Conflicting information

[James Stevens]

Good evening,

I was gifted a fantastic little horsfield tortoise by my Fiancé for xmas. He (is what I'm going with) is 14 months old and approx 60-70mm long.
We both absolutely love him however we can't find any quality information on specific questions of care for him and general information really.
We have only had him since yesterday so we don't know too much about him anyway like his behaviours etc so you may be able to put me at ease.

He seems to sleep a lot, like goes into a corner furthest from the heat lamp and stays there seemingly until you wake him. Is this normal?

We gave him a bath this morning, Luke warm water for around 20 minutes and gently brushed him off with a tooth brush and ran a cotton bud across his eyes as they seemed to have grit in, should this be a daily occurrence?

He is currently in a tortoise table 1200mm x 900mm with top soil substrate around 50mm deep. Water dish, slate and cuttlefish bone and also exo terra combo lamp. Temp under the lamp is 32 degrees, ambient temp around the rest of the enclosure is 19-26 degrees. Do I need to wet the soil for him?

I'm sorry for the lengthy post, however we are both very passionate about giving him the best home and are keen to get good answers to help us.

Thanks in advance
James

 

[James Stevens]

Sorry, also he does not seem to be eating too well, I know that the place he was purchased from was feeding him cucumber, I have done some research and seen thats not good so he hasn't had any of that from me, I've been laying down lots a weeds that I have found, and know are safe, however he does not seem to want to eat these. Any ideas?

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi James, and welcome to the Forum!

You may need to run some cucumber through a grinder to make mush out of it, then mix in some cut up greens, stirring until all the greens are coated with the cucumber smell/mush. Little by little you can decrease the amount of cucumber until he's eating the greens on their own. Don't rush it. It takes time.

Go to the Russian tortoise section and read the stickies at the top of the section. Here's one to get you started:

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/b...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. Here is the care info for this species:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Tell us more about your bulb. Is it a mercury vapor bulb that gives heat, light and UV all in one, or do you have one of those double dome combos with a spot bulb and a cfl UV bulb?

I would definitely continue the warm soaks daily until the appetite comes back, and then taper off to 2 or 3 times a week.

 

[James Stevens]

Hi thanks for the welcome and the quick reply from both of you, those posts are very helpful.

The lamp is a mercury vapour type, Suspended about 18 inches from the surface.

Because of my lack of experience every time I see him head for a corner and burrow I just worry.

 

[Tom]

Hi thanks for the welcome and the quick reply from both of you, those posts are very helpful.

The lamp is a mercury vapour type, Suspended about 18 inches from the surface.

Because of my lack of experience every time I see him head for a corner and burrow I just worry.

Those bulbs work, but be aware that at least some of them stop producing UV within 3 months. The only way to know what your bulb is doing is to put a meter under it.

This is the time of year when this species would normally be hibernating. The lower light levels and shorter days of winter tell their bodies to shut down and stop eating just as much as the lower temps. If your new little guy doesn't want to eat, you may need to add more light to the enclosure. A florescent strip of the correct color temperature will do the trick. Get something in the 5000-6500K range. It will show this on the package. Or you can get a ZooMed 10.0 strip light. Get a long one that covers most of the enclosure. Set it on a timer for 13-14 hours a day along with your MVB. The 10.0 bulbs actually produce very little UV and if it is mounted more than 12" over the tortoise, almost no UV will reach the tortoise. This is okay since you are just using it for light, because those bulbs make very "natural" looking light.

I would also lower the bulb just a bit and get your basking area directly under the bulb closer to 36C. It is meant to simulate the warming rays of the sun.

These things, coupled with the daily soaks and some time to get used to the new environment should help your tortoise settle in and start eating again.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Welcome! A new tortoise is unlikely to eat right away, no matter what you feed him. Take the time to get the heating worked out. I know it’s hard for us to watch but a tortoise is perfectly fine not eating for days/weeks. I doubt yours will take that long, though!

