body temperature up 24/7 to boost their immune system to help the antibiotic work better. What your looking for is a temperature of around 86F day and night. Best way to do that is with a ceramic heat emitter, which you can use day and night. You can use a flourscent light for during the day. This is temporary and just for while Silas is getting the antibiotics. Of course you can bring him outside on sunny days.

Danny

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Put him back into his 40 gallon and use the foil on half of it and see what happens. Use it over the hot side and leave the cool side open. If you can, get a CHE or use a black light bulb for the 24/7 heat. I am not a Vet but I disagree with her on he will get worse before he gets better. That has not happened in my experience and I can't tell you how many animals I have treated with an URTI. But I use Naxcel. I make the hot side 100-105 and the cool side no cooler than 80. Danny is saying 86 degrees but I think he needs to be warmer. 86 is in the middle. So you have 2 opinions, you use what sounds best for you to use. Danny and I are both experienced . The aim is to get him warm and keep them there. I give a warm soak every morning and yes, I do believe they soak water in thru their cloaca and the soft skin under their necks. Be consistent in your care. I sometimes use a soft yellow light bulb so the light is not too harsh on them. To me it's less stressful. Good luck, remember you have us here for you...oh...keep offering him his normal food, feed him something better then beans. He needs something way better then beans.

 

[pickadillydo]

Thanks Danny.. Well I moved Silas into his 40 gal tank and he seems much happier.. Hes not walking around really but hes not trying to get out like he was in the 10 gal and constantly flipping over onto his back.. He kept me up all night lastnight doing that.. I had to keep getting up and putting him back on his belly.. Im sure thats not very good for him either.. especially with his breathing problem.. I do notice on occasion when he looks like hes gasping, he thrashes about for a second probably because he cant breath.. Poor little guy Im a stressed out worried mess.. I even brought him in his 10gal tank to work today to keep an eye on him.. Uva/uvb bulb, heat emitter and all lol.. I even drove in my car without the air conditioner to keep the car nice and hot and boy was I sweating! Im nervous to give him his shot tomorrow.. the vet said just to pop it through the skin in his leg.. I have to pull his front leg out and do it in the skin that connects the leg to the neck area.. its hard to explain.. anyway wish me luck.. ugh.. Do you know why it doesnt go into the muscle and just through the skin? Just curious because Ive read alot about people putting it into the muscle..

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BTW Maggie.. the only thing he will eat right now is green beans so thats better than nothing.. Ive tried many many different things and he doesnt want them.. he didnt eat today unfortunately.. I likes to eat in the back yard under the warmth of the sun and it was gloomy and rainy all day.. Grrrr...

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Put him back into his 40 gallon and use the foil on half of it and see what happens. Use it over the hot side and leave the cool side open. If you can, get a CHE or use a black light bulb for the 24/7 heat. I am not a Vet but I disagree with her on he will get worse before he gets better. That has not happened in my experience and I can't tell you how many animals I have treated with an URTI. But I use Naxcel. I make the hot side 100-105 and the cool side no cooler than 80. Danny is saying 86 degrees but I think he needs to be warmer. 86 is in the middle. So you have 2 opinions, you use what sounds best for you to use. Danny and I are both experienced . The aim is to get him warm and keep them there. I give a warm soak every morning and yes, I do believe they soak water in thru their cloaca and the soft skin under their necks. Be consistent in your care. I sometimes use a soft yellow light bulb so the light is not too harsh on them. To me it's less stressful. Good luck, remember you have us here for you...oh...keep offering him his normal food, feed him something better then beans. He needs something way better then beans.

So I did put him back in there.. I can get it upto 90 on the hot side and 84 on the cool side.. Thats with a 100 watt ceramic heat emitter.. with the 150 watt it 108 on the hot side and around 90/92 on the cooler side.. Which is better.. I have tried to get it a little lower than 108 but 90 is all I can do and I have been using 4 different bulbs!.. Do you know how else i can get him to eat? Should I get a dropper and feed him baby food? Just by squirting it on his tounge? he needs something.. I think if he had food in him hed start feeling a little better.. hes just so week.. I know for a fact he wouldnt be this bad off if 1 of the 4 vets could have gotten him in when i called.. I guess he wasnt important enough to fit him in..

 

[ascott]

Hi...you can lower or raise the heating light closer or farther away from the basking/hot side to hit your 100° target...with him having a deep RI I would not the wet paper towels be in the bottom of his enclosure (you risk him ingesting pieces of the paper towel along with you have him against the direct wtness while he is already too wet in the lungs....I would think taking him back and forth in the car is undo stress (just my opinion) also...if you go on youtube and type in giving my turtle/tortoise an injection you will find there is a couple of great visual aid videos that will show you exactly how to do it along with techniques for your hands and so on...once you do it, no sweat and when he reacts...hold steady so he does not wiggle while the needle is in....also...don't lush the needle into the muscle..as that would give him one hell of a knee jerk reaction....you can try to force feed him. If you are up for it...I would focus on the temps and the soaking (yes they do absorb through their skin)...sun at every oppotunity...the appetite will come if these other things happen...patience is the word...and I don't agree with the vets "it will get worse before it gets better" statement at all......

