Okay we all know, you are not allowed to take the DTs across state lines. We also know your not to incubate them in CA. Now, since I have not read this anywhere, can you take DT eggs out of state?
Curiosity and legality question...
- Thread starter Jacqui
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RE: Curiousity and legality question...
I would say no, since they are a protected species you are not supposed to disturb the eggs, I would assume that digging them up and transporting them would be included in that.
If anyone disagrees or know differently please say so.
I would say no, since they are a protected species you are not supposed to disturb the eggs, I would assume that digging them up and transporting them would be included in that.
If anyone disagrees or know differently please say so.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Except I do recall some where, where they suggest you to destroy those eggs.
Except I do recall some where, where they suggest you to destroy those eggs.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
as far as I know destroying the eggs would be a crime, this is the way it was explained to me, the eggs one laid cannot be helped (incubation) or harmed in any way they are considered protected like the tortoises are.
as far as I know destroying the eggs would be a crime, this is the way it was explained to me, the eggs one laid cannot be helped (incubation) or harmed in any way they are considered protected like the tortoises are.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
I see where this is going Jacqui, and I wanna know for sure too....
I see where this is going Jacqui, and I wanna know for sure too....
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Hmmm, I did some googling and nothing states crossing state lines. However I did find, that it IS illegal to allow them to breed. I am going to email one of the CTTC members here and see if I can find something out.
This link has tons of info, but not the answer that I could find.
http://www.deserttortoise.org/answeringquestions/chapter1.html
Hmmm, I did some googling and nothing states crossing state lines. However I did find, that it IS illegal to allow them to breed. I am going to email one of the CTTC members here and see if I can find something out.
This link has tons of info, but not the answer that I could find.
http://www.deserttortoise.org/answeringquestions/chapter1.html
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
At the very beginning of the regulations regarding the tortoise section it refers to tortoises and eggs. Both considered to be the same thing.
At the very beginning of the regulations regarding the tortoise section it refers to tortoises and eggs. Both considered to be the same thing.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Does it say anything about decorating them for Easter?
Does it say anything about decorating them for Easter?
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Hi all
It is against the law to co habitat male and female CDT in the same space as breeding is strictly prohibited.....if you rescue/host a female and she lays clutch of eggs you are not permitted to touch,harm,harass, molest nor sell the eggs....
The whole idea behind folks being allowed to host (not own) CDT is to care for now captive tortoise through out their remaining natural life and not to breed captive CDT....and AZ has even stricter laws than CA..... if you go to CA Dept of Fish & Game you can obtain the entire law for CDT as well as AZ Fish & Game for their laws....
The prime goal should be preservation and conservation of these guys in the wild....
Shelly you are silly
Hi all
It is against the law to co habitat male and female CDT in the same space as breeding is strictly prohibited.....if you rescue/host a female and she lays clutch of eggs you are not permitted to touch,harm,harass, molest nor sell the eggs....
The whole idea behind folks being allowed to host (not own) CDT is to care for now captive tortoise through out their remaining natural life and not to breed captive CDT....and AZ has even stricter laws than CA..... if you go to CA Dept of Fish & Game you can obtain the entire law for CDT as well as AZ Fish & Game for their laws....
The prime goal should be preservation and conservation of these guys in the wild....
Shelly you are silly
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
I have nothing against conservation of those still left in the wild. We are not talking here of wild animals, I am referring to the ones living in backyards.
I think these laws are completely stupid and not in the best interest of these animals. Why not allow them to breed? Why not allow them to go out of state? To me, that would be in the best interest of the species.
These tortoises are in essence the property of the USA, not just the few states they are found in naturally. Why not let the rest of the country also take a role in keeping them alive?
I have nothing against conservation of those still left in the wild. We are not talking here of wild animals, I am referring to the ones living in backyards.
I think these laws are completely stupid and not in the best interest of these animals. Why not allow them to breed? Why not allow them to go out of state? To me, that would be in the best interest of the species.
These tortoises are in essence the property of the USA, not just the few states they are found in naturally. Why not let the rest of the country also take a role in keeping them alive?
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Jacqui, I believe that there should be better guidelines set up to re-introduce the CDT back into the wild. I know that there is a source or two (not many, not enough) that are in the business of rehab and reintroduction....but there are so many other things that happen to cause the situation to be grim that these guys are in.
In my opinion, if there were no laws set up and these guys were not on a list for protection then there would be even fewer in the wild. For so many years in the past (and still in this day and age) so many people ripped them from the wild only to be left poorly cared for in backyards to die, or they were neglected in such a way to cause such stress which in turn brought on disease, then they would be tossed back into the desert and not always where they should have but in areas where death was certain, as well as exposure to healthy wild populations....bad all of the way around.
