Franklins quarantine tank!

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Also just want to add, a sad, uncomfortable, cold, in pain, or stressed tortoise, is a tortoise who likely won’t want to touch food. The fact Franklin is continuing to eat some of his, is fantastic! I hope that can offer you some comforthe’s going to be ok

 

[Tom]

I had him on cocoa fiber and coco chips (ik whenever I put in the new stuff it’ll be a packed layer of cocoa fiber and then bark chips on top.)

Franklin has round worm and I was Instructed to completely clean his tank and start giving him panacur once a week. So I took all his substrate out, cleaned everything down with dish soap (this was the only thing I knew to clean with At the time. The vet gave me no instruction on HOW to clean) and then put towels in there instead of having to change substrate everyday, I just change the towels. That’s what was recommended on here. This way Franklin hopefully doesn’t get infested with worms WHILE he’s trying to get rid of them. I’m trying to limit his exposure rate ig. I was just afraid the soaking tubs had worm eggs if I didn’t clean them out everyday after his soak as he goes potty in them. And yea I removed the paper towels as he was eating them. He’s just on regular bath towels which he seems to be doing fine on now.

I was informed a while back he needs a big enclosure with an enclosed lid and showed some pictures as guides on this forum. Most looked made of wood and what I based my design off for his new enclosure. I haven’t finished it yet, tho it’s almost complete. We plan to seal it and I have a big thick pond liner for the bottom! I just needed something bigger for Franklin that could hold humidity for him now since he’s been stuck in a glass tank for longer than expected. Once he’s moved in I will immediately make plans for an even bigger and better enclosure. This endeavor has been so infuriating and stressful I don’t wanna wait to start the next enclosure b4 it’s too late :/

And I was under the assumption he needed pellets EVERYDAY to help with fiber so that’s what I was doing :/ oops. I’ll cut it back to every other day or less. I do use that for him to take his meds rn tho!

I soak him everyday for an hour rn. He still seems to get decent sized urates every now and then (this could be bc he doesn’t have the humidity he needs rn).

Since I have u I’ll ask about this as well: today Franklin freaked me out really bad. Our ac died so we have no air or heating rn (and prob for a while :/) I’ve been rushing home everyday to make sure he wasn’t baking as it was getting 90 in his tank overall. (It’s been high 80’s most of last week and this week) then all the sudden yesterday it goes into low 70’s. As suggested by someone on here, I can just leave my dimmer on 75 (that’s on my ceramic) and then that plus the other lights will heat his tank up (as everyday I was boosting his dimmer on the ceramic to make sure the rest of the tank stayed warm.) tried that today. I have a camera to keep an eye on Franklin while I’m at work. ALL DAY he didn’t move from the corner he slept in last night. I rushed home, expecting the worse. Once I prod him, he gets up. I had to get him new food since he didn’t touch his salad and it all wilted. He’s FINALLY eating. It said his basking was at 90 (where he was sitting high 80’s) and 75 for cool (where the probe for the dimmer is) I bumped his dimmer to 80 when I got home to warm up the rest of the tank a little. Idk if he was there all day bc he was cold? Altho his tank has been this cold all day b4 and he’s never done this. Hes normally up at moving by 7. And yesterday and today he’s been… slower. What could cause that? I’m really concerned .

I’m wondering if he has an RI? But like he’s had no mucus show at all, no mouth breathing, tongue is still pink, appetite is fine, and activity levels fine (up until yesterday). He whistles when he breathes sometimes but not all the time. I’ve noticed it’s only when I mess with him so I assumed it’s from stress and this has been something he’s been doing for like 3 months now? Almost as long as I’ve had him. THE VET HAS LOOKED HIM OVER FOR THIS ISSUE. He didn’t seem concerned about it so I assumed it meant Franklin does NOT have an RI. I saw something on this forum that said if u suspect the beginning of an RI to boost the temp, bc high heat helps with that? Well this week like I said it was all 90 and he acted the same p much. Rn he’s blowing air out his nose a good bit, like huffing?? I’ve never heard that b4. And I was concerned his eyes were getting puffy but I honestly can’t tell.

