Crush's Second 'New' Enclosure

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Afternoon Tortoise loving family.

It's getting very close to time for Crush's next, more appropriately sized enclosure to start coming together. BUT,... I obviously need to run some things past all of you for approval, suggestions, Comments, and ideas FIRST!

So I'm in the process of building him a 4' x 6' x 2' enclosure. About 8" of the 2' height will be glass (because Mommy likes staring at her baby while he sleeps, eats and does his tortoise stuff ). My main question or planning concern is trying to figure out which light/heating element needs to be where, and how many of each one that I need so that I'm not doing things backwards like I had to last time.

He's currently in a 2' x 4' x 2'. He has 1 75w Arcadia basking bulb (95-100°F temp range, 10" dome, on 12hr timer), 1 Arcadia D3 12% UVB bulb (18" above substrate, checked with Solarmeter for UV output, on a shorter seperate timer), and a CHE (10" dome, on 24/7 with a thermostat).

The new enclosure will be 3 times the size. Does that equal double the amount of light/heat fixtures, triple the amount, or something else? I guesstimated that something like this would be the minimum? But I'd rather know for sure than guess.

All lights will be on chains like they are now. The bar lights will be suspended from a long bar down the middle, and domes will be suspended from individual posts. Similar to the below inspiration I've found. (Courtesy of @Littleredfootbigredheart )


I guess I'm just wondering does there need to be 1 or 2 basking bulbs, 1 or 2 UV bulbs (f.y.i. the one I have is 24"), and 2 or 3 CHEs. Side note, I have 12" LED bars (5000K color) that I can hang 1, 2, or 3 of depending on how much light is needed in areas away from 'light' provided by the basking and UV bulbs.
In addition the the light/heating bulbs, I feel like it's a safe bet that each CHE needs a seperate thermostat, thus the concern and desire for being prepared for this new endeavor.

Super fun extra 'P.S.' note: I started growing him Dandelion greens, Baby Arugula, Mustard Greens, Tortoise Grass, Dandelion flowers, and a Spider Plant so that he has stuff in his new enclosure to forage from if he feels like it! And to provide hiding spots for him. See pics below of the cute litte sprouts!

^Dandelion Greens

^Baby Arugula

^Mustard Greens

^Tortoise Grass
**Dandelion flowers have not sprouted yet, so no picture (they arrived much later), and spider plant is being grown at a friends house, so will share picture soon

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Afternoon Tortoise loving family.

It's getting very close to time for Crush's next, more appropriately sized enclosure to start coming together. BUT,... I obviously need to run some things past all of you for approval, suggestions, Comments, and ideas FIRST!

So I'm in the process of building him a 4' x 6' x 2' enclosure. About 8" of the 2' height will be glass (because Mommy likes staring at her baby while he sleeps, eats and does his tortoise stuff ). My main question or planning concern is trying to figure out which light/heating element needs to be where, and how many of each one that I need so that I'm not doing things backwards like I had to last time.

He's currently in a 2' x 4' x 2'. He has 1 75w Arcadia basking bulb (95-100°F temp range, 10" dome, on 12hr timer), 1 Arcadia D3 12% UVB bulb (18" above substrate, checked with Solarmeter for UV output, on a shorter seperate timer), and a CHE (10" dome, on 24/7 with a thermostat).
View attachment 385309
The new enclosure will be 3 times the size. Does that equal double the amount of light/heat fixtures, triple the amount, or something else? I guesstimated that something like this would be the minimum? But I'd rather know for sure than guess.
View attachment 385310
All lights will be on chains like they are now. The bar lights will be suspended from a long bar down the middle, and domes will be suspended from individual posts. Similar to the below inspiration I've found. (Courtesy of @Littleredfootbigredheart )
View attachment 385311
View attachment 385312
I guess I'm just wondering does there need to be 1 or 2 basking bulbs, 1 or 2 UV bulbs (f.y.i. the one I have is 24"), and 2 or 3 CHEs. Side note, I have 12" LED bars (5000K color) that I can hang 1, 2, or 3 of depending on how much light is needed in areas away from 'light' provided by the basking and UV bulbs.
In addition the the light/heating bulbs, I feel like it's a safe bet that each CHE needs a seperate thermostat, thus the concern and desire for being prepared for this new endeavor.

Super fun extra 'P.S.' note: I started growing him Dandelion greens, Baby Arugula, Mustard Greens, Tortoise Grass, Dandelion flowers, and a Spider Plant so that he has stuff in his new enclosure to forage from if he feels like it! And to provide hiding spots for him. See pics below of the cute litte sprouts!
View attachment 385313
^Dandelion Greens
View attachment 385314
^Baby Arugula
View attachment 385315
^Mustard Greens
View attachment 385316
^Tortoise Grass
**Dandelion flowers have not sprouted yet, so no picture (they arrived much later), and spider plant is being grown at a friends house, so will share picture soon

Oooo exciting plans ahead indeed!!