The flip side of the way I feel is this, we have them added to list to be protected, yet then we later sell them out and allow solar plants to be built on prime habitat (could be granted in other areas that would be less of a disturbance to them and other desert dwellers and plants) we have government that are quick to collect and displace them but with little account for their actual long term survival let alone thriving conditions....I know for a fact that the last time the translocation was done for the CDT they were hoarded up, moved and set down without even so much as increased native planting done to support them...a bit backwards, in my opinion...now we have an expressway that is on the block to be approved that will, once again, plow right through vital CDT habitat...so my feelings are always mixed on this whole issue....set em up to protect them, fight to move them so money can be made, move em to non prime habitat, they then are subject to starvation, disease and predation that they would not have had to deal with if just left alone....so, yes, personal two sided on the whole issue....however, I have to continue to side with the law as their only thread of hope....
Jacqui, I believe that there should be better guidelines set up to re-introduce the CDT back into the wild. I know that there is a source or two (not many, not enough) that are in the business of rehab and reintroduction....but there are so many other things that happen to cause the situation to be grim that these guys are in.
In my opinion, if there were no laws set up and these guys were not on a list for protection then there would be even fewer in the wild. For so many years in the past (and still in this day and age) so many people ripped them from the wild only to be left poorly cared for in backyards to die, or they were neglected in such a way to cause such stress which in turn brought on disease, then they would be tossed back into the desert and not always where they should have but in areas where death was certain, as well as exposure to healthy wild populations....bad all of the way around.
The flip side of the way I feel is this, we have them added to list to be protected, yet then we later sell them out and allow solar plants to be built on prime habitat (could be granted in other areas that would be less of a disturbance to them and other desert dwellers and plants) we have government that are quick to collect and displace them but with little account for their actual long term survival let alone thriving conditions....I know for a fact that the last time the translocation was done for the CDT they were hoarded up, moved and set down without even so much as increased native planting done to support them...a bit backwards, in my opinion...now we have an expressway that is on the block to be approved that will, once again, plow right through vital CDT habitat...so my feelings are always mixed on this whole issue....set em up to protect them, fight to move them so money can be made, move em to non prime habitat, they then are subject to starvation, disease and predation that they would not have had to deal with if just left alone....so, yes, personal two sided on the whole issue....however, I have to continue to side with the law as their only thread of hope....
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
I believe they are the property of the state not the federal goverment. I hope this isn't off topic.....but an Indian Reservation in California is not part of the state of California (They say) they do not fly the California flag, but do fly the U.S. flag. They say they are a sovereign nation. I drive through Barona all the time. If I have my CDT with me am I breaking the law?
I also read somewhere that you should destroy eggs but I don't know where. I could never do that.
I believe they are the property of the state not the federal goverment. I hope this isn't off topic.....but an Indian Reservation in California is not part of the state of California (They say) they do not fly the California flag, but do fly the U.S. flag. They say they are a sovereign nation. I drive through Barona all the time. If I have my CDT with me am I breaking the law?
I also read somewhere that you should destroy eggs but I don't know where. I could never do that.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Technically you would be if you crossed into the reservation.
Angi said:
Technically you would be if you crossed into the reservation.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
here is the problem as i see it, we call them California desert tortoises, but the tortoise does not really care where it lives, the tortoise would probably being happy just about anywhere in the country where it can eat, mate, and hibernate when necessary. We should rename all of them the gopherus species and let them live anywhere in the country. But oh no that might make sense to some people and make things easier and we all know the goverment can't do that.
here is the problem as i see it, we call them California desert tortoises, but the tortoise does not really care where it lives, the tortoise would probably being happy just about anywhere in the country where it can eat, mate, and hibernate when necessary. We should rename all of them the gopherus species and let them live anywhere in the country. But oh no that might make sense to some people and make things easier and we all know the goverment can't do that.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Angi, I think you would be alright anywhere within the state of california to have in your care, custody and control a CDT with the appropriate permits of course, regardless of what the tribes have set up they are still within the state of california.....
I too absolutely would not, could not smash CDT eggs, nor any other living creatures eggs. I do not believe the design of the law is to encourage one to purposely go out of their way to destroy CDT eggs, but rather in place to simply outline, "let nature takes its course", and if you find eggs, let em be.
If you should have a viable hatchling born in captivity it will not be subject to release into the wild, therefore you have a captive born hatchling and they can be permitted as such at the suggested age (can't say they are captive bred for sure since females can retain the ability to lay eggs for years, so who is to say they were wild bred/captive bred---and folks that have had them for a long period of time should do the species justice and house the males/females separate from one another)
Unfortunately, there is a HUGE population of now captive CDT in rescues just waiting to be taken in by a host that will love and adore them....and these guys live for soooo many years, I personally believe, there is no justified reason to breed them into captivity on purpose...again, my personal belief....
