Controversial pet visit ?

[Maggie3fan]

Cool and damp is a freakin death sentence. I'd keep 80% humidity, 85 degrees and not only would I soak him DAILY, I'd add Gerber strained carrots to the water. He may drink some, but there's pretty soft skin under his neck and nutrition may soak in there and in his cloaca. Not only would I soak daily and have higher temps, I'd remove the substrate and just have paper, avoiding and chance of rot on his plastron. He probably won't pull thru, however...we don't know that, so if you want to fight for him, stop the injections...start baby food soaks...also, this may sound hokie, but when I have a really sick baby like yours, I hold them and make sure they can and will stay awake...sometimes I think when they are really sick they just go to sleep and don't wake up, So I hold them and talk to them...anyway...I do that

 

[JDDV97]

Cool and damp is a freakin death sentence. I'd keep 80% humidity, 85 degrees and not only would I soak him DAILY, I'd add Gerber strained carrots to the water. He may drink some, but there's pretty soft skin under his neck and nutrition may soak in there and in his cloaca. Not only would I soak daily and have higher temps, I'd remove the substrate and just have paper, avoiding and chance of rot on his plastron. He probably won't pull thru, however...we don't know that, so if you want to fight for him, stop the injections...start baby food soaks...also, this may sound hokie, but when I have a really sick baby like yours, I hold them and make sure they can and will stay awake...sometimes I think when they are really sick they just go to sleep and don't wake up, So I hold them and talk to them...anyway...I do that

But if he’s not eating, aren’t the calcium injections, the only chance of him surviving?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Cool and damp is a freakin death sentence. I'd keep 80% humidity, 85 degrees and not only would I soak him DAILY, I'd add Gerber strained carrots to the water. He may drink some, but there's pretty soft skin under his neck and nutrition may soak in there and in his cloaca. Not only would I soak daily and have higher temps, I'd remove the substrate and just have paper, avoiding and chance of rot on his plastron. He probably won't pull thru, however...we don't know that, so if you want to fight for him, stop the injections...start baby food soaks...also, this may sound hokie, but when I have a really sick baby like yours, I hold them and make sure they can and will stay awake...sometimes I think when they are really sick they just go to sleep and don't wake up, So I hold them and talk to them...anyway...I do that

Good advice, only thing I’d change is keeping the substrate, provided it’s drier on top, shell rot won’t be an issue.

But if he’s not eating, aren’t the calcium injections, the only chance of him surviving?

the calcium won’t be able to be absorbed properly because of how poorly he is, it’s likely he’s in organ failure, all it will do is overwhelm his system, the only one I’d potentially continue is the Fortaz, but tbh even that makes me a little nervous with how small he is, but I definitely wouldn’t continue with the calcium or vitamin injections

 

[JDDV97]

Good advice, only thing I’d change is keeping the substrate, provided it’s drier on top, shell rot won’t be an issue.

the calcium won’t be able to be absorbed properly because of how poorly he is, it’s likely he’s in organ failure, all it will do is overwhelm his system, the only one I’d potentially continue is the Fortaz, but tbh even that makes me a little nervous with how small he is, but I definitely wouldn’t continue with the calcium or vitamin injections

I mean he opened both his eyes this morning for first time in a week after this morning soak.
Could the vitamins and injections possible helped ?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

We definitely don’t want you giving up on your baby altogether, miracles have happened. We just want you to prepare yourself, that based on all his symptoms and how he’s deteriorated, that it’s highly likely he’s past the point of return. It’s heartbreaking and I am truly so sorry you’ve experienced this, but keep on loving your baby and encouraging them to eat in any way you can, all that matters is that little one knows they’re loved and cared for no matter what, they’ll decide their own fate, but find solace in that you’re doing everything you can for them to give them a fighting chance, no matter how slim

I mean he opened both his eyes this morning for first time in a week after this morning soak.
Could the vitamins and injections possible helped ?

I would have to ask @Tom and @cooky_luvs opinion on this, but if I’m being honest I don’t think it’s the injections no, things happen quite slowly with tortoises, I don’t think his system could have processed them that quickly to have an immediate effect like that

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I mean he opened both his eyes this morning for first time in a week after this morning soak.
Could the vitamins and injections possible helped ?