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Not to suggest any advice or direction you get here is not as good as it gets. But the whole of the 'what we know' is always getting better.

I hope you will stick with this forum and end up contributing to the growth in awareness and knowledge. Everybody who is helpful now to your current interest at one time had the exact same questions you are asking.

Coming here to this forum is as good as it gets. I'm hoping you can also continue to share what your interest is with the current tortoise and offer more of your narrative and ongoing learning, which becomes that body of knowledge that you seek.

That's all cool when you think about it. Welcome to TFO. I don't have Russians and am getting better acquainted with them through threads like yours.

 

[James Stevens]

Thank you all for putting me at ease. I was worried that since the place we got him was feeding him cucumber and who knows what else and that something serious may be wrong.

I'll look into getting one of those zoo med fluorescent bulbs as soon as possible. Any restrictions on mounting it to the tortoise table itself?

Hi Will, thanks for replying, I definitely will continue to use the forum and hopefully be knowledgable enough in the future to contribute back. I used the same route on another forum when I got into fishkeeping a few years ago and I like to think I make a good controbution there now.

 

[James Stevens]

I guess I better introduce the little guy in question.

This is Montego, or Monty. He seems much chirpier this morning after a soak and he ate some catsear from the garden which is good news.

Is it common for Tortoises to stay asleep for prolonged periods? he buried himself last night around 8pm and was still in the same position this morning until about 10am when I moved him to under the lamp, it took him about 10 minutes to wake up fully here. Is this fairly common practice?

 

[CarolM]

I guess I better introduce the little guy in question.

This is Montego, or Monty. He seems much chirpier this morning after a soak and he ate some catsear from the garden which is good news.

Is it common for Tortoises to stay asleep for prolonged periods? he buried himself last night around 8pm and was still in the same position this morning until about 10am when I moved him to under the lamp, it took him about 10 minutes to wake up fully here. Is this fairly common practice?

Hi Welcome to TFO. Monty is cute. Just want to let you know that soil is not really good as a substrate (don't worry I did the same thing) it causes impactation which is not a good thing for the little guys at all. The experts recommend fine grade orchid bark, or coco coir and a few others, I can't remember now but I am sure others will let you know. Enjoy Monty and happy chatting on TFO.

 

[James Stevens]

Hi and thank you,

Can I use soil in a mix or should there be no soil in there at all? Would the coconut coir sit on the top of other substrate?

 

[CarolM]

Hi and thank you,

Can I use soil in a mix or should there be no soil in there at all? Would the coconut coir sit on the top of other substrate?

I speak under correction but I think you shouldn't use any soil especially if your little one likes to burrow. But I think that @Will, @Tom, @YvonneG, @JoesMum, @Bees62, @Tidgy's Dad and a few others would be better suited to answer fully. I changed mine to a mix of coco peat and fine orchid bark. It helps with the humidty of the enclosure for my hatchling.

 

[JoesMum]

Russians love to dig and burrow. Having a damp substrate helps raise humidity, but you need one that doesn't go muddy or solid when damp.

We generally recommend fine grade orchid bark (emphasis on the fine grade - coarse grade doesn't hold the moisture) or coco coir alone for this. They don't need to be mixed with anything other than water which you tip in from a jug and mix thoroughly with your hands until all of it, top to bottom and corner to corner, is damp. You need a depth of at least 10cm / 4 inches.

It is far, far cheaper to buy it from a garden centre, DIY store or online from somewhere like Amazon than to buy something from a pet store. Printing a picture of a tortoise on the packet seems to double the price.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

I have started using peat moss. But, make sure it is organic and has nothing else added. Works great for my Russians, is cheaper and I can get it from local suppliers such as lowe’s. Just a thought. And, he sure is a cute baby!

