confused about living conditions

[LilSambo42]

Hello, i am a new tortoise owner and i have just been confused with all of the specific living conditions i need to create for my tortoise. I bought my tortoise in phoenix, AZ from a breeder around march, i was told he was 6 months old when i bought him (or her) and i am currently living in southern california. I have been keeping my Sulcata, Sambo, in a 35 gallon tank that is about 3'x1' indoors with an open top, he was previously kept outside in the same conditions. The bottom of his living area is about 2/3s filled with sand and the other third with gravel that you would put in a fish tank. I feed him on the gravel side as it is a little cleaner and soak him in a shallow basin that is on the gravel side as well. The cage is typically 80+ degrees with a little house for him to chill inside of. I don't currently have a light on him because the bulb burnt out so I'm planning on getting a new one. I usually feed him either a handful of mixed greens a day or food pellets i got at pets mart or both. He usually prefers the fresh food or only eats the green pellets. I was wondering if these conditions are safe i am worried about his diet and his hydration and just want to make sure that he will grow properly because it seems like he is growing fairly slowly he is still only about the size of a computer mouse maybe a little bit smaller. i have been soaking him about every other day but he usually climbs out of the basin after only a short time. I am mainly concerned about the sand and gravel in his cage and want to make sure that all of these conditions will promote a healthy little tort any advice on his care is greatly welcomed.

 

[LilSambo42]

 

[Jodie]

Hello. Neither sand or gravel are good substrates. Orchid bark holds moisture, and is not the impactation risk the others are if ingested.
Soaking should be done in a container with high sides, so he can't get out.
Your enclosure is on the small side, and would hold humidity better if it was a closed chamber.

 

[wellington]

You also need a heat spot that he can get under that the temp reaches 95-100 degrees or he cant digest his food properly. The rest of the area, which needs to be larger, should be 80 degrees with a humidity of 80%. A water dish should be provided 24/7 for him to drink or self soak. You should be soaking him every day. A wider variety of a diet also needs to be added and feed more if he eats all that you give him in the first feeding.. In CA you should be able to get him outside for natural sunlight for at least a half hour a day and should try to provide a more natural diet.
Please read the threads listed below by my signature. Just click on the titles.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

Almost everything you've told us about your husbandry could use changing or improvement. Please read:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

...and make the necessary adjustments to your husbandry.

 

[Pearly]

Welcome to the forum. Sambo is a cutie. You have come to the best place for reliable information. Stick around and make improvements one at the time. Start with heat/humidity (lamps/substrate), hydration (fresh water in the enclosure and daily soaking) and diet. I know it's frustrating to be bombarded with conflicting info, trying to do the right thing, spending time/money on following advice that later turns out to be a bad one... I've been there myself... You are here now, so take a deep breath, address the basics, read, learn, ask questions, share thoughts, post pictures, make friends. Looking forward to seeing you around

 

[Linhdan Nguyen]

Hello ! Sambo has a slight mischievous look in his eyes! so adorable !
In addition to the posts above, also view this link of good tortoise foods:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-diet-sheet.52677/

another website to check for suggested greens to feed Sambo is www.thetortoisetable.org.uk . It specifies which foods are safe and unsafe for tortoises and the website is an overall great resource.

here is a quick list of approved plants/greens (link free) written by Yvonne or Tom.. I'm not sure who.. but they are both very experienced tort owners:
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Let us know if you have any questions. We're happy to help

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. There is a lot of old, outdated, incorrect care info floating around out in the world. It has been parroted for decades and it is based on incorrect assumptions about how they live in the wild. Baby sulcatas hatch at the start of the rainy season. Things are humid, wet, rainy, marshy, and there is green growing food and puddles everywhere. This is the time when they thrive. When the dry season returns, many of them die. The ones that survive the dry season usually go underground where things are damp, humid and warm but not hot and dry like at the surface.

Many long time breeders, vets and "experts", still have not learned this basic info. They still recommend the old dry way and it leads to LOTS of baby tortoise deaths.

Please read those links that Yvonne posted for you. Following that care advice will lead to a healthy baby. In addition, these might lend some insight to what we are talking about. This one is what happens with the dry routine:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

This one explains how babies should be started by the breeder:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/

This 6 year old ongoing thread will explain how some of this knowledge came about and went into practice:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/

 

[BrianWI]

Hi,

I would add one thing to what others have said. As you have noticed, there is a lot of conflicting information on other parts of the web. Then you come here and get a completely different set of info. That being said, take this to heart: The CORRECT information is here, not the other sources. If you follow what you read here (and it took me quite a while reading everything here) your tortoise will be well cared for.