Or maybe it’s not an RI and he’s just sleepy from the meds ? Ik they can do that? He only got the first dose sat (his next one is tomorrow). Idk what could have caused this.

Every turn I make it seems I’m doing something wrong. Even when I try to fix it I’m wrong. I get told diff things back and forth. Ugh. I just want to do good by my baby!

Most tortoise carry worms. It's often a commensal or even symbiotic relationship. Certain worms are worse than others, and they really only need treatment when the numbers are excessive. What percentage of "reptile" vets understand this? I don't know, but in my experience with lots of them, they don't seem to get it.

Wormer is a toxic poison. The trick is to use enough to kill the worms, but not kill the host. Still, it often makes them sick, kind of like chemo therapy for people with cancer. Kill the cancer, but not so much poison that you kill the cancer patient. Given the first paragraph, and this one, you can see why I'd recommend not treating for worms unless it's a severe case and the tortoise's health is potentially being compromised. Most vets seem to be overzealous about this and its a way for them to charge money to a client. This is probably the reason why your tortoise is not feeling well and staying put all day.

I would to suggest Mazuri to add fiber. I would suggest fiber to add fiber. Soaked horse hay pellets, or soaked ZooMed grassland pellets are a good way to go. Finding the right weeds and leaves near you is a better way to go.

He's getting the urates form the Mazuri. It's relatively high in protein. Start feeding weeds and leaves, and the urates will subside.

Daytime temps can be low 80s and 100 under the basking lamp, but temperate species should cool at night. 70-ish is fine, but low 60s is fine too. He should not need night heat if your house is over 60 degrees.

If the greens are wilting that much , it's a sign that it's too hot and dry in there. Those greens drying out are an indicator of what is happening to the inside of your tortoise.

I don't know who is recommending a wooden enclosure or why, but as I said, wood rots. There is not safe or effective way to seal it, and plastic liners always allow moisture in some way or other, and then the moisture is trapped between the plastic and the wood. Best to not use wood. If you do use it, be on the look out for rot and be ready to make a new enclosure.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Most tortoise carry worms. It's often a commensal or even symbiotic relationship. Certain worms are worse than others, and they really only need treatment when the numbers are excessive. What percentage of "reptile" vets understand this? I don't know, but in my experience with lots of them, they don't seem to get it.

Wormer is a toxic poison. The trick is to use enough to kill the worms, but not kill the host. Still, it often makes them sick, kind of like chemo therapy for people with cancer. Kill the cancer, but not so much poison that you kill the cancer patient. Given the first paragraph, and this one, you can see why I'd recommend not treating for worms unless it's a severe case and the tortoise's health is potentially being compromised. Most vets seem to be overzealous about this and its a way for them to charge money to a client. This is probably the reason why your tortoise is not feeling well and staying put all day.

I would to suggest Mazuri to add fiber. I would suggest fiber to add fiber. Soaked horse hay pellets, or soaked ZooMed grassland pellets are a good way to go. Finding the right weeds and leaves near you is a better way to go.

He's getting the urates form the Mazuri. It's relatively high in protein. Start feeding weeds and leaves, and the urates will subside.

Daytime temps can be low 80s and 100 under the basking lamp, but temperate species should cool at night. 70-ish is fine, but low 60s is fine too. He should not need night heat if your house is over 60 degrees.

If the greens are wilting that much , it's a sign that it's too hot and dry in there. Those greens drying out are an indicator of what is happening to the inside of your tortoise.

I don't know who is recommending a wooden enclosure or why, but as I said, wood rots. There is not safe or effective way to seal it, and plastic liners always allow moisture in some way or other, and then the moisture is trapped between the plastic and the wood. Best to not use wood. If you do use it, be on the look out for rot and be ready to make a new enclosure.

He passed a large roundworm and had a fecal test done.
I haven’t weighed in on the treatment/medication side of things because I don’t have experience of a tortoise with that issue.
But everyone’s advice sounded great so far, and certainly expanded more than the vet did.