 

[pickadillydo]

Yeah I didnt think the it gets better before it gets worse was right.. weird.. The only reason I bring him to work is that I am so worried hes going to flip on his back and be there for the 5 hrs Im gone.. Since I put him in the 40gal he hasnt flipped over yet and hes been in there for about 5 hrs.. I had to get groceries and about 2 hours in to shopping I got this awful feeling and had the neighbor go in my house to make sure Silas wasnt on his back.. Thank goodness he wasnt.. I bought babyfood carrots and squash and and an eye dropper so I gave him a little bit of them warmed.. not to much because I didnt want him to stress.. I think Ill just do it through out the day to try to get his appetite back or atleast maybe give him a little energy.. Do you think I should just leave him home and risk him flipping over? I have no clue what to do..

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Yeah I didnt think the it gets better before it gets worse was right.. weird.. The only reason I bring him to work is that I am so worried hes going to flip on his back and be there for the 5 hrs Im gone.. Since I put him in the 40gal he hasnt flipped over yet and hes been in there for about 5 hrs.. I had to get groceries and about 2 hours in to shopping I got this awful feeling and had the neighbor go in my house to make sure Silas wasnt on his back.. Thank goodness he wasnt.. I bought babyfood carrots and squash and and an eye dropper so I gave him a little bit of them warmed.. not to much because I didnt want him to stress.. I think Ill just do it through out the day to try to get his appetite back or atleast maybe give him a little energy.. Do you think I should just leave him home and risk him flipping over? I have no clue what to do..

Ooops.. I meant it gets worse before it gets better Haha!

 

[ascott]

Hi I personally feel that your flipping tortoise (LOL) was likely due to the change of enclosure (he was not flipping before the smaller enclosure, right?). I TOTALLY understand you being in this state of "crazy" and worried about him and wanting to have him with you every second but I believe he will be fine....do I know for certain, no, there are no guarantees...BUT I think that the undo stress will certainly not be beneficial...tortoises are so creatures of habit/routine...again, this is strictly my opinion.

Did you go on youtube and find the video of them giving the injection for tortoise/turtle? I found it very helpful, just to see someone doing it gave me great confidence....

Also, if you have a neighbor who does not mind being your "nursemate" and peek in on Silas, then hey!!!! you have a partner in the process and how cool it that?

Any food/nutrition you can get in him (without too much of a fight) would also be beneficial.....You are doing fine. I would not be too mad at the stupid vets that would not get you in sooner, you obviously did not meet the one with a heart for your situation...but you did good getting the meds started...and that is sooooooooo important.

Hey, can you post a pic of Silas?

 

[pickadillydo]

I would post a picture but not sure how to do it.. Hmmmmm..... So weird.. lastnight his tank went down to 84 on the hot side and I purposely didnt turn the air conditioning on to make sure it stayed up.. ugh.. He was in the same spot this morning that he was when I went to bed at midnight..I picked him up a minute ago and put him in his bath under his basking spot.. went to warm up his food and came back in..wrapped him in a towel and went to feed him and I think he died..his head is way back in his shell.. but his eyes are open.. Ive been trying to move him but hes not responding to anything.. no blinking, no gasping for air .. I put him back in his bath.. came back here to type this and walked over there again and he moved his head for a sec.. probably to let me know he wasnt gone yet.. I think he is dying though because he looks so different than hes ever looked.. His head is laying on the inside of his shell and above his head is huge gap between his shell and his head..maybe because hes emaciated? I have to go get ready for work now so Ill keep you updated..

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I would start giving him baby food soaks. Get a small container and put in a jar of carrots and put enough warm water up to his bridge and let him soak in it for about 30 minutes. Put a light over it so he doesn't get cold. I have used many babyfood soaks on sick animals and it really helps...

 

[Shelly]

Baytril and Fortaz give them upset stomaches.

Only if given orally. Not if given as an injection.

 

[pickadillydo]

I would start giving him baby food soaks. Get a small container and put in a jar of carrots and put enough warm water up to his bridge and let him soak in it for about 30 minutes. Put a light over it so he doesn't get cold. I have used many babyfood soaks on sick animals and it really helps...

He died.. thats what I posted this morning.... I left him in his cage with all the heatlamps on while I went to work.. I knew he was dead but it was the "just incase he wasn't" thing.. When I came home at 2 rigor mortis had set in.. he looks so perfect and peaceful.. When my husband gets home Im going to bury him..
Rest In Peace Silas..my sweet boy <3

 

[Laura]

wow,, another loss and someone who tried so hard..
so sorry..

 

[dmmj]

Sorry to hear about that