It's hard to tell. Without a bloodwork panel injections are shots in the dark. If vitamins and calcium dosage were properly calculated, your baby has got some good nutrient boost + hydration. And that perked him up.

I'm not sure if calcium injections work without supplementing D3 (and how long injected calcium stays in the bloodstream). Also, I don't know if they are at all effective in case of kidney damage.

Almost all vitamins can be overdosed which can be lethal for a weakened tortoise.

If you are in a good contact with the vet you can discuss your concerns, "hatchling failure syndrome" and possibility of infections mentioned above.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

It's hard to tell. Without a bloodwork panel injections are shots in the dark. If vitamins and calcium dosage were properly calculated, your baby has got some good nutrient boost + hydration. And that perked him up.

Yeah I’d want some bloods before any possible vitamin and calcium, only then do I think they could potentially have some positive effect, it’s still just so tricky to say when he’s already so poorly though, I feel like even with the appropriate calculations, it’s walking a fine line of not overwhelming a very tiny, very poorly system that is already possibly failingleast with bloods you’d know where you stand better with the fortaz too. I do also worry about the baby’s stress levels during this time having an invasive test and more injections..
Perhaps this baby could be lucky in that the dosage hasn’t been high enough to hurt him, maybe giving him a needed boost.

Almost all vitamins can be overdosed which can be lethal for a weakened tortoise.

This point here is VERY important to consider though

 

[JDDV97]

Cool and damp is a freakin death sentence. I'd keep 80% humidity, 85 degrees and not only would I soak him DAILY, I'd add Gerber strained carrots to the water. He may drink some, but there's pretty soft skin under his neck and nutrition may soak in there and in his cloaca. Not only would I soak daily and have higher temps, I'd remove the substrate and just have paper, avoiding and chance of rot on his plastron. He probably won't pull thru, however...we don't know that, so if you want to fight for him, stop the injections...start baby food soaks...also, this may sound hokie, but when I have a really sick baby like yours, I hold them and make sure they can and will stay awake...sometimes I think when they are really sick they just go to sleep and don't wake up, So I hold them and talk to them...anyway...I do that

R u talking about these ? Put some of this is his water dish ?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

View attachment 379571 R u talking about these ? Put some of this is his water dish ?

Looks right. Mix 50/50 with warm soaking water. Soaks should be long, 30-60 minutes.

Also, you can make soaks in Pedialyte (non-flavored).

Right after the soak offer some foods (very finely chopped greens, pumpkin puree).

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

View attachment 379571 R u talking about these ? Put some of this is his water dish ?

I’d just add it to the water you’re soaking him in

 

[JDDV97]

I’d just add it to the water you’re soaking him in

Okay just put like a spoon full so there’s nutrients in the water ?

 

[JDDV97]

I’d just add it to the water you’re soaking him in

What do you think of pedialyte soak ?

 

[zolasmum]

Okay just put like a spoon full so there’s nutrients in the water ?

I think the usual idea is to have half-and-half warm water and carrot
Angie

 

[JDDV97]

I think the usual idea is to have half-and-half warm water and carrot
Angie

Understood I will post a picture shortly

 

[JDDV97]

I think the usual idea is to have half-and-half warm water and carrot
Angie

So half baby food / half water ? Won’t it be too mushy ?

 

[zolasmum]

So half baby food / half water ? Won’t it be too mushy ?

I've never needed to try it, but I should imagine the tortoise would need a bit of a rinse afterwards !
Angie

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I’d try the 50/50 carrot soaks for now, see how he gets on, keep us posted

 

[JDDV97]

I’d try the 50/50 carrot soaks for now, see how he gets on, keep us posted

Mid day soak . 2 eyes open and moving around in his dish . But he only moves while soaked

 

[JDDV97]

Gonna do the 50/50 baby food/water soak .

Someone mentioned a non flavored pedialyte soak . Thoughts ? @Tom @wellington @Littleredfootbigredheart @Yvonne G

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Mid day soak . 2 eyes open and moving around in his dish . But he only moves while soaked

That’s encouraging to hear, it may be a small step, but it’s a positive one nonetheless! Whilst he’s perked up a bit, see if he’ll have a little bite of something from your hand? Sometimes they can have more appetite after a soak