Franklins vet visit!

[Liljae9263]

Alrighty! So here’s the update!
I have been soaking Franklin for an hour everyday since yall suggested it. First day he got a lot out, second day less, today barely anything.

Even on the drive to the vet he didn’t go potty (it’s a 30 min drive on the interstate and normally he goes potty then) so now I’m worried.

Some people warned me about untrustworthy vets and while I agree, I do trust my vet for the most part. He’s v kind, has taken care of Franklin most his life (even before I got him) and he always explains in detail so it sounds like he knows what he’s talking about.

He said Franklin is gaining good weight. He’s nice and healthy fat. He also said his shell looked gorgeous . I had a concern about his skin on his legs (they’re a grayish color), the vet said it looked like he rubbed his scales off on something. He said it was fine as long as it doesn’t get red and inflamed. I wonder if that’s bc he burrows everyday? Does the dirt rub his scales off like that? (He’s on coco fiber and cococoir. It’s not packed tightly right now. When he moves to his new enclosure I’m doing coco fiber packed tight and bark chips on top of that)

Down to the actual issue: I took Franklin in because he was having issues going potty. He got something out everyday, but he strained, some days worse than others. Mostly it’s an issue peeing as he strains hard for that, his wee wee comes out Everytime, and it’s been v white and powdery (not a good sign). This all started after he ate a whole cuttlebone without my knowledge.

I explained this to the vet and he said Franklin has already strained twice with nothing coming out while the vet was holding him. He assured me my hour long soaks I’m doing r good and to keep that up, that it’s a good sign that he’s still eating and he was v active and feisty today at the vet (another good sign) he said we could do X-rays today, but I opted to do some medicine first to see if that would help (as the X-rays were more expensive. Thought it better to try to clear it up first b4 digging a hole in my pocket) the vet kind of agreed. He gave me Ablon (dewormer), Enulose/lactulose (stool softener), and panacur (another dewormer). He explained in detail what they all did but I don’t remember all the big words . Basically the 2 dewormers r for common bugs that tortoises end up with and the stool softener of course to help loosen his tummy up and help him pass whatever it is. I was assured they’re all safe to give together and won’t hurt him even if he’s bug free )

I’m not sure how to give it to Franklin as I just tried to feed it on a piece of endive and he actually GAGGED after tasting it so . I’ve asked my folks to bring home some strawberries to see if that’ll help trick him into eating it. (I try to avoid fruits bc sugar but the nurse did tell me that might be the only way for him to take it so as long as I keep the portions small it hopefully should be fine). Idk if Franklin likes strawberries. I hope he does! Ik he hates bananas! Idk what else to try if not those! And if he won’t eat it himself I have to somehow pry his mouth open and give it to him myself and I REALLY don’t want to have to do that. I’m afraid I’ll hurt him or vice versa!

If anyone has any tips lmk plz!

I have a check up in 2 weeks to see if Franklin is doing better.

In the meantime I’m gonna try my best to give him his meds and soak him an hour a day.

We r steadily working on his new enclosure so as soon as that’s done I will move him over bc im sure that will also help (if I can get his humidity and temps right )

I’m trying to look into getting him some better food as well. Life has really kicked me down this month so it’s been really hard trying to give Franklin as much attention as he needs to get this all set up from him like he needs. I feel like such a bad tortoise parent for not being able to get this done now . I hope he will understand that I’m trying my best!

If anyone has anything to share, tips, stories, thoughts, concerns, plz lmk!!! Yall r so helpful and I always look forward to hearing what yall say! I learn so much from yall!

 

[Yvonne G]

It sounds to me like urates too hard and too large to pass. Since urates are not in the bowel or colon, a stool softener isn't going to help. I don't know for sure, but I THINK the only way to get rid of large, hard urates is surgery????

 

[Tim Carlisle]

It sounds to me like urates too hard and too large to pass. Since urates are not in the bowel or colon, a stool softener isn't going to help. I don't know for sure, but I THINK the only way to get rid of large, hard urates is surgery????

Do they have anything like lithotripsy for tortoises? I figured if anyone would know it would be you.

 

[Liljae9263]

It sounds to me like urates too hard and too large to pass. Since urates are not in the bowel or colon, a stool softener isn't going to help. I don't know for sure, but I THINK the only way to get rid of large, hard urates is surgery????

I saw someone else have a similar issue on here about hard urates but some people who responded to them said it wasn’t a Calcium issue but I didn’t see this being an issue till after he ate a cuttle bone. And when I tried to give him calcium he had a lot of white pee that day. So does calcium cause this? Most people say it’s too much protein (and lack of hydration. I’m hoping my hour long soaks will help with that) I feed him Mazuri junior pellets. Should I cut back on his intake on that? Is that giving him too much protein and causing this issue? He gets like half and half the pellets and regular greens. I give him lettuce, endive; and raddichio.

 

[zovick]

I saw someone else have a similar issue on here about hard urates but some people who responded to them said it wasn’t a Calcium issue but I didn’t see this being an issue till after he ate a cuttle bone. And when I tried to give him calcium he had a lot of white pee that day. So does calcium cause this? Most people say it’s too much protein (and lack of hydration. I’m hoping my hour long soaks will help with that) I feed him Mazuri junior pellets. Should I cut back on his intake on that? Is that giving him too much protein and causing this issue? He gets like half and half the pellets and regular greens. I give him lettuce, endive; and raddichio.

I hate to say it, but an X-ray would have been the best diagnostic tool, especially when some type of blockