Confusing mass inside Red-Eared Slider

[BlookAcres]

Hey, folks!
I don't know if anyone on here might be able to help me, but I'm kind of desperate.
So, my red eared slider laid a clutch of eggs about 2 months ago with the help of oxytocin. It wasn't easy, I had to inject her multiple times, but after the last injection, she laid several in a row, and I couldn't feel anything inside of her anymore. The initial X-ray showed her having 5 eggs, but she eventually expelled a total of 11.
Fast forward to last night, I was cleaning the tank, I felt inside of her just in case, and I felt something that seems to be shaped like an egg, but doesn't feel like an egg. There's no give that egg shells usually have, it feels more solid.
My immediate fear was that it's an egg left over from the last clutch and it's calcified to the point where it's completely solid. I rushed to the vet to get an X-ray, and...nothing. There's literally nothing on the X-ray. No egg outline, not even a dark spot or anything, it just looks clear. I even had them do 2 projections, with the second one, I put my finger inside of her, touching the mass, in hopes that it would 'place' it on the X-ray, but there's just nothing.
So, my question is obviously...what is it? What could it be? A traveling organ? A tumor? Could an egg have overgrown with tissue to the point where it's invisible on an X-ray? That doesn't make sense. If it's old and calcified, wouldn't that make it MORE visible on an X-ray?
I've had it happen twice that the X-ray showed fewer eggs than she eventually laid, so that makes me wonder, is it possible for an X-ray to not pick up eggs?
If this IS an egg, and it's an old one, I need to be trying to get it out asap, but I don't want to inject her with hormones willy-nilly if it's NOT an egg. But what could it be? It moves, by the way, it's not stuck in one place.
For context, I am originally from the US, but we are currently in a second-world country, and there are no herp vets here. There are a few that claim to be "exotic" animal vets, but I've seen them all over my time living here, and generally, they know less than I do. The only advice I was given at the clinic was to go to the capital, which is very far away, and not only will it be extremely expensive, but there's also a good chance that it won't help. I also don't think anyone really does any kind of surgery on turtles here, and even if they do, it probably won't be very well done.
My only other idea is to get a CT scan, which will also be very expensive, but at least there is one here, but...would that help?
I am very confused by what this could be. If anyone has any experience with an "egg-shaped hard mass that doesn't show up on X-ray", I would greatly appreciate if you shared.
Thank you.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

@Yvonne G has some experience with treating sick tortoises and turtles, maybe she knows more about x-raying eggs?

 

[BlookAcres]

@Yvonne G has some experience with treating sick tortoises and turtles, maybe she knows more about x-raying eggs?

Should I message her, or is it better to just wait for her to maybe see the thread? I don't want to be a nuisance with DMs.
Thank you for answering either way.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Should I message her, or is it better to just wait for her to maybe see the thread? I don't want to be a nuisance with DMs.
Thank you for answering either way.

Yvonne is here pretty much every day. There is of course a time zone difference but she will hopefully check this thread out as soon as she can.

 

[BlookAcres]

Yvonne is here pretty much every day. There is of course a time zone difference but she will hopefully check this thread out as soon as she can.

Thank you, I'll just wait and hope she responds then.

 

[mark1]

my opinion. if the turtle is eating and otherwise acting normal, i wouldn't look for a reason to mess with them....... if there is something truly wrong with them it will become apparent, in their behavior........ personally i don't look for problems , they always become obvious.......

 

[Yvonne G]

I totally agree with what Mark1 said, and he knows much more about water turtles than I do. I'm assuming you're palpating just in front of a back leg to feel the mass? So that's not a location where you would be feeling something the turtle swallowed. Is the turtle eating and swimming as normal? Just leave her alone and enjoy her.

 

[BlookAcres]

Thank you for your responses, everyone.
The reason I'm worried is that by the time the problem becomes apparent, it might be too late to fix it.
She has been egg-bound before with no signs of an issue. As in, she carried eggs for over a month with no gravid behavior, refused to lay them inside or outside, but continued to eat and act perfectly normal.
If she has an egg in there and it becomes calcified or breaks, considering the low quality of veterinary help available here, I might not be able to do anything at that point. Now, I still might. I understand the idea of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', but if I wait for things to get worse, it might be too late. If a problem is in the making, I'd rather do something about it while I still can.

 

[zovick]

Thank you for your responses, everyone.
The reason I'm worried is that by the time the problem becomes apparent, it might be too late to fix it.
She has been egg-bound before with no signs of an issue. As in, she carried eggs for over a month with no gravid behavior, refused to lay them inside or outside, but continued to eat and act perfectly normal.
If she has an egg in there and it becomes calcified or breaks, considering the low quality of veterinary help available here, I might not be able to do anything at that point. Now, I still might. I understand the idea of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', but if I wait for things to get worse, it might be too late. If a problem is in the making, I'd rather do something about it while I still can.

Are you sure you aren't feeling the hip joint on the opposite side from where you are palpating? That would look normal on a radiograph and be immovable. So would a vertebra in the spinal column for that matter.

 

[BlookAcres]

Are you sure you aren't feeling the hip joint on the opposite side from where you are palpating? That would look normal on a radiograph and be immovable. So would a vertebra in the spinal column for that matter.

