dry tortoise shell?

[Yingg]

@Yingg .... I am so sorry to have not explained the type to get in my earlier post. That is a "Refined" oil, you need "Unrefined and Expeller Pressed" oil. That brand does make this oil but am not sure if it's sold in major brand stores. Again I am so sorry for not explaining this previously. It says a lot that you went out and bought some, Kudos to you.
Refined and Cold Pressed remove some of the Key components needed to "Hydrate" Keratin. I'm guessing that they may still have some effects but not sure how effective they are. Coconut oil fats are comprised of about 50% Lauric acid, the highest of any oils. The next best would be Jojoba oil, not to sure on "What" the exacts are like being Unrefined, since I solely use Coconut oil.

oh, hello, sorry for mentioning again. someone told that coconut oil isn't "natural" and wouldn't appear in the wild. that and it clogs the pores on a tortoise's shell which is difficult to clean. if this is true, how can i avoid the pore clogging part? i don't mind if it's not "something natural", as long as my tortoise gets better in a way, i suppose antibiotics are very much not natural, as are supplements. yet we still use them and they help, so natural or not shouldn't pose too much of an issue in this case XD

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

oh, hello, sorry for mentioning again. someone told that coconut oil isn't "natural" and wouldn't appear in the wild. that and it clogs the pores on a tortoise's shell which is difficult to clean. if this is true, how can i avoid the pore clogging part? i don't mind if it's not "something natural", as long as my tortoise gets better in a way, i suppose antibiotics are very much not natural, as are supplements. yet we still use them and they help, so natural or not shouldn't pose too much of an issue in this case XD

Tortoises don't breath or excrete anything through their shells. There is a risk of "trapping" anaerobic bacteria (those, who live without an oxygen) under the layer of oil. In case of bacterial shell root this will cause a trouble, but not for a healthy tortoise. As of cleaning - you apply it once in two weeks, not everyday, and remove all excesses.

Comparing living in the wild to captivity is, actually, "apples to oranges". No matter how much we try - there is no way to create Sahel desert or Chaco forest in the backyard. Following this logic we should ditch any "non-native" foods from their diet.

 

[EppsDynasty]

oh, hello, sorry for mentioning again. someone told that coconut oil isn't "natural" and wouldn't appear in the wild. that and it clogs the pores on a tortoise's shell which is difficult to clean. if this is true, how can i avoid the pore clogging part? i don't mind if it's not "something natural", as long as my tortoise gets better in a way, i suppose antibiotics are very much not natural, as are supplements. yet we still use them and they help, so natural or not shouldn't pose too much of an issue in this case XD

Lauric acid makes up 50% of the fats in coconut oil, Lauric acid MAKES the Keratin ABSORB the oil. If you wipe the shell down 30-45 minutes after applying the shell will not PLUG UP. Keratin is what your nails are made of, your hair is made of and there is a ton of info on Keratin Repair. Coconut oil is used to Hydrate the shell and not PLUG it. Use any other oil and you WILL plug the shell with oil.

 

[Yingg]

Lauric acid makes up 50% of the fats in coconut oil, Lauric acid MAKES the Keratin ABSORB the oil. If you wipe the shell down 30-45 minutes after applying the shell will not PLUG UP. Keratin is what your nails are made of, your hair is made of and there is a ton of info on Keratin Repair. Coconut oil is used to Hydrate the shell and not PLUG it. Use any other oil and you WILL plug the shell with oil.

thank you. i'll tell them this. to be honest i trust you more than what they say. but i think theyll argue. honestly, shutting up might be a better idea. haha. thank you for the knowledge, i learned lots. even if my tortoise doesn't make it because of improper husbandry in the past (which is all my fault, i have no excuses.) if i ever come across another i will take care of it much better. this forum is amazing.

 

[EppsDynasty]

My wife and I are just real Tortoise lovers. We love to help any tort we can. And yes this is a special place.

 

[Yingg]

I am a dentist who kept tortoises continuously for 61 years, from 1958 through 2019. I almost went to veterinary school, but at the last minute decided on being a dentist instead.

