Castor oil for constipation?

Rocki

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Hello, is it ok to use castor oil instead of mineral oil for constipation? Rectally inserted. He is dangerously constipated, I believe he got in to some perlite. The vet is too damn slow and I’m not going to sit here and roll my thumbs watching Tobias suffer and potentially die.
thanks!!
 

Rocki

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Oh and he is a sulcata 5 yrs old, and yes I’m soaking him in lukewarm water for a couple of hours at a time twice a day. He won’t eat anything. Not even the nopales cactus pads thinly shredded. X-rays showed his entestines pretty damn full of “something” I believe it’s perlite.
I’m worried.
 

Ink

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@Tom or @Yvonne G hopefully an expert will be able to help you.
 

Rocki

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Hello, is it ok to use castor oil instead of mineral oil for constipation? Rectally inserted. He is dangerously constipated, I believe he got in to some perlite. The vet is too damn slow and I’m not going to sit here and roll my thumbs watching Tobias suffer and potentially die.
thanks!!
Tho it could be perlite, this doesn't really look like it. See pictures attached. Wtf is it!? Vet got the first one out, he just pooped this one out in the soak. Im afraid there is a lot more..
 

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Sensimillia

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Hopefully not perlite, am no expert but kinda looks like a bladder stone.
Here's a link to bladder stones. Looks similar.
 

Rocki

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OMG yes it does look like it. His X-rays didnt show any round objects oddly enough, just his intestines were unusually solid, I wish I had a copy of them now so I could show them, but the whiter it is the more solid, like bone, the darker/more black it is the less dense, like gas. The intestines were whiter than normal. I will call the vet again right now.
 

ZenHerper

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If your veterinarian could not identify the calculus or work out the difference between the bladder and intestines...find another vet. Reptile anatomy is different from mammalian.

Some of these torts need surgery if the stones don't all pass. You want someone who knows how to manage tortoise anesthesia and surgery:

Continue daily warm water soaks -- these stones need the extra hydration to pass, and your pet's kidneys need the supplemental water. What is Toby's diet and care environment?
 

Rocki

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If your veterinarian could not identify the calculus or work out the difference between the bladder and intestines...find another vet. Reptile anatomy is different from mammalian.

Some of these torts need surgery if the stones don't all pass. You want someone who knows how to manage tortoise anesthesia and surgery:

Continue daily warm water soaks -- these stones need the extra hydration to pass, and your pet's kidneys need the supplemental water. What is Toby's diet and care environment?
Yes I might have to take him elsewhere, though they do communicate with the other better place that is a few hours away. He lives in the yard, its big, wood chips, though those haven't seemed to be a problem so far. He sleeps under bushes of his choosing even though he has a little house. He is so stubborn, doesn't want anything that he doesn't find himself. He eats grass from the lawn (no chemicals) and a lot of pumpkin and zukini stuff, tomatoes, cucumbers, mulberry leaves and grape leaves, pumpkin flowers, lettuce, some fruit. He will not eat Orchard hay or Timothy grass no matter what I do, I have soaked it, mixed it with lettuce, he hates it. He never drinks any water either so I soak him once a week but Im guessing from this that it hasn't been enough. Right now Im feeding him cactus pads but he won't eat even those. In the winter I had him inside mostly in my bathroom with an infra light, but from what Ive been reading now sounds like it wasn't warm enough because he wasn't very active at all. I thought it was normal for them to semi-hibernate, which also a lot of people say but I read here somewhere that its not so. I dont know how to be sure of anything anymore. The vets oddly enough dont seem to know very much..
That link is not delightful, but thank you. Im not sure what to do if he needs operation. Im in school and I dont have much $
 
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ZenHerper

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Not sure where Chico is...perhaps @Tom or @Yvonne G can recommend some other vets...

Urate crystals and stones are made when the body becomes dehydrated and the kidneys recycle water back into the blood (handy trick if you're a reptile that might end up in periodic drought conditions)...but without that water, the protein by-product uric acid is left behind and it clumps together in the bladder. If the body remains dry, layers of urate gunk will form into stones.

Torts that won't drink need soaking to prevent dehydration -- they can absorb water through the vent, and hopefully learn to drink and seek out water on a daily basis. Plopping a 100-pound rock into a pool of water every day is not a fun job! You want to teach him now.

His appetite may be poor right now because the stones are causing an obstruction of his digestive organs. Continue offering his favorites, but also add mashed bits of new things...cactus pad is nice and soft and you can smooth some of the inside onto something he likes. Torts are programmed to sample a lot of plants near to where they hatch, but then their brains start to get attached to things that are safe to eat. They can learn to eat a wider variety when they are older, but it takes more time, patience, ingenuity, and persistence.
 