To answer your questions, in regards to basking, only one basking spot will be necessary, same temperature directly underneath that you’ve achieved now
Then mount you t5 strip uvb as close as you can to it, these will both be further one end. The one 24w uvb bulb is fine.

To keep your ambient temperatures where needed in the rest of the enclosure, that’s where your CHE(s) will come in, you can actually run two ceramics off of one thermostat using a power strip(make sure the thermostat watt is at least double the watts you’re putting in) the probe placement will depend where you hang the bulbs. This is a rough suggestion for placement below, you can of course run plenty of checks and adjust accordingly to your temperatures, obviously feel free to post when the time comes for different suggestions from people
Perhaps try the first placement first, run checks when it’s on during the day and when it’d go off and see for your temperatures are doing, if you aren’t happy with them, try adding a second ceramic.

You can mount all your strip LEDs in the middle so the whole enclosure is nicely lit.

Aw cute baby plants!!

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Oooo exciting plans ahead indeed!!

To answer your questions, in regards to basking, only one basking spot will be necessary, same temperature directly underneath that you’ve achieved now
Then mount you t5 strip uvb as close as you can to it, these will both be further one end. The one 24w uvb bulb is fine.

To keep your ambient temperatures where needed in the rest of the enclosure, that’s where your CHE(s) will come in, you can actually run two ceramics off of one thermostat using a power strip(make sure the thermostat watt is at least double the watts you’re putting in) the probe placement will depend where you hang the bulbs. This is a rough suggestion for placement below, you can of course run plenty of checks and adjust accordingly to your temperatures, obviously feel free to post when the time comes for different suggestions from people
Perhaps try the first placement first, run checks when it’s on during the day and when it’d go off and see for your temperatures are doing, if you aren’t happy with them, try adding a second ceramic.
View attachment 385317
You can mount all your strip LEDs in the middle so the whole enclosure is nicely lit.

Aw cute baby plants!!

I am so glad you posted this picture, because it brings up a huge question I've had, but never even thought to ask (brain !)
So I've read in this forum (and believe been directly told at some point) that the thermostat prope should be somewhat directly beneath whatever heating element your trying to control the temperature of. I'm assuming that that is to ensure that it doesn't get significantly hotter directly under whichever heating element is being monitored. Am I right or wrong in thinking that?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I am so glad you posted this picture, because it brings up a huge question I've had, but never even thought to ask (brain !)
So I've read in this forum (and believe been directly told at some point) that the thermostat prope should be somewhat directly beneath whatever heating element your trying to control the temperature of. I'm assuming that that is to ensure that it doesn't get significantly hotter directly under whichever heating element is being monitored. Am I right or wrong in thinking that?

For the CHE you would place the probe in the coldest end. This is because the point of the CHE and thermostat is to make sure that the temperatures won't drop below a certain point anywhere in the enclosure.

 

[wellington]

I am so glad you posted this picture, because it brings up a huge question I've had, but never even thought to ask (brain !)
So I've read in this forum (and believe been directly told at some point) that the thermostat prope should be somewhat directly beneath whatever heating element your trying to control the temperature of. I'm assuming that that is to ensure that it doesn't get significantly hotter directly under whichever heating element is being monitored. Am I right or wrong in thinking that?

Right under the heat source is only for checking for correct temps under the basking bulb.you let it sit under the basking bulb for about an hour to be sure the basking temp is high enough or not too high.
Otherwise, no, it should not be under a heat source but further away in what would likely be the coolest part of the enclosure.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

For the CHE you would place the probe in the coldest end. This is because the point of the CHE and thermostat is to make sure that the temperatures won't drop below a certain point anywhere in the enclosure.

I totally understand that. But wouldn't that mean that directly under the CHE(s) might get too hot?

Example: thermostat is in the location marked in LittleRed's first diagram. The probe registers X temp (let's say 80°F), that COULD potentially mean that the temperatures under the CHE is 85-90°F. Is that too warm?

Additional information/example: in my current setup photo below, the probe is where the red circle is. When I set the thermostat to 77°F, the area in the corner (blue circle) is around 73°F.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I totally understand that. But wouldn't that mean that directly under the CHE(s) might get too hot?

Example: thermostat is in the location marked in LittleRed's first diagram. The probe registers X temp (let's say 80°F), that COULD potentially mean that the temperatures under the CHE is 85-90°F. Is that too warm?