 

[Tom]

Is it common for Tortoises to stay asleep for prolonged periods? he buried himself last night around 8pm and was still in the same position this morning until about 10am when I moved him to under the lamp, it took him about 10 minutes to wake up fully here. Is this fairly common practice?

Yes. This is common for any tortoise that has been removed from its known territory and deposited into a completely new and unfamiliar territory. He doesn't know what predators or rivals might be around, and he doesn't know have a mental map of the routine and resources in his new territory yet.

Also working against you is the time of year and your climate. Cold and overcast, coupled with shorter days and lower light intensity and a different light color all conspire to tell this tortoise its time to dig in and sleep through the cold winter weather. It takes time to convince them that its not time to be asleep. Adding more light of the correct spectrum and keeping temperatures up will help.

My problem with bought-in-a-bag soil from the store is twofold. 1. Its messy. It turns to mud when you wet it. 2. You can't know what composted material it is made of. Is it made of grass clippings that have been sprayed with insecticidal lawn chemicals? Is it oleander or azalea clippings? Is it rose bushes treated with fungicide? Or is it made of something safe? No way to know. If you are using your own home made garden soil then you can eliminate #2, but you still have the first problem. A third issue is that most store bought soil has all sorts of additives in it like guano or perlite. They intend for people to grow plants in it. Not use it as substrate for a reptilian pet to live on. I like to use the coco coir when they are under 4". After that I switch them over to fine grade orchid bark. The coir will be somewhat messy too. Use a thick layer and hand pack it down. It typically settles in after a couple of weeks and gets a lot less messy. Beware of the "Pets at Home" substrate commonly sold over there in all the pet shops. It contains sand, which can be deadly, and it also has little limestone bits in it. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to encourage tortoises to eat their sandy substrate in order to satisfy their calcium cravings, but man, what a terrible idea.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I use several substrate products. Orchid bark, Coco Chunks, and Cypress mulch - they all have similar properties. I'm not a fan of coco coir. Those properties are that they hold moisture pretty well, are chunky enough that when a tortoise is at rest there is still air circulation across the plastron. The "pore" space is large enough for isopods (RollyPollys) to move around and hide. And when I dump water in the enclosure that pore space is enough the water can flow to the low end and drain out a hole in the bottom. I will often dump fresh water into the enclosure, more or less flooding it, and then it will flow to the low end and out. Sometimes it can smell stagnant so this helps much.

Over time I replace the substrate in small sections, with one that is different than the portion I leave behind, that way it's easier for me to keep track of what is older or fresher and leaves enough undisturbed so I don't wipe out the isopods.

I have depth from an inch to several inches, that will make them climb up and down some, and gives them the chance to dig in high and drier, or low and swampy. This has to be maintained with frequent movement of mulches as they push it around. This is how it goes for several species.

 

[James Stevens]

Thank you very much, is it ok for me to wake him up as I did this morning?
This is undoubtedly a stupid question but coconut coir seems like a very dry substance, is it safe to leave under a basking lamp all day while I'm at work, even after I wet it? The pictures look almost like kindling.

 

[Tom]

Thank you very much, is it ok for me to wake him up as I did this morning?
This is undoubtedly a stupid question but coconut coir seems like a very dry substance, is it safe to leave under a basking lamp all day while I'm at work, even after I wet it? The pictures look almost like kindling.

Yes. I'd wake him daily, and soak daily until he resumes "normal" activity.

Any substrate will need to be kept damp. Coir, or any other substrate, poses no fire hazard if your heat lamp is set properly to the correct temperature. I prefer to have a flat rock or pice of sandstone or slate under the heat lamp for them to bask on.

If your substrate is drying out that fast, it might help to cover a large portion of the top of the enclosure to slow down the process and also keep humidity and temps a little higher.

 

[James Stevens]

I only have top soil as substrate until atleast Friday so it will have to do for the next few days. It's fairly dry on top near the lamp but just underneath the surface is very damp still which is good.
I'll post a picture of Montys table