florida breeder rule/law

xXtortoiseloverXx

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
318
Location (City and/or State)
south Florida
hi guys i am thinking maybe one day i will sell my star tortoise ,i am living in Florida,so do i need class 3 wildlife license? and what about the 4'' rule? just read this thing http://www.reptiday.com/florida.html sounds like vendor needs license ,but what about private selling in forum? any info will be appreciated . thanks
 

tortadise

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
9,560
Location (City and/or State)
Tropical South Texas
It doesn't appear that elegans are listed or regulated in Florida.
http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/

4" law is purely for commercial purposes. Technically the sale is considered commercial. Most sellers have a clause that states they are "only for sale for educational, scientific purposes only" it's kinda loophole but it's kinda not. Is there any reason to not grow them up beyond 4" before selling them?
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,939
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
It doesn't appear that elegans are listed or regulated in Florida.
http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/

4" law is purely for commercial purposes. Technically the sale is considered commercial. Most sellers have a clause that states they are "only for sale for educational, scientific purposes only" it's kinda loophole but it's kinda not. Is there any reason to not grow them up beyond 4" before selling them?
As a Floridian, I can sadly report that the 4" thing is viewed as a joke...at best!
 

tortadise

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
9,560
Location (City and/or State)
Tropical South Texas
As a Floridian, I can sadly report that the 4" thing is viewed as a joke...at best!
Yeah pretty much. It's a USDA regulation however which makes it federal and all states must abide by it. I'd say personal individuals selling should keep it in mind but not worry about too much about it.
 

xXtortoiseloverXx

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
318
Location (City and/or State)
south Florida
It doesn't appear that elegans are listed or regulated in Florida.
http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/

4" law is purely for commercial purposes. Technically the sale is considered commercial. Most sellers have a clause that states they are "only for sale for educational, scientific purposes only" it's kinda loophole but it's kinda not. Is there any reason to not grow them up beyond 4" before selling them?
thanks for the reply,so Indian star tortoise is not on that list means i don't need license to sell right ? there is no problem for me to grow them to 4 inch before selling ,but i am just curious about that 4'' rule. thanks again.
 

tortadise

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
9,560
Location (City and/or State)
Tropical South Texas
thanks for the reply,so Indian star tortoise is not on that list means i don't need license to sell right ? there is no problem for me to grow them to 4 inch before selling ,but i am just curious about that 4'' rule. thanks again.
That's correct. They're not regulated by Florida or the United States within the country. Importing them in is a different ball game. Your good to go. In the future though make sure to always check with the actual parks and wildlife website or local office. Sometimes other sites display and or consolidate the info incorrectly.
 

xXtortoiseloverXx

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
318
Location (City and/or State)
south Florida
That's correct. They're not regulated by Florida or the United States within the country. Importing them in is a different ball game. Your good to go. In the future though make sure to always check with the actual parks and wildlife website or local office. Sometimes other sites display and or consolidate the info incorrectly.
ok ,that is good to know , thanks again :)
 

jaizei

Unknown Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
9,054
Location (City and/or State)
Earth
hi guys i am thinking maybe one day i will sell my star tortoise ,i am living in Florida,so do i need class 3 wildlife license? and what about the 4'' rule? just read this thing http://www.reptiday.com/florida.html sounds like vendor needs license ,but what about private selling in forum? any info will be appreciated . thanks

Would you just be selling the one tortoise?


It doesn't appear that elegans are listed or regulated in Florida.
http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/

4" law is purely for commercial purposes. Technically the sale is considered commercial. Most sellers have a clause that states they are "only for sale for educational, scientific purposes only" it's kinda loophole but it's kinda not. Is there any reason to not grow them up beyond 4" before selling them?


From what I saw, it didn't spell it out directly. It says that no permit is required for personal possession; That's noted under the 'wildlife not requiring permit'. Under the class III section, it says that class III is everything that isn't class I or II, or specifically noted as not requiring a permit. Since the 'wildlife not requiring a permit' section says that it applies to personal possession, even the species listed there would fall under class III for exhibition or sale. The application for class III has an option for sale of nonvenomous reptiles, which makes me think it might be the way I outline.
 

tortadise

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
9,560
Location (City and/or State)
Tropical South Texas
Would you just be selling the one tortoise?





From what I saw, it didn't spell it out directly. It says that no permit is required for personal possession; That's noted under the 'wildlife not requiring permit'. Under the class III section, it says that class III is everything that isn't class I or II, or specifically noted as not requiring a permit. Since the 'wildlife not requiring a permit' section says that it applies to personal possession, even the species listed there would fall under class III for exhibition or sale. The application for class III has an option for sale of nonvenomous reptiles, which makes me think it might be the way I outline.
Isn't Florida great? Lol. It gets quite confusing indeed. We could ask some florida members. @coastal @Gerards maybe they can chime in. Or anyone else. But I'm pretty certain it's allowable.
 