I didn’t read anything about greens drying up? Or did I miss something?

It’s not that I try to recommend wooden enclosure’s specifically with some of my threads, more so I understand it’s a feasible material option for a lot of people out there, who are trying to build bigger spaces for their tortoises indoors, so I talk extensively about ways to eliminate moisture problems when using wood to build a tortoise table.
There’s countless people, experienced keepers on the forum included, that have wooden enclosures they’ve managed to keep protected for many years. But yes agree to keep on the look out for any moisture issues

 

[Liljae9263]

He passed a large roundworm and had a fecal test done.
I haven’t weighed in on the treatment/medication side of things because I don’t have experience of a tortoise with that issue.
But everyone’s advice sounded great so far, and certainly expanded more than the vet did.

I didn’t read anything about greens drying up? Or did I miss something?

It’s not that I try to recommend wooden enclosure’s specifically with some of my threads, more so I understand it’s a feasible material option for a lot of people out there, who are trying to build bigger spaces for their tortoises indoors, so I talk extensively about ways to eliminate moisture problems when using wood to build a tortoise table.
There’s countless people, experienced keepers on the forum included, that have wooden enclosures they’ve managed to keep protected for many years. But yes agree to keep on the look out for any moisture issues

Yea the vet did tell me that it’s common for them to have worms (and I think he said almost natural) but that Franklin had ALOT of them in his sample and that’s prob y he was struggling to go potty so hard. So he gave me the panacur. And yea he passed a worm that was basically the size of him! It really freaked me out! So that’s y I think the meds r good for him now ??

And in my first reply to tom I had said I changed his salad that Franklin didn’t eat all day when I got home bc the greens were wilted and I wanted him to have fresh greens. I put them in there at 5 am and changed them at 3 pm. So they were sitting there untouched for like 10 hrs. His temps r 90 for basking/80-75 for cool so I think he’s where he’s supposed to be. Since he’s 1. In a tank and 2. On towels his humidity went down. I think it’s in the 50’s rn (with the substrate it used to be 60%. That’s y I was trying to rush to get the enclosed table set up asap so he could have the right humidity. Let’s just say that has been like pulling teeth. We’re so close to being done tho!) I was assured by someone (I think on this thread) that lower humidity for a month to give Franklin his meds and ensure he gets better is ok. And I still give him his hour long soaks which they said r good. I spray him every now and then too to be sure. I have a dish of water in there as well, I give him extra veggies with higher water content and spray those down as well. I try to keep him hydrated in there while he’s healing to the best of my ability <3.

(He just got his second dose of the meds. He was actually moved and under his basking light this morning when I checked on him so already a better sign. He’s been on the towels for about a week now and was fine when I first made the change. He only started having issues yesterday and a little the day b4. I don’t have work today so I will keep an eye on him!)

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Yea the vet did tell me that it’s common for them to have worms (and I think he said almost natural) but that Franklin had ALOT of them in his sample and that’s prob y he was struggling to go potty so hard. So he gave me the panacur. And yea he passed a worm that was basically the size of him! It really freaked me out! So that’s y I think the meds r good for him now ??

And in my first reply to tom I had said I changed his salad that Franklin didn’t eat all day when I got home bc the greens were wilted and I wanted him to have fresh greens. I put them in there at 5 am and changed them at 3 pm. So they were sitting there untouched for like 10 hrs. His temps r 90 for basking/80-75 for cool so I think he’s where he’s supposed to be. Since he’s 1. In a tank and 2. On towels his humidity went down. I think it’s in the 50’s rn (with the substrate it used to be 60%. That’s y I was trying to rush to get the enclosed table set up asap so he could have the right humidity. Let’s just say that has been like pulling teeth. We’re so close to being done tho!) I was assured by someone (I think on this thread) that lower humidity for a month to give Franklin his meds and ensure he gets better is ok. And I still give him his hour long soaks which they said r good. I spray him every now and then too to be sure. I have a dish of water in there as well, I give him extra veggies with higher water content and spray those down as well. I try to keep him hydrated in there while he’s healing to the best of my ability <3.