Maggie3fan

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The nearest Vet I found was the Vet school in Davis.
I had a 120 pound 17 year old tortoise who was very well hydrated. He had his own pond that he swam in, and drank from, so I didn't worry about and knew nothing about bladder stones. My Vet took Bob to the Vet school at OSU and the students there did an MRI. The only Vet we could find who would do the surgery, he killed Bob in August 2015.
The biggest stone weighed 2 pounds, it was hard and solid, but they are starting to disintegrate now.
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I do realize how expensive what we are talking about is.
If I might suggest that you find an exotic Vet who can diagnose the stones. If the tort can't pass any, surgery will be required to save the tortoise's life. But you need to know how big the stones are first so then decisions can be made. The surgery on Bob was about $5000. I started a "gofundme" account and that helped pay for Bob's surgery.
No Castor oil!!! Get a bottle of mineral oil (abt $2) gently and slowly use a syringe to put the oil in his cloaca.
 

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Rocki

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The nearest Vet I found was the Vet school in Davis.
I had a 120 pound 17 year old tortoise who was very well hydrated. He had his own pond that he swam in, and drank from, so I didn't worry about and knew nothing about bladder stones. My Vet took Bob to the Vet school at OSU and the students there did an MRI. The only Vet we could find who would do the surgery, he killed Bob in August 2015.
The biggest stone weighed 2 pounds, it was hard and solid, but they are starting to disintegrate now.
View attachment 331828
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I do realize how expensive what we are talking about is.
If I might suggest that you find an exotic Vet who can diagnose the stones. If the tort can't pass any, surgery will be required to save the tortoise's life. But you need to know how big the stones are first so then decisions can be made. The surgery on Bob was about $5000. I started a "gofundme" account and that helped pay for Bob's surgery.
No Castor oil!!! Get a bottle of mineral oil (abt $2) gently and slowly use a syringe to put the oil in his cloaca.
Thanks for the castor oil warning, I believe you, but do you have any more info on why? due to that I already used it..and he did get a stone out afterwards. Im so sorry to hear about Bob, it breaks my heart.Why did he get the stones if he was so hydrated?
Truth is I dont have 5000 dollars for this, or I can't finish my education, which is a miracle that I am able to do as it is, this is my chance really. I love Tobias, but if someone else could afford the surgery I would be willing to give him to that person. Better alive with someone else than dead with me. If he needs it that is. I still have some hope because the x-rays did not show any stones (tho he pooped one out since then so..) Anyway, Im going to soak him and get some mineral oil tomorrow.

I want to do an enema on him, is that ok??
I saw Kamp Kenan do it to his huge lizard.

Here he is, this beautiful boy
 

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Sarah2020

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Sorry for the hassle your going through. Try mushing the food so its easier to eat and place on a flat dish he can walk into. Maintain the shallow warm soaks in a high sided container so he can not walk out as hydration is vital and they will drink the water. Another idea for sick tortoise is blended carrot baby food in the soak water, this may be nice tasting and encourage water drinking? Hopefully you will clear the blockage naturally. Please read the care sheet as your tortoise is pyramiding so heat and light, humidity may not be correct.
 

ZenHerper

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Contact the UC Davis veterinary school -- they may have a price scale or other program.

Harsh enemas and laxative stimulants (like castor oil) are not recommended because tortoises may not be able to pass an obstructive *whathaveyou* through their shell. Internal organs can be damaged. Some mineral oil to lubricate the vent locally is fine (it does not cause intestinal contractions).
 

Rocki

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Contact the UC Davis veterinary school -- they may have a price scale or other program.

Harsh enemas and laxative stimulants (like castor oil) are not recommended because tortoises may not be able to pass an obstructive *whathaveyou* through their shell. Internal organs can be damaged. Some mineral oil to lubricate the vent locally is fine (it does not cause intestinal contractions).
Ok, so you don't recommend getting him to eat mineral oil with food? Just want to be clear..
 

ZenHerper

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Ok, so you don't recommend getting him to eat mineral oil with food? Just want to be clear..
There's no point to lubing the entire digestive tract...the stones are coming from the bladder and are having trouble getting stuck on their short way out. That's where the oil will do the most good.
 

Rocki

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There is just a lot of inconsistent advise here, its making it hard.
Im not going to sit and do nothing so Ill just have to do what makes sense to me, along with the Vets advice, even though they drive me crazy.
 

Maggie3fan

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There is just a lot of inconsistent advise here, its making it hard.
Im not going to sit and do nothing so Ill just have to do what makes sense to me, along with the Vets advice, even though they drive me crazy.
I'm sorry...what do you consider inconsistent? Also...think about this, you are not gonna sit by an do nothing? But, your ignorance could hurt or kill your tort. I told you, you can't do anything unless and until you have an xray or MRI to tell you if you have stones, how many and how big...then you will know how to proceed. Right now you don't know what is wrong, so you don't know how to proceed, and if you are going about treating that tort without the proper knowledge it could turn out bad. Get a real exotic vet or call Davis and find out what you have, please
 
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