I was on the staff of the Bronx Zoo from 1976 through 2007 and was exposed to numerous veterinary procedures which were performed on their tortoises, turtles, and many other animals as well.

hello, i returned from the vet. She said that my tortoise didn't even have edema, she was just fat. she said her shell was healthy too, but i know it really isn't. i'm really concerned because i told her my enclosure is small (planning to upgrade, don't worry) and she said it was fine. that concerns me a lot. i hope she said it's okay because i let my tortoise outdoors a lot, she doesn't stay indoors 24/7. what should i do? she also prescribed antibiotic for her shell, because she noticed areas that could have bacteria related damage.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

hello, i returned from the vet. She said that my tortoise didn't even have edema, she was just fat. she said her shell was healthy too, but i know it really isn't. i'm really concerned because i told her my enclosure is small (planning to upgrade, don't worry) and she said it was fine. that concerns me a lot. i hope she said it's okay because i let my tortoise outdoors a lot, she doesn't stay indoors 24/7. what should i do? she also prescribed antibiotic for her shell, because she noticed areas that could have bacteria related damage.

Mmm she doesn’t sound the most knowledgeable on tortoises, out of interest what antibiotic has she prescribed?

 

[EppsDynasty]

hello, i returned from the vet. She said that my tortoise didn't even have edema, she was just fat. she said her shell was healthy too, but i know it really isn't. i'm really concerned because i told her my enclosure is small (planning to upgrade, don't worry) and she said it was fine. that concerns me a lot. i hope she said it's okay because i let my tortoise outdoors a lot, she doesn't stay indoors 24/7. what should i do? she also prescribed antibiotic for her shell, because she noticed areas that could have bacteria related damage.

You have just been part of a scam....Let me explain. That Vet most likely doesn't know squat about tortoises, but will not admit that even to herself. So instead of not charging you and explaining "you need to see a different vet" (one knowledgeable about tortoises) she comes up with a treatment plan that you need to pay her for..SCAM. This is very common to pay lots of money for a vet and still the tortoise suffers, or is put through torture of being injected. You are still at square 1, you didn't gain anything by seeing that vet most likely.
I wonder if that Vet could even identify what species of tortoise she was looking at?

 

[Yingg]

Mmm she doesn’t sound the most knowledgeable on tortoises, out of interest what antibiotic has she prescribed?

it's called chlorhexidine

 

[Yingg]

You have just been part of a scam....Let me explain. That Vet most likely doesn't know squat about tortoises, but will not admit that even to herself. So instead of not charging you and explaining "you need to see a different vet" (one knowledgeable about tortoises) she comes up with a treatment plan that you need to pay her for..SCAM. This is very common to pay lots of money for a vet and still the tortoise suffers, or is put through torture of being injected. You are still at square 1, you didn't gain anything by seeing that vet most likely.
I wonder if that Vet could even identify what species of tortoise she was looking at?

this vet apparently only has a turtle. i cross checked her and she went to cornell, which i figured should at least mean that she's pretty decent in terms of studying. now i'm so lost. my mom is the one who takes me to the vet, i can't switch vets. i mentioned the edema, and she felt my tortoise. she said it felt "like fat, and there weren't any water pockets". those are her exact words. it costed $200... this isn't money i can easily spare, im a high schooler who is just trying to work so i can pay for the vet.

the vet also mentioned that my tortoise had some "overgrown" shell bits. she also said that the shape of her shell was unusual (curved upwards around the leg) but as far as i'm concerned, that's normal for a tortoise. what really threw me off is i gave her a very small cage size. she didn't even react, she said that was okay. my mom told me to be quiet, and not ask the vet anything because she is "the most experienced". i couldn't really get to ask anything specific because of that, and ended up paying probably 250$ because she needed sedation for a beak trim. but at her past vet, she never needed it. i know my tortoise, she isn't unreasonable.

so sorry for the long response. i fear this forum is all i have in terms of tortoise healthcare. obviously the vets i go to aren't the best. i can't even change vets because of my mom, and it would cost extra money that i simply don't have at the moment. what should i do..,.

my mom says i shouldn't spend extra money if my tortoise is still alive. she basically doesn't care if my tort suffers, she is the type to say "if the tortoise will live through this pain, don't solve it".

 

[Yingg]

You have just been part of a scam....Let me explain. That Vet most likely doesn't know squat about tortoises, but will not admit that even to herself. So instead of not charging you and explaining "you need to see a different vet" (one knowledgeable about tortoises) she comes up with a treatment plan that you need to pay her for..SCAM. This is very common to pay lots of money for a vet and still the tortoise suffers, or is put through torture of being injected. You are still at square 1, you didn't gain anything by seeing that vet most likely.
I wonder if that Vet could even identify what species of tortoise she was looking at?

this vet apparently only has a turtle. i cross checked her and she went to cornell, which i figured should at least mean that she's pretty decent in terms of studying. now i'm so lost. my mom is the one who takes me to the vet, i can't switch vets. i mentioned the edema, and she felt my tortoise. she said it felt "like fat, and there weren't any water pockets". those are her exact words. it costed $200... this isn't money i can easily spare, im a high schooler who is just trying to work so i can pay for the vet.

the vet also mentioned that my tortoise had some "overgrown" shell bits. she also said that the shape of her shell was unusual (curved upwards around the leg) but as far as i'm concerned, that's normal for a tortoise. what really threw me off is i gave her a very small cage size. she didn't even react, she said that was okay. my mom told me to be quiet, and not ask the vet anything because she is "the most experienced". i couldn't really get to ask anything specific because of that, and ended up paying probably 250$ because she needed sedation for a beak trim. but at her past vet, she never needed it. i know my tortoise, she isn't unreasonable.

so sorry for the long response. i fear this forum is all i have in terms of tortoise healthcare. obviously the vets i go to aren't the best. i can't even change vets because of my mom, and it would cost extra money that i simply don't have at the moment. what should i do..,.

this vet apparently only has a turtle. i cross checked her and she went to cornell, which i figured should at least mean that she's pretty decent in terms of studying. now i'm so lost. my mom is the one who takes me to the vet, i can't switch vets. i mentioned the edema, and she felt my tortoise. she said it felt "like fat, and there weren't any water pockets". those are her exact words. it costed $200... this isn't money i can easily spare, im a high schooler who is just trying to work so i can pay for the vet.

the vet also mentioned that my tortoise had some "overgrown" shell bits. she also said that the shape of her shell was unusual (curved upwards around the leg) but as far as i'm concerned, that's normal for a tortoise. what really threw me off is i gave her a very small cage size. she didn't even react, she said that was okay. my mom told me to be quiet, and not ask the vet anything because she is "the most experienced". i couldn't really get to ask anything specific because of that, and ended up paying probably 250$ because she needed sedation for a beak trim. but at her past vet, she never needed it. i know my tortoise, she isn't unreasonable.

so sorry for the long response. i fear this forum is all i have in terms of tortoise healthcare. obviously the vets i go to aren't the best. i can't even change vets because of my mom, and it would cost extra money that i simply don't have at the moment. what should i do..,.

my mom says i shouldn't spend extra money if my tortoise is still alive. she basically doesn't care if my tort suffers, she is the type to say "if the tortoise will live through this pain, don't solve it".

i also think it's important to note that the vet told me to soak her LESS (i soak every two days) because of "bacterial infection"

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

this vet apparently only has a turtle. i cross checked her and she went to cornell, which i figured should at least mean that she's pretty decent in terms of studying. now i'm so lost. my mom is the one who takes me to the vet, i can't switch vets. i mentioned the edema, and she felt my tortoise. she said it felt "like fat, and there weren't any water pockets". those are her exact words. it costed $200... this isn't money i can easily spare, im a high schooler who is just trying to work so i can pay for the vet.

the vet also mentioned that my tortoise had some "overgrown" shell bits. she also said that the shape of her shell was unusual (curved upwards around the leg) but as far as i'm concerned, that's normal for a tortoise. what really threw me off is i gave her a very small cage size. she didn't even react, she said that was okay. my mom told me to be quiet, and not ask the vet anything because she is "the most experienced". i couldn't really get to ask anything specific because of that, and ended up paying probably 250$ because she needed sedation for a beak trim. but at her past vet, she never needed it. i know my tortoise, she isn't unreasonable.

so sorry for the long response. i fear this forum is all i have in terms of tortoise healthcare. obviously the vets i go to aren't the best. i can't even change vets because of my mom, and it would cost extra money that i simply don't have at the moment. what should i do..,.

i also think it's important to note that the vet told me to soak her LESS (i soak every two days) because of "bacterial infection"

I'm sorry about your vet experience. That's really disappointing. And just in case, it's totally normal to ask questions to your doctor (be it human or vet specialist) including questions about education and experience. It's not rude or wrong, but a part of forming a "compliance" between doctor and patient (unless you constantly challenge doctor's knowledge and call him names ).

Chlorhexidine to flush areas of bacterial infection is a commonly used medication. Neosporin should be more effective. Did she show you infected areas to apply treatment?

I hope, the vet can really tell the difference between fat and edema. In either case, husbandry should be adjusted (and you are already doing great at it). Treating the cause of edema can cost a lot and first some diagnostic tests should be done (perhaps, general urine and bloodwork first as less expensive and then biochemistry if needed).

I would not react on "small enclosure size" too if tortoise spends almost full day outside.

Soaking less is "almost" a good advice - if there is a bacterial infection, keeping it dry helps. So soakings are fine, but damaged shell areas should be kept dry.

Maybe this vet has more background on aquatic turtles than on tortoises.

I think, Yvonne gave a good advise above - your tortoise is active, eating and exploring, you have done some improvements in care and plan for more. For a while you can relax and watch if there are any improvements.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I am really sorry for your experience too😔I’ve felt very lost myself at times when it comes to their health and sourcing the right vet, so I completely sympathise with you here!
You’re doing your very best in trying to get her to improve and making any changes you need to❤️
I think like Alex said, let’s sit back for a bit and see if these treatments start to improve things and go from there. Some more investigation might be needed for some of the issues she’s having like the potential edema, but again one step at a time.

Just know with us, you’re never alone here, they’ll always be someone along to support you🥰

 

[Yingg]

I'm sorry about your vet experience. That's really disappointing. And just in case, it's totally normal to ask questions to your doctor (be it human or vet specialist) including questions about education and experience. It's not rude or wrong, but a part of forming a "compliance" between doctor and patient (unless you constantly challenge doctor's knowledge and call him names ).

Chlorhexidine to flush areas of bacterial infection is a commonly used medication. Neosporin should be more effective. Did she show you infected areas to apply treatment?

I hope, the vet can really tell the difference between fat and edema. In either case, husbandry should be adjusted (and you are already doing great at it). Treating the cause of edema can cost a lot and first some diagnostic tests should be done (perhaps, general urine and bloodwork first as less expensive and then biochemistry if needed).

I would not react on "small enclosure size" too if tortoise spends almost full day outside.

Soaking less is "almost" a good advice - if there is a bacterial infection, keeping it dry helps. So soakings are fine, but damaged shell areas should be kept dry.

Maybe this vet has more background on aquatic turtles than on tortoises.

I think, Yvonne gave a good advise above - your tortoise is active, eating and exploring, you have done some improvements in care and plan for more. For a while you can relax and watch if there are any improvements.

thank you this makes me feel better 😭

 

[Yingg]

I am really sorry for your experience too😔I’ve felt very lost myself at times when it comes to their health and sourcing the right vet, so I completely sympathise with you here!
You’re doing your very best in trying to get her to improve and making any changes you need to❤️
I think like Alex said, let’s sit back for a bit and see if these treatments start to improve things and go from there. Some more investigation might be needed for some of the issues she’s having like the potential edema, but again one step at a time.

