Care of My Spotted Turtles

[Anthony P]

Hey guys,

Here is a little video that I made per request of some youtube viewers whom asked me to explain my Spotted Turtle (Clemmys guttata) care.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSo1BpPlr2s

And here is a pic of one of my more orange juvenile females.

Thanks for looking,

Anthony

 

[Redfoot NERD]

May I post a few pics of when I worked with them from '99 - '08 Anthony ? Hatched a few...

 

[Anthony P]

Ofcourse! I don't mind at all.

I would post more pics myself, but the files are all very large and I need to crop them to make them fit.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Tradition is to start at the top and work down.. I stand corrected.. these are the last from April '07 and then sold out shortly after that -



Anthony will explain what true F2's are...

 

[Anthony P]

I love your hatchling pics Terry. So beautiful.

F2s are captive bred individuals that were produced from parents that were captive bred themselves.

Many of my C. guttata are F2s. All of my group are captive bred. So, when I breed them, I will be producing F2s and F3s!

Here's hoping.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I love your hatchling pics Terry. So beautiful.

F2s are captive bred individuals that were produced from parents that were captive bred themselves.

Many of my C. guttata are F2s. All of my group are captive bred. So, when I breed them, I will be producing F2s and F3s!

Here's hoping.

The above are second generation from a female that hatched here... g'ma was still around making babies still.. in '05 she laid 5 clutches totaling 12 eggs.. 11 fertile.. 10 hatched - she was just shy 4" scl -



Her last clutch from '05 below -



Does captive bred mean captive hatched Anthony? The babies and the nickel came from a female that hatched here.. what does that make them in your book?

Just want to verify in case there may be confusion Sir -

 

[Millerlite]

Yeah captive bred means hatched and raised on captivity, then they lay eggs and those babies are F2 lines. F1 would be if you have wc adults that laid and then you get eggs and hatch.

Spotted turtles look very fun to keep, one day I'll have a little set up for them and have some.

Kyle


Check out my site and channel:
Www.tortoise-spot.webs.com
Www.youtube.com/tortoisespot

 

[Anthony P]

In my mind, captive bred means harvested and hatched in captivity, from captive adults. It's all pretty self explanatory.

However, where the tricky part comes in, is "captive hatched." The snapping turtles I released this Summer were captive hatched, not captive bred. Those eggs came from wild parents.

I would also group in hatchlings that came from gravid females taken from the wild. For instance some of the only offspring for some species, were taken from fresh imports that dropped fertile eggs for importers shortly after arrival. In a classified ad, those hatchlings would be called CB, but as far as I'm concerned, they are captive hatched only, because the breeding part did not take place in captivity.

 

[Millerlite]

In my mind, captive bred means harvested and hatched in captivity, from captive adults. It's all pretty self explanatory.

However, where the tricky part comes in, is "captive hatched." The snapping turtles I released this Summer were captive hatched, not captive bred. Those eggs came from wild parents.

I would also group in hatchlings that came from gravid females taken from the wild. For instance some of the only offspring for some species, were taken from fresh imports that dropped fertile eggs for importers shortly after arrival. In a classified ad, those hatchlings would be called CB, but as far as I'm concerned, they are captive hatched only, because the breeding part did not take place in captivity.

I can agree with this. It's crazy how I see people get wc or imported turtles and then get eggs very shortly and they hatch. Just the stress the turtles been through, and it still found away to reproduce. Very reliant animals


Check out my site and channel:
Www.tortoise-spot.webs.com
Www.youtube.com/tortoisespot

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Terminology can separate a conversation... and I did not mean to lead your thread down a dead-end road Anthony. I did want to discuss for those new at this.. the difference in captive and wildcaught hatchlings.

Your statement below is confusing to me -

In my mind, captive bred means harvested and hatched in captivity, from captive adults.

Do you mean "harvested" from the wild.. aka wild caught [ most likely gravid when taken from the wild ].. she lays eggs and they hatch. Old school calls those hatchlings captive hatched.. but not captive bred. I think that's what you said earlier.

Captive bred [ in hard-core theory ] is when a pair of hatchlings from different bloodlines grow up and breed [ usually 7 years later ] and produce hatchlings - those hatchlings would be true F1 that were "true" Captive Bred and Captive Hatched. When another un-related male is introduced 7 years later and breeds with the true F1 female she will produce true F2 hatchlings. You then have true F2 CB / CH hatchlings - providing none of the females ever leave their original breeding location. And some of these hard-core old school science heads claim gramma has to be alive and in your presence.. where she started the lineage!

The real tricky part is reducing this process down to only 7 years or so.. because these females do in fact retain sperm for more than 1 or 2 years.. I know for a fact as I was without a mature male for 2 full [ more like 3-4 waiting for a young male to mature ] breeding seasons and my females continued to make babies!

So.... to answer my question: I acquired a WC female in late fall of 1999 and she lays eggs in the spring of 2000 and they hatch and 7 years later [ unrelated male ] one of those babies makes babies in 2007 as posted.. what are the last babies?

 

[Anthony P]

In this statement: "In my mind, captive bred means harvested and hatched in captivity, from captive adults." I did not mean harvested from the wild. Even in our backyards, basements, turtle rooms, etc, we harvest the eggs for incubation. That's all I was saying. Another word for producing, then collecting...

To answer your last question, those babies would be F2s.

I only think of babies being "Captive Hatched" if they came from adults that were not stable in captivity. If a turtle comes in gravid, any hatchlings produced should be considered captive hatched, in my opinion.

So, the next question becomes, how long does a female need to be in captivity. If we needed to come up with something, I would say the time it takes for a female to produce eggs. Did she come in gravid or not? If you got her 2 months prior, and she lays, those are captive bred, in my mind. It is a tricky timeline, and its still hairy even in my mind, but if I had to break it down to how I think of it, that's basically it.

Feel free to agree or disagree

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Yup.. talking with your thumbs is entirely different than using your "phone"??? to talk with your mouth.

You youngsters speak a different language... .. and I like you Anthony because you have respect for this old senior!

When you open this link you'll see the "super-female" that made 10 hatchlings in 3 months.. just keep hitting the back arrow and note the dates in the lower right of the pic... it is a reasonable chronological order of her egg laying!

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/cle...t=3&o=22&_suid=138136775935901694803259735742

Can you believe these hatchlings?







The below was basically the group that produced about 60 hatchlings from 2000 - 2005... I lost the ALPHA male overwinter of '05 - '06 and only one female made 5-6 hatchlings in '06 and '07.

I sold them all as a group in early '08.. [ hit the forward arrow ]..

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/cle...=3&o=0&_suid=13813688322650037504303523539395

Just looking at these brings a heavy heart... thanks for allowing me to share a bit of my past with you .. the common love of "Swamps, bogs, and vernal pools"!!!

Keep up the great work

 

[Anthony P]

I love all of the photos!

And I am happy my starting this thread brought back some of your Clemmys memories. Please feel free to keep sharing here. Your pics gave my little thread some good substance that I could not had come close to mustering on my own. Good stuff!

Those hatchlings are breathtaking though. Did you ever hear from buyers as to what they ended up looking like?

No guttata I ever produced has looked close to as special as those!

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Late 2011 I reached out and acquired a few spotteds thinking I would do them again. This is the young male I had.. wish I had known you then Anthony -







I've never seen a more perfect "mirror-image".. from a Southern locale..



He was exquisite!

Two of his young girlfriends -

 

[Anthony P]

Wow! They are exquisite. That male was very striking.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Again to show all how striking these "Swamps, bogs, and vernal pools" creatures can be...

Michigan male -





My personal preference was those from South Carolina -



.. with those huge "single" spots per scute -



And one of those 3 yr. old hatchlings with the "dashes" on her head ( instead of spots ) -





My Alpha male -



His main female -



Typical territory -



I could go on and on...

Let's see yours Anthony!

 

[Anthony P]

I'll see what I can gather... All of my photos are too big, so just posting one can be such a pain in itself.

Great photos Terry. Beautiful.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I'll see what I can gather... All of my photos are too big, so just posting one can be such a pain in itself.

Great photos Terry. Beautiful.

Thanks.. but you don't have any software/program that can re-size those pics?

 

[theTurtleRoom]

I'll see what I can gather... All of my photos are too big, so just posting one can be such a pain in itself.

Great photos Terry. Beautiful.

Thanks.. but you don't have any software/program that can re-size those pics?

Ant - If you get them on Drive, I can get them downsized pretty quickly for you ;-) Do you need downsized versions of the ones we just took last weekend?

 

[Anthony P]

I'll see what I can gather... All of my photos are too big, so just posting one can be such a pain in itself.

Great photos Terry. Beautiful.

Thanks.. but you don't have any software/program that can re-size those pics?

Ant - If you get them on Drive, I can get them downsized pretty quickly for you ;-) Do you need downsized versions of the ones we just took last weekend?

Yep! That's what I was planning to do when I had a chance. I still suffer from some tech issues, even though I have made progress. The only way I know to resize photos is by cropping them and hoping for the best.