(He just got his second dose of the meds. He was actually moved and under his basking light this morning when I checked on him so already a better sign. He’s been on the towels for about a week now and was fine when I first made the change. He only started having issues yesterday and a little the day b4. I don’t have work today so I will keep an eye on him!)

That all sounds great to me! I’m guessing Tom didn’t know if he’d had a sample done or not, a lot of times vets do unfortunately treat them without knowing for sure, that’s not the case for you

 

[Liljae9263]

He passed a large roundworm and had a fecal test done.
I haven’t weighed in on the treatment/medication side of things because I don’t have experience of a tortoise with that issue.
But everyone’s advice sounded great so far, and certainly expanded more than the vet did.

I didn’t read anything about greens drying up? Or did I miss something?

It’s not that I try to recommend wooden enclosure’s specifically with some of my threads, more so I understand it’s a feasible material option for a lot of people out there, who are trying to build bigger spaces for their tortoises indoors, so I talk extensively about ways to eliminate moisture problems when using wood to build a tortoise table.
There’s countless people, experienced keepers on the forum included, that have wooden enclosures they’ve managed to keep protected for many years. But yes agree to keep on the look out for any moisture issues

Hello! So what wood sealer would work best for the enclosure and be safe for Franklin?? We’re getting close to that point and I wanna make sure I get the right thing .

Also for future notice what should I make the next enclosure out of if not wood that would be big enough?? I’ve seen people use horse troughs, garden beds, and bookshelves. Something like that?? How do u get around that fitting if u have a specific area space to put them in?

Thxxx !

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi! The best is to line the bottom and the walls with a pond liner, PVC tablecloth or shower curtain.

For building enclosures foam PVC (also called "expanded PVC") is a good choice. It's moisture resistant, weighs less than plywood or melamine board and relatively easy to work with.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello! So what wood sealer would work best for the enclosure and be safe for Franklin?? We’re getting close to that point and I wanna make sure I get the right thing .

Also for future notice what should I make the next enclosure out of if not wood that would be big enough?? I’ve seen people use horse troughs, garden beds, and bookshelves. Something like that?? How do u get around that fitting if u have a specific area space to put them in?

Thxxx !

There are different options to directly paint on to the wood, I haven’t used any myself but know they’re safe, things like non toxic wood sealants, non toxic boat paints, non-toxic polyurethane, anything voc free, you’d need to make sure anything you do use is completely cured and off gassed. None of these will make the wood last forever, but with lining there’s no reason it can’t last long term.

PVC boards like Alex suggested is a good recommendation for future material, there’s also Polypropylene boards. You could look into a garden bed option, obviously with ones like that you can’t really adjust the sizing like you could if you make it yourself

 

[Liljae9263]

I just wanted to share some Franklin photos while he’s in quarantine! He seems to be handling it well!

He’s learned he can “burrow” under the towels. He’s found a new routine where after his soak he’ll “dig” under the first towel and “burrow” underneath and under his log. So when I check on him later it’s just a mound of towel under the log haha!
(We make sure every morning he can still get out so all is good! And I check him throughout the day with my camera and make sure he’s doing good )

I really love having my camera! It’s so nice to peek on him while I’m at work and catch glimpses of his day. My favorite is catching him eating or taking a big cat nap haha. I’ve also noticed he seems to sense when I’m peeking in on him. I’ll check the cam and he’ll slowly turn and stare down at it like HE KNOWS. (Theres absolutely no change when I do check on it, so there is no way for him to no. I’ve checked thoroughly. It just ends up being a coincidence. Or maybe Franklin has a sixth sense. Either way it gets a laugh out of me Everytime)

I’ve been very vigilant on keeping his tank clean and soaking him everyday and giving his meds. Next week I’ll set up his new vet appointment to make sure he’s getting the worm population in his tummy down! His potty times haven’t really changed (I thought maybe his poop/pee would look diff once he was feeling better, but really it all looks the same. I haven’t found another big worm get passed again tho! He is still straining to pee tho! I really don’t no y! Today he passed A LOT of white urates ! I’ll bring it back up with the vet and keep looking into it!)