 

[Speedy-1]

Do yourself and Sambo a big favor . Read the links and make the adjustments !

 

[LilSambo42]

Thanks for all the help guys i really appreciate it i went and switched his substrate to course coconut fiber which was pretty pricey. My newest concern is that he is a fairly curious little guy and that he will end up getting stuck on his back, i found him stuck on his back this morning when i got home from work and i was just wondering how dangerous this is? I'm not always home so I'm just worried he will do a little flip into his water basin and drown. It seems like he is fairly smart and learns from his mistakes pretty quickly so I'm not sure how worried i should be about this. Also should i have any concerns with him eating the coconut fiber or is this fairly edible? Usually after he finishes the fresh food i have put in his cage i am hesitant to add more because i don't want to over feed him, that is why i have the pellets so that if he is still hungry he can opt for those to top him off. i have been trying to integrate more and more fresh natural leaves and grasses and such into his diet however he definitely prefers the store bought lettuce probably because thats what the breeder i got him from had been feeding him his whole life and told me to feed him. After hearing everything you guys have said it seems as though the breeder didn't really know what he was doing to be honest. My next task is to get a bulb for the light in his tank, i haven't used a light on him before however its usually around 85 in my room and pretty humid and i don't want to go out and get something that will burn him alive ya know. As for the size of his tank he seem like he won't outgrow it for some time and since I'm currently a college student i should be moving out of my parents house after i graduate so i don't think he will have time to outgrow his aquarium until after i already have another living situation planned for him. I have added a few more pictures of him (assuming its a him) to try to get a better idea of if he looks healthy, he is currently about 9-10 months old and about half the size of a poke ball.

 

[Linhdan Nguyen]

Such a cutie ! Try looking for the compressed coconut bricks, at the petstore or at store like Home Dept and Lowes. Theyre much cheaper. You just have to put them in water and it expands.
As for eating the substrate, usually thats a sign of vitamin deficiency. Do you feed him directly on the substrate ? If not, this could be from him eating store bought lettuce, which has little nutrients. Do you sprinkle calcium or vitamin powder on his food? You could do that twice a week, or once you change his diet, the substrate eating should go away.
I would add more food for him though. Enough to where he has a little leftover after his first round. Usually torts will come back to eat some more later on in the day so dont worry about food going to waste.
"Overfeeding" happens when torts consume a large amount of food but do not exercise. Your tort seems like an active one & for now his tank gives him enough room to walk around.
Him being on his back, there are big wood (?) pieces in his enclosure for him to climb on. I think its good but since hes small, that could be whats flipping him on his back. As he tried to walk over one, its too high and he falls over. Try taking some out and sinking some into the substrate so its not so high.
Did you moisten the substrate hes on? It looks a bit dry in the picture.
Is the bulb you have in the light fixture a Powersun bulb (has both uvb and heat)? Unless you take Sambo outside for some real sunshine, he will need a UVB light (not the coil bulbs though! Theyre known to harming tort eyes). Uvb is crucial to a healthy tortoise shell, it also keeps away MBD.
Do you have a thermometer/hydrometer to measure the temps and humidity inside the tank?

Btw, im actually new to this tort raising thing but everything im saying i literally learned from here or my experience these couple of months. This forum really is so helpful !

 

[Tom]

All the big lava rocks in there are a flipping hazard. I'd remove them.

That watering hole is completely unsafe. You need to get that out of there ASAP. Terra cotta plant saucers sunk into the substrate work best.

It looks like the substrate you had was good. It just needed to be much thicker and have some water dumped on it.

The top needs to be covered to hold in some humidity.

Your light fixture needs to be suspended from over head so you can adjust the height and get the temperature under it correct. You can buy a stand from ZooMed, or make something.

You need night heat. A CHE set on a thermostat works best.

A normal, well hydrated and well fed tortoise would outgrow that tank in about 3 months.