Angi, I think you would be alright anywhere within the state of california to have in your care, custody and control a CDT with the appropriate permits of course
, regardless of what the tribes have set up they are still within the state of california.....I too absolutely would not, could not smash CDT eggs, nor any other living creatures eggs. I do not believe the design of the law is to encourage one to purposely go out of their way to destroy CDT eggs, but rather in place to simply outline, "let nature takes its course", and if you find eggs, let em be.
If you should have a viable hatchling born in captivity it will not be subject to release into the wild, therefore you have a captive born hatchling and they can be permitted as such at the suggested age
(can't say they are captive bred for sure since females can retain the ability to lay eggs for years, so who is to say they were wild bred/captive bred---and folks that have had them for a long period of time should do the species justice and house the males/females separate from one another) Unfortunately, there is a HUGE population of now captive CDT in rescues just waiting to be taken in by a host that will love and adore them....and these guys live for soooo many years, I personally believe, there is no justified reason to breed them into captivity on purpose...again, my personal belief....
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
So why not let the rest of the country have them?
Makes complete sense to me and this is exactly my line of thinking.
ascott said:
So why not let the rest of the country have them?
dmmj said:
Makes complete sense to me and this is exactly my line of thinking.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Jacqui, In my opinion, the rest of the country is not designed to allow a desert dweller to thrive in their climates/weather not conducive to their well being....indoor housing, for the usual host, is not sufficient to meet their long long life....
I believe that these guys are stuck in the same sinking boat as so many other animals that we humans are directly responsible for their demise by our overpopulation to this earth...as a downfall of this overpopulation, other creatures are literally snuffed out, off the face of the earth....so while I too have internal conflict with this entire subject (for the tortoise as well as so many other creatures we disregard with a sad face, a tear and onto the next day) we humans are such a creature of "want" that I believe we will one day realize, hopefully not too late, that our want and greed has done ourselves in as well....so, Jacqui, I completely understand where you are coming from, completely.
I think that if we all used less, wanted less, demanded less, gave more, let live more, enjoy the moment more, extend our hands more, lower our eyes in shame more, truly cry from our hearts for others sadness and misfortune more, humble ourselves to one another more, just love one another more....our world, as beautiful and magnificent as she is, would thrive in a marvelous way, in a way that we can only imagine, an ideal world.... true self preservation would blossom, in my humble opinion :shy:
Jacqui, In my opinion
, the rest of the country is not designed to allow a desert dweller to thrive in their climates/weather not conducive to their well being....indoor housing, for the usual host, is not sufficient to meet their long long life....I believe that these guys are stuck in the same sinking boat as so many other animals that we humans are directly responsible for their demise by our overpopulation to this earth...as a downfall of this overpopulation, other creatures are literally snuffed out, off the face of the earth....so while I too have internal conflict with this entire subject (for the tortoise as well as so many other creatures we disregard with a sad face, a tear and onto the next day) we humans are such a creature of "want" that I believe we will one day realize, hopefully not too late, that our want and greed has done ourselves in as well....so, Jacqui, I completely understand where you are coming from, completely.
I think that if we all used less, wanted less, demanded less, gave more, let live more, enjoy the moment more, extend our hands more, lower our eyes in shame more, truly cry from our hearts for others sadness and misfortune more, humble ourselves to one another more, just love one another more....our world, as beautiful and magnificent as she is, would thrive in a marvelous way, in a way that we can only imagine, an ideal world.... true self preservation would blossom, in my humble opinion :shy:
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
Now I know from personal experience that they can and do thrive outside of their native areas. I inherited ones years back, who outlived two sets of humans before Elmer came to live with us. Even back then, when these folks did just about everything wrong as far as diet and the like, he grew and never was sick. think how much better his life would be, if it was under today's much more understanding ways of caring for them. I find the "reasoning" that they can't do well outside of their natural range to be, well bunk.
It's kinda along the lines of saying a Red eared slider should not be living in a desert area... just saying.
Now I know from personal experience that they can and do thrive outside of their native areas. I inherited ones years back, who outlived two sets of humans before Elmer came to live with us. Even back then, when these folks did just about everything wrong as far as diet and the like, he grew and never was sick. think how much better his life would be, if it was under today's much more understanding ways of caring for them. I find the "reasoning" that they can't do well outside of their natural range to be, well bunk.
It's kinda along the lines of saying a Red eared slider should not be living in a desert area... just saying.
RE: Curiousity and legality question...
In my opinion, there will always be exceptions, to every normal
In my opinion, there will always be exceptions, to every normal
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