Other than that he is doing good! He’s eating normally, takes good naps, and overall seems content. I’m a little jealous of his leisure haha. I can’t wait till he’s better and can get moved into his new enclosure! I’m sure he’ll love it ! <3

(I added the pic of his lil feet bc I love them. Who would have thought tortoise feet would be so cute? )

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I just wanted to share some Franklin photos while he’s in quarantine! He seems to be handling it well!

He’s learned he can “burrow” under the towels. He’s found a new routine where after his soak he’ll “dig” under the first towel and “burrow” underneath and under his log. So when I check on him later it’s just a mound of towel under the log haha!
(We make sure every morning he can still get out so all is good! And I check him throughout the day with my camera and make sure he’s doing good )

I really love having my camera! It’s so nice to peek on him while I’m at work and catch glimpses of his day. My favorite is catching him eating or taking a big cat nap haha. I’ve also noticed he seems to sense when I’m peeking in on him. I’ll check the cam and he’ll slowly turn and stare down at it like HE KNOWS. (Theres absolutely no change when I do check on it, so there is no way for him to no. I’ve checked thoroughly. It just ends up being a coincidence. Or maybe Franklin has a sixth sense. Either way it gets a laugh out of me Everytime)

I’ve been very vigilant on keeping his tank clean and soaking him everyday and giving his meds. Next week I’ll set up his new vet appointment to make sure he’s getting the worm population in his tummy down! His potty times haven’t really changed (I thought maybe his poop/pee would look diff once he was feeling better, but really it all looks the same. I haven’t found another big worm get passed again tho! He is still straining to pee tho! I really don’t no y! Today he passed A LOT of white urates ! I’ll bring it back up with the vet and keep looking into it!)

Other than that he is doing good! He’s eating normally, takes good naps, and overall seems content. I’m a little jealous of his leisure haha. I can’t wait till he’s better and can get moved into his new enclosure! I’m sure he’ll love it ! <3

(I added the pic of his lil feet bc I love them. Who would have thought tortoise feet would be so cute? )

View attachment 396064View attachment 396065View attachment 396066

Glad to know he is doing well and settled down! Such an adorable guy!
I hope test results will come up clean.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I just wanted to share some Franklin photos while he’s in quarantine! He seems to be handling it well!

He’s learned he can “burrow” under the towels. He’s found a new routine where after his soak he’ll “dig” under the first towel and “burrow” underneath and under his log. So when I check on him later it’s just a mound of towel under the log haha!
(We make sure every morning he can still get out so all is good! And I check him throughout the day with my camera and make sure he’s doing good )

I really love having my camera! It’s so nice to peek on him while I’m at work and catch glimpses of his day. My favorite is catching him eating or taking a big cat nap haha. I’ve also noticed he seems to sense when I’m peeking in on him. I’ll check the cam and he’ll slowly turn and stare down at it like HE KNOWS. (Theres absolutely no change when I do check on it, so there is no way for him to no. I’ve checked thoroughly. It just ends up being a coincidence. Or maybe Franklin has a sixth sense. Either way it gets a laugh out of me Everytime)

I’ve been very vigilant on keeping his tank clean and soaking him everyday and giving his meds. Next week I’ll set up his new vet appointment to make sure he’s getting the worm population in his tummy down! His potty times haven’t really changed (I thought maybe his poop/pee would look diff once he was feeling better, but really it all looks the same. I haven’t found another big worm get passed again tho! He is still straining to pee tho! I really don’t no y! Today he passed A LOT of white urates ! I’ll bring it back up with the vet and keep looking into it!)

Other than that he is doing good! He’s eating normally, takes good naps, and overall seems content. I’m a little jealous of his leisure haha. I can’t wait till he’s better and can get moved into his new enclosure! I’m sure he’ll love it ! <3

(I added the pic of his lil feet bc I love them. Who would have thought tortoise feet would be so cute? )

View attachment 396064View attachment 396065View attachment 396066

Oh Franklin so adorableI sure hope the next visit goes well