 

[Pearly]

To address one of your concerns (feeding) that has been especially close to my heart with one of my babies, to me THERE's NO SUCH THING AS OVERFEEDING BABY TORTOISE. I still feed my yearlings twice a day and always put down more than they can finish, plus there are always plants for free grazing and bugs for hunting which they do both. That maybe one of the reasons why they still don't have to be separated. No signs of aggression. But food is one of the torts' priorities essential to their survival. You already have a list of good foods. I've been chopping my torts' food, know exactly how much they eat and this way I can sneak in their less favorite/but good for them food items. this is what I mean
the brown stuff is soaked Mazuri

 

[LilSambo42]

Thanks for all the advice guys i just had those lava rocks in there to prevent him from looking out so much and trying to get out of the tank, but i guess i will probably remove them to prevent flipping. I'm probably going to end up having to keep him outdoors if he is really going to grow as much as you guys say in such a short time, my parents recently got rid of their chickens so ill probably remodel their coup into a tortoise habitat. As for food i have started trying to ween him off of t he lettuce and switch to better foods i have just been slowly putting less lettuce and more good stuff in there every time i feed him and he seems to be catching on still not all to fond of his turtle pellets though i never really finishes them. I have a thermometer and it shows that the water side of his tank is never usually below 80 or high 70's and it never really exceeds 100 under the light,i haven't even gotten the bulb yet because since moving the tank recently i discovered that the light naturally focuses on the area under the lamp anyway so it seems like I've created fairly ideal heat conditions in there naturally which I'm pretty happy about. I've taken your advice and added more water to the substrate and i plan on layering it thicker when i end up changing it out. i also have come to the conclusion that he was just trying the substrate out of curiosity after putting him in the new habitat i haven't really seen him take any interest in it since that one time. i don't have any calcium or supplements to add to his food however the pellets contain a fair amount of calcium so i feel like those should probably work in place of any supplements.

 

[Big Charlie]

Thanks for all the advice guys i just had those lava rocks in there to prevent him from looking out so much and trying to get out of the tank, but i guess i will probably remove them to prevent flipping. I'm probably going to end up having to keep him outdoors if he is really going to grow as much as you guys say in such a short time, my parents recently got rid of their chickens so ill probably remodel their coup into a tortoise habitat. As for food i have started trying to ween him off of t he lettuce and switch to better foods i have just been slowly putting less lettuce and more good stuff in there every time i feed him and he seems to be catching on still not all to fond of his turtle pellets though i never really finishes them. I have a thermometer and it shows that the water side of his tank is never usually below 80 or high 70's and it never really exceeds 100 under the light,i haven't even gotten the bulb yet because since moving the tank recently i discovered that the light naturally focuses on the area under the lamp anyway so it seems like I've created fairly ideal heat conditions in there naturally which I'm pretty happy about. I've taken your advice and added more water to the substrate and i plan on layering it thicker when i end up changing it out. i also have come to the conclusion that he was just trying the substrate out of curiosity after putting him in the new habitat i haven't really seen him take any interest in it since that one time. i don't have any calcium or supplements to add to his food however the pellets contain a fair amount of calcium so i feel like those should probably work in place of any supplements.

You aren't going to want to move him outdoors permanently for several years, until he reaches a certain size. Small tortoises can be picked up by birds. Once you move him outdoors, you will still need to provide heat.

 

[Big Charlie]

To address one of your concerns (feeding) that has been especially close to my heart with one of my babies, to me THERE's NO SUCH THING AS OVERFEEDING BABY TORTOISE. I still feed my yearlings twice a day and always put down more than they can finish, plus there are always plants for free grazing and bugs for hunting which they do both. That maybe one of the reasons why they still don't have to be separated. No signs of aggression. But food is one of the torts' priorities essential to their survival. You already have a list of good foods. I've been chopping my torts' food, know exactly how much they eat and this way I can sneak in their less favorite/but good for them food items. View attachment 179082 this is what I mean
View attachment 179083 the brown stuff is soaked Mazuri

This looks like a taco salad!

 

[Pearly]

This looks like a taco salad!

Trying to be a good grandma and spoil my grand-torts...

 

[Tom]

You aren't going to want to move him outdoors permanently for several years...

This might not be entirely true. Mine are ready to move outside in one year. Some of them grow fast in the right conditions.

 

[Denisia]

Its not about reading more threads….. I have read them all, spoken to live 'experts' attended tortoise club meetings... Both sides of the care debates on baby ..sulcato are equally insistent.. my baby was born in California and that's where I am raising her. I would like to hear from an experienced Vet. I have been told (with equal conviction) that my baby will get respiratory issues with humidity that's high and then again from humidity that is too low.. The concept of a humid spot/hidey hole make sense but I am not an expert, m just trying to do best by my pet.