Just know with us, you’re never alone here, they’ll always be someone along to support you🥰

thank you everyone 😭

 

[EppsDynasty]

It sounds like a very frustrating experience you have had to go through. I'm sorry this happened but you are the wiser from it. Hang around here and learn, learn, learn ...you will soon be the most educated in the room. You should be commended though for taking this on and sticking with it, most would give up. Your in the right place.

 

[Yingg]

I am really sorry for your experience too😔I’ve felt very lost myself at times when it comes to their health and sourcing the right vet, so I completely sympathise with you here!
You’re doing your very best in trying to get her to improve and making any changes you need to❤️
I think like Alex said, let’s sit back for a bit and see if these treatments start to improve things and go from there. Some more investigation might be needed for some of the issues she’s having like the potential edema, but again one step at a time.

Just know with us, you’re never alone here, they’ll always be someone along to support you🥰

i thought on it for a while, but what you, alex, and yvonne are saying is that even if she did have liver failure, it's not acute because she's had it a while? and my best bet is to upgrade her enclosure and feed her better (which im working on doing)? sorry i'm really lost 😞

my other choice is to switch vets, though my mom won't let me do it because she thinks it's ridiculous to spend that much money on a tortoise. similarly, she thinks if my tortoise is sick then "it's her fate to die". it's really difficult to convince her otherwise. if i did manage to convince her, it would be probably 1000 USD or more for the treatment, which isn't money i can easily get because of schooling and because i have to feed myself. will my baby be alright for another year until i graduate? once i graduate and can drive myself then i'll have the freedom to spend all my money on her treatment.

she's had this "fatty" skin (puffy) for a while (years) so that's why i wasn't so concerned at first until vet #1 said it could be edema, not fat. please tell me more of your thoughts, i'm really having mixed feelings right now 😭

 

[Yingg]

i thought on it for a while, but what you, alex, and yvonne are saying is that even if she did have liver failure, it's not acute because she's had it a while? and my best bet is to upgrade her enclosure and feed her better (which im working on doing)? sorry i'm really lost 😞

my other choice is to switch vets, though my mom won't let me do it because she thinks it's ridiculous to spend that much money on a tortoise. similarly, she thinks if my tortoise is sick then "it's her fate to die". it's really difficult to convince her otherwise. if i did manage to convince her, it would be probably 1000 USD or more for the treatment, which isn't money i can easily get because of schooling and because i have to feed myself. will my baby be alright for another year until i graduate? once i graduate and can drive myself then i'll have the freedom to spend all my money on her treatment.

she's had this "fatty" skin (puffy) for a while (years) so that's why i wasn't so concerned at first until vet #1 said it could be edema, not fat. please tell me more of your thoughts, i'm really having mixed feelings right now 😭

i'm also definitely getting threads mixed up haha.... to update anyone who reads this, my tortoise has that puffy skin around her neck and legs, which i thought was fat because she had it for a while. vet #1 said it could be edema/liver failure. since vet 1 was very far, i switched to vet 2 for convenience. vet 2 says it's just fat, though i'm not sure if i should trust her.

some people in this thread said i could have just been scammed. (though if i'm being honest, saying my tortoise has liver failure and then making me pay for blood work and medication is a much better scam than making me pay extra for some sedation. she also told me not to by the chlorhexidine from the clinic and to just get it from amazon, since it's less expensive.)

how does this relate to her dry shell? i believe it's a chain of issues since i didn't care for her properly when i was younger. i've learned and i'm working to improve my husbandry thanks to this forum. i believe her dry shell could be caused by the same thing the possible liver failure could be caused by- poor husbandry. her enclosure is small, and i didn't let her walk out much. that is why i think her just being fat is actually quite plausible. her dry shell could be from... just a multitude of issues in husbandry. liver failure could be from improper diet. i don't know.

i'm just scared. she's unhealthy and it's my fault because of neglect over the years, and now i genuinely don't know what to do. convince my mom to let me go to a better vet (unlikely this will work) or wait a year until i graduate and can drive myself there? these options require money that's a bit hard to obtain since i pay for books and food by myself. i could just... fix my husbandry and then pray she gets better, that's the other option. basically, either get immediate treatment (but i'll have to overwork myself and get through my mom which is unlikely) or wait a year til i graduate (but i don't know if i can bring her to college dorms) or just fix my husbandry and hope all goes well? sorry, i'm just feeling really guilty.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

i thought on it for a while, but what you, alex, and yvonne are saying is that even if she did have liver failure, it's not acute because she's had it a while? and my best bet is to upgrade her enclosure and feed her better (which im working on doing)? sorry i'm really lost 😞

my other choice is to switch vets, though my mom won't let me do it because she thinks it's ridiculous to spend that much money on a tortoise. similarly, she thinks if my tortoise is sick then "it's her fate to die". it's really difficult to convince her otherwise. if i did manage to convince her, it would be probably 1000 USD or more for the treatment, which isn't money i can easily get because of schooling and because i have to feed myself. will my baby be alright for another year until i graduate? once i graduate and can drive myself then i'll have the freedom to spend all my money on her treatment.

she's had this "fatty" skin (puffy) for a while (years) so that's why i wasn't so concerned at first until vet #1 said it could be edema, not fat. please tell me more of your thoughts, i'm really having mixed feelings right now 😭

If and that’s a big if, it is liver failure, I don’t think there’s any telling how severe it is without further tests like bloods etc, I definitely think your best bet for right now is to continue with the plans to upgrade the enclosure and getting her diet better, improving the husbandry could very well improve her physical state, time shall tell❤️

Try not to worry on the vet side of things for the time being, unless anything of dire concern comes up symptom wise, for right now, as long as she’s active with a good appetite, just continue to closely monitor her progress and continue with the other treatment suggestions from other members if you feel it’s helping her shell💕

You poor thing I can feel your guilt through your responses😔💔please believe when I tell you, you’re being a wonderful owner, have mistakes been made? Yes, but are you making steps to correct them now you’ve noticed? Also yes, and that is what makes you a caring owner. There’s so many people out there who notice something isn’t right with their animal, yet don’t care to do anything about it or get to the bottom of the cause. That isn’t you, you’re clearly doing the best you can for the circumstances you’re in!

Continue your focus on improving her lifestyle and set up, I think that could very well go a long way in improving her physical state❤️if over time things still aren’t quite right with her, members can help advise on where to go from there, stay strong, you’ve got this!❤️

 

[Yingg]

If and that’s a big if, it is liver failure, I don’t think there’s any telling how severe it is without further tests like bloods etc, I definitely think your best bet for right now is to continue with the plans to upgrade the enclosure and getting her diet better, improving the husbandry could very well improve her physical state, time shall tell❤️

Try not to worry on the vet side of things for the time being, unless anything of dire concern comes up symptom wise, for right now, as long as she’s active with a good appetite, just continue to closely monitor her progress and continue with the other treatment suggestions from other members if you feel it’s helping her shell💕

You poor thing I can feel your guilt through your responses😔💔please believe when I tell you, you’re being a wonderful owner, have mistakes been made? Yes, but are you making steps to correct them now you’ve noticed? Also yes, and that is what makes you a caring owner. There’s so many people out there who notice something isn’t right with their animal, yet don’t care to do anything about it or get to the bottom of the cause. That isn’t you, you’re clearly doing the best you can for the circumstances you’re in!

Continue your focus on improving her lifestyle and set up, I think that could very well go a long way in improving her physical state❤️if over time things still aren’t quite right with her, members can help advise on where to go from there, stay strong, you’ve got this!❤️

thank you so much for your kindness 😭 it really means a lot. you're right, she's "stable" right now. she eats (even if her appetite comes and goes) and she's still really strong (kicks me a lot). i'm slightly worried about her appetite but she's sort of always been like this, randomly eats a lot then randomly stops eating for a few days. maybe that's how your tortoises are too ^^; i'll monitor her closely and update this thread or my other one. hopefully they don't get closed. thank you so much, again.