Captive Bred Vs Wild Caught

Tom

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Cool! I didn't know that. I don't like WC tortoises. Now, I have captured many reptilian of Utah over the last few years and some I have kept forever. I have no problem with that, because we are careful to not take any endangered species. And we treat them the best we can. BUT when they take WC torts out of the wild. They are almost whipping out there natural range. Also they treat the torts VERY poorly, they are all put into boxes where they are literally climbing on top of each other! I have 0 problem with taking animals out of there natural habitat. As long as you are RESPECTFUL of the animal. These people clearly are not. Oh well, if I had known that I would have bought another one. But I'm NOT giving my beautiful torts up now. NO WAY :)

You've been misinformed by animal rights groups about how wild caught tortoises are transported and treated. There is a commonly shown picture of a bunch of tortoises being transported in the way you describe, and they lead the reader to believe that this is how its done, when in fact that was an illegal shipment that was caught while they were trying to smuggle them. In fact, russians are packed individually in large padded and insulated shipping containers. It is in the sellers best interest to make sure they arrive in as good of condition as possible, so they take care to do it right.

They are also not over harvesting according to the data that we've got. The russian tortoise has a HUGE range, and we really aren't bringing in all that many.

Without bringing in some WC some of the time, we could have no CB tortoises at all. I think everyone will agree that we need to care for them properly and we should not be taking too many from the wild, but this picture is not as bad as you think it is.
 

JoesMum

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Without bringing in some WC some of the time, we could have no CB tortoises at all.
We have managed to have captive bred in Europe for decades without importing wild caught. In my opinion the US is way behind in this, but I am not going to argue with you about it.

I think everyone will agree that we need to care for them properly and we should not be taking too many from the wild
Completely agree
 

KatyshaB

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We have managed to have captive bred in Europe for decades without importing wild caught. In my opinion the US is way behind in this, but I am not going to argue with you about it.


Completely agree
I agree. The US is behind in LOTS of things. Tortoises, Law, PRESIDENTS you name it. And Tom I like that better, as long as you carefully choose where you buy your tort, I think it's perfectly fine. As long as you hold it out with repect.
 

Crzt4torts

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The behavioral traits you discuss are not indicators of CB or WC. I've seen dog tame WCs and I've seen very shy CBs. This is more of an individual tortoise personality thing, coupled with what experiences they have had interacting with humans in their life time. I have 20 russians right now. They are 3 years old and I raised them all from CB hatchlings. They are all marked with color dots, so I can easily tell them apart. Some dig very well and frequently, while others never dig at all. Some climb everything they can find, others stay firmly on the ground. Some run away at the sight of me, some are indifferent to my presence, and others run toward me to beg for food. Some let me pet their heads or legs, some withdraw at my touch.

Some of them initially freaked out about soaking and some don't care from day one. All of them relaxed about the soaking within a few days of me doing it daily when they were babies.

Most pet stores claim CB, when in fact they are really WC. There are very rarely adult CB russians for sale in a pet shop. It takes years for them to reach adult size, so where would the pet store get a steady supply of 5-10 year old tortoises to sell? What would it cost for someone to raise a tortoise for 10 years and then sell it to a pet shop at a wholesale price?

What you are seeing with your tortoises is more likely due to individual personality differences, than to WC or CB.
What do you use for color dots?
 

KatyshaB

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My daughters nail polish. Just a dot in the middle of a scute.
Hello. I have not been on in a while. I have thought about some things. First off, you said earlier that My male tortoise could just be showing signs on dominance towards another male. I have pondered this, and I do not think this is true, now I could be wrong, so if I am please correct me. When I first put my female tortoise in the cage, my male was ON IT, he started RIGHT AWAY. Also, he changed his position of his tail, so it was no longer at it's usual position of being on the side, it was under him, so he could reach her tail to breed. Now unless he is homosexual. I do believe they where mating. Also EVERY SINGLE time he smells her, he is ON IT. Now, I'm not sure, but I do believe that two tortoises of the same gender act this way towards each other (as is, they are so aggressive every time they see one another they are ON IT).

One time, I let my male walk around so that he would stop hibernating, and he walked by my females cage, and smelled her, and spent the rest of the time walking around her cage with his tail out. He was THAT serious. Now, from everything I just said, I would believe that they are two different genders. (I am not saying that this is gonna get me eggs, but that at least one of them is trying)

My question is, witch one is sexually mature? For, I would think my male was, but then again, something triggered him to mate with her, so, is my female producing hormones that attracts my male? Or is there other ways for tortoises to detect each other, and see there gender? I want to see if at least ONE of my tortoises is sexually mature, because they are showing signs of breeding. But witch one is mature. Thank you for taking time to read this. I know I can probably be annoying.
 
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