It moves, it's not stuck in one spot. In fact, I felt it on one side first, and then later on the other. Which is why egg was my best guess.
I also have palpated her quite a number of times to check for eggs in the past, so I'm fairly familiar with what that feels like. I probably wouldn't suddenly discover a joint I'd never felt before.

 

[zovick]

It moves, it's not stuck in one spot. In fact, I felt it on one side first, and then later on the other. Which is why egg was my best guess.
I also have palpated her quite a number of times to check for eggs in the past, so I'm fairly familiar with what that feels like. I probably wouldn't suddenly discover a joint I'd never felt before.

Just tossing out some possibilities trying to find an answer for your question.

Are you able to post the radiographs? Maybe that would be helpful, though often they come out pretty grainy when posted.

 

[BlookAcres]

Just tossing out some possibilities trying to find an answer for your question.

Are you able to post the radiographs? Maybe that would be helpful, though often they come out pretty grainy when posted.

No, no, I appreciate it. I just don't think that's the answer.
They only gave me the X-rays on a CD. My PC doesn't have a disk drive. I'll maybe try to view them on my mother's work computer later and see if I can transfer them, but I'm not sure yet. There's basically nothing on them though.

 

[wellington]

No, no, I appreciate it. I just don't think that's the answer.
They only gave me the X-rays on a CD. My PC doesn't have a disk drive. I'll maybe try to view them on my mother's work computer later and see if I can transfer them, but I'm not sure yet. There's basically nothing on them though.

If you can get them posted on here that might help a lot. Although you and the unqualified vet thinks there is nothing, the experienced members may see something that's not right.

 

[mark1]

a good vet , any kind of vet , are really good at reading x-rays, at least that's been my experience....... did the vet feel this object he/she is x-raying for ? did it concern them? problem with animals, "if it ain't broke" and you try to fix it , you may "break" something......

 

[BlookAcres]

a good vet , any kind of vet , are really good at reading x-rays, at least that's been my experience....... did the vet feel this object he/she is x-raying for ? did it concern them? problem with animals, "if it ain't broke" and you try to fix it , you may "break" something......

They really don't know anything about reptiles and they're very blatant about that. It's just one of the very few clinics in town that has an X-ray machine, but all they do is take the X-ray and then ask me something ridiculous, like, "Won't they reabsorb the eggs if they can't lay them?" No shade, I get everyone has their specialties, I don't expect every vet to know every species, but I've legitimately heard that question from vets at least 5 times by now. Twice from the same vet too.
They don't touch the turtle, they genuinely don't know anything about them. When eggs are visible, they say, "Oh, I see eggs! Are those eggs? Those are eggs, right?" If they don't see eggs, they just say, "I don't see anything", which was the case this time.
I agree that trying to fix something that isn't broken can just lead to more problems. What I fear is that something might already be broken, and the longer I do nothing, the worse it might get. I've been through a 'wait and see' situation before and it didn't end well, so I'm a lot more worried about potential issues now.

 

[mark1]

i have a lot of turtle living in my yard , i'd guess maybe 50 , for the last 25yrs.......i find eggs on the ground , in the water , i find babies , and i've never had a thought of one being eggbound ...... how did you know the turtle was egg bound ? while i've never used oxytocin on a turtle , i have used it on dogs , oxytocin given to early can cause some serious problems? turtles can lay several clutches within a season ... when it's safe to use oxytocin in a dog is easy to see...... in a turtle how do you know when to use it ? i'd guess she was digging nest and straining to lay eggs? turtles are known to have the ability to store eggs in their oviduct in a dormant state......

 

[BlookAcres]

i have a lot of turtle living in my yard , i'd guess maybe 50 , for the last 25yrs.......i find eggs on the ground , in the water , i find babies , and i've never had a thought of one being eggbound ...... how did you know the turtle was egg bound ? while i've never used oxytocin on a turtle , i have used it on dogs , oxytocin given to early can cause some serious problems? turtles can lay several clutches within a season ... when it's safe to use oxytocin in a dog is easy to see...... in a turtle how do you know when to use it ? i'd guess she was digging nest and straining to lay eggs? turtles are known to have the ability to store eggs in their oviduct in a dormant state......

Oxytocin is generally used when the turtle stops trying to lay eggs, but you know they're there. Because at that point it means that she won't lay them herself. This is a lot more common in turtles living in captivity, specifically in tanks/tubs rather than a yard where they can lay their eggs whenever they feel like it. I live in an apartment, and my turtles refuse to lay eggs inside, no matter what kind of nesting area I provide for them. Once they start acting gravid, I take them outside, sometimes several times, to different places, until they find a spot, dig for several hours, and lay. But sometimes they don't. Sometimes the eggs remain, but they stop digging and stop acting like they need to lay, so the eggs just stay there. That's when oxytocin is used.
Based on my research from the past several years, retained eggs are a bigger issue for aquatic turtles than tortoises. As far as I'm aware (though admittedly my land turtle knowledge is limited), tortoises can store eggs for a very long time, but that's not the case for sliders. The longest my turtle has retained eggs was about a month and a half, and once she finally pushed them out with the help of hormone injections, some of them were kind of overgrown with tissue. I don't think that's good, and I don't think it's safe for that to happen, since it's much harder to push out a misshapen, overgrown egg. Another time, one of my turtles had an egg break inside of her, which caused sepsis. That's not something I'd like a repeat of either. Hence my worry that there might be an egg inside my turtle that needs to come out before something bad happens.