Additional information/example: in my current setup photo below, the probe is where the red circle is. When I set the thermostat to 77°F, the area in the corner (blue circle) is around 73°F.
View attachment 385350

Yes, you are right. The recommendation to put a thermostat probe in the cold end works only for "closed chamber" enclosures. To avoid "hot-spots" it's better to have more evenly spaced lower wattage heaters than only one super powerful.

In open table setups it's nearly impossible to heat up whole space using a single spot heater like CHE. In this case you place a probe under the heating element or in-between them. You can warm up a night hide with CHE, for example, put a probe inside the hide and make sure tortoise sleeps there all night.

Another case for placing probes under heat source is when you have a basking lamp, dimming thermostat and you want to control basking area temperature without adjusting lamp height. This isn't really necessary - usually you just change lamp to lower wattage in hot season and back to higher wattage in colder seasons.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Yes, you are right. The recommendation to put a thermostat probe in the cold end works only for "closed chamber" enclosures. To avoid "hot-spots" it's better to have more evenly spaced lower wattage heaters than only one super powerful.

In open table setups it's nearly impossible to heat up whole space using a single spot heater like CHE. In this case you place a probe under the heating element or in-between them. You can warm up a night hide with CHE, for example, put a probe inside the hide and make sure tortoise sleeps there all night.

Another case for placing probes under heat source is when you have a basking lamp, dimming thermostat and you want to control basking area temperature without adjusting lamp height. This isn't really necessary - usually you just change lamp to lower wattage in hot season and back to higher wattage in colder seasons.

Ok, thank you for clarifying. So, maybe I missed something, but is the running there that I'll just need 2 CHEs for the new, larger enclosure? Or should I get 3 to be safe?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Ok, thank you for clarifying. So, maybe I missed something, but is the running there that I'll just need 2 CHEs for the new, larger enclosure? Or should I get 3 to be safe?

Sorry for the delay! Those responses above are perfect hope they helped! This was a very good valid question

As for the number, personally I’d start with two and run checks before investing in a 3rd

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Sorry for the delay! Those responses above are perfect hope they helped! This was a very good valid question

As for the number, personally I’d start with two and run checks before investing in a 3rd

Got it. Thanks again!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok, thank you for clarifying. So, maybe I missed something, but is the running there that I'll just need 2 CHEs for the new, larger enclosure? Or should I get 3 to be safe?

Honestly, I doubt you even need one for the adult Russian tortoise in South Florida. What is the coldest winter night's temperature in the room with the enclosure?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Honestly, I doubt you even need one for the adult Russian tortoise in South Florida. What is the coldest winter night's temperature in the room with the enclosure?

Good point Alex! Didn’t even look at his location! My bad lol

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Honestly, I doubt you even need one for the adult Russian tortoise in South Florida. What is the coldest winter night's temperature in the room with the enclosure?

Well we had a cold front so even with the AC not turning on, the house was dropping to 67-68°F. And the main thing i was thinking was because of the enclosure being larger.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Well we had a cold front so even with the AC not turning on, the house was dropping to 67-68°F. And the main thing i was thinking was because of the enclosure being larger.

67-68F is a safe nighttime ambient temperature for Russian tortoises. They can tolerate occasional dips into lower 60s as well.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

67-68F is a safe nighttime ambient temperature for Russian tortoises. They can tolerate occasional dips into lower 60s as well.

Ok, thanks. I guess I'm just concerned due to the larger enclosure and the fact that he's got the ongoing infection thing. Probably a case of overly concerned tort mom

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok, thanks. I guess I'm just concerned due to the larger enclosure and the fact that he's got the ongoing infection thing. Probably a case of overly concerned tort mom

You may need to rise ambient temperature for a tortoise struggling with a respiratory infection but, perhaps, it's easier to do with a smaller temporary "closed chamber" than having a bunch of CHEs hanging and normally turned off 99% of the time.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

You may need to rise ambient temperature for a tortoise struggling with a respiratory infection but, perhaps, it's easier to do with a smaller temporary "closed chamber" than having a bunch of CHEs hanging and normally turned off 99% of the time.

I'm becoming confident it will all work out. Find out next weekend when we put it together!!!

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Okay. The new enclosure is DONE!

@Littleredfootbigredheart @Alex and the Redfoot @Tom @Yvonne G

 

[Daffodil]

The face plant pic made me laugh. My guy does that, too.

Crush needs some little spider plants in there to stomp on! LOL

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

The face plant pic made me laugh. My guy does that, too.

Crush needs some little spider plants in there to stomp on! LOL

Greenery is the next step. Lol. This took all day and all my energy!