Turtlepete

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
972
Location (City and/or State)
South Florida
I sell offspring every year in Florida. All you need to do is apply for the Class 3 license. Quite a simple process. I also sold them for years on end, openly on local classifieds without ever having any issues. Eventually I decided to be smart and get the proper permits, but you can get away without out.

When in doubt…do no look at the Florida F&W website. Contact them directly with any legal questions.

Just an FYI, as Jaezi mentioned, technically everything not in the small list of animals not requiring a permit DOES require a class 3 personal possession permit. Quite simple permit to obtain that just requires filling out a form and sending in some money (its the government, right?)
 

tortadise

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
9,560
Location (City and/or State)
Tropical South Texas
I sell offspring every year in Florida. All you need to do is apply for the Class 3 license. Quite a simple process. I also sold them for years on end, openly on local classifieds without ever having any issues. Eventually I decided to be smart and get the proper permits, but you can get away without out.

When in doubt…do no look at the Florida F&W website. Contact them directly with any legal questions.

Just an FYI, as Jaezi mentioned, technically everything not in the small list of animals not requiring a permit DOES require a class 3 personal possession permit. Quite simple permit to obtain that just requires filling out a form and sending in some money (its the government, right?)
Man. I was little to no help at all in this thread. So even for redfoots or leopards you must obtain a class 3 possesion permit too?
 

turtlemanfla88

Active Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
443
turtlepete is right if you sell 1 tortoise you need your class 3 permit and if you display you also need a permit and this permit covers you for both. Now if you just keep and breed just turtles you can get an aquaculture license that covers you and falls under the department of Agriculture also, covers amphibians and some crocodilians that is $100 while class 3 is $50. I wish they would move tortoises under the department of Agriculture.
Kelly you are correct even for redfoots and leopards. That means when little **** or Jane sulcata gets to big and they sell it FWC can bust them or mom or Dad without class 3.
 

Turtlepete

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
972
Location (City and/or State)
South Florida
Man. I was little to no help at all in this thread. So even for redfoots or leopards you must obtain a class 3 possesion permit too?

"Technically"

There is basically a list of maybe 20-30 animals that you need no permitting for whatsoever. Stuff like small birds, hamsters, guinea pigs, ferrets; your most common household pets. Everything not on that list, or on class 1 or class 2, you technically are supposed to have a permit for.

Nobody is ever going to give you trouble over it though. I've seen macrochelys and FL boxies for sale openly on local craigslist ads dozens of times. Heck, they didn't even care when I contacted them directly about a gopher tortoise in my care. F&W around here generally seems more concerned with hunting violations. And busting kayakers for enjoying themselves. (Don't get me started)
 

mike taylor

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
13,461
You need to check with Parks and Wildlife and the county within jurisdiction in which you live in .
 

xXtortoiseloverXx

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
318
Location (City and/or State)
south Florida
I sell offspring every year in Florida. All you need to do is apply for the Class 3 license. Quite a simple process. I also sold them for years on end, openly on local classifieds without ever having any issues. Eventually I decided to be smart and get the proper permits, but you can get away without out.

When in doubt…do no look at the Florida F&W website. Contact them directly with any legal questions.

Just an FYI, as Jaezi mentioned, technically everything not in the small list of animals not requiring a permit DOES require a class 3 personal possession permit. Quite simple permit to obtain that just requires filling out a form and sending in some money (its the government, right?)
i think i am gonna get a class 3 license when i start selling my indian star tortoises,just wanna be 100% legal.thanks for the reply
 

Tidgy's Dad

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
48,236
Location (City and/or State)
Fes, Morocco
"Technically"

There is basically a list of maybe 20-30 animals that you need no permitting for whatsoever. Stuff like small birds, hamsters, guinea pigs, ferrets; your most common household pets. Everything not on that list, or on class 1 or class 2, you technically are supposed to have a permit for.

Nobody is ever going to give you trouble over it though. I've seen macrochelys and FL boxies for sale openly on local craigslist ads dozens of times. Heck, they didn't even care when I contacted them directly about a gopher tortoise in my care. F&W around here generally seems more concerned with hunting violations. And busting kayakers for enjoying themselves. (Don't get me started)
So if you're kayaking with your tortoise, you may have a problem ?
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
What about selling to my friends , so I need license for that too?
Just adding my two cents as I hate all the permit stuff required to do work on ones home, which btw, I barely ever get. But, if you are selling to a friend and not advertising any tortoises for sale, then they would have no idea you were selling anything. So, don't bother with a permit. Just what I would do.
 

xXtortoiseloverXx

Active Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
318
Location (City and/or State)
south Florida
Just adding my two cents as I hate all the permit stuff required to do work on ones home, which btw, I barely ever get. But, if you are selling to a friend and not advertising any tortoises for sale, then they would have no idea you were selling anything. So, don't bother with a permit. Just what I would do.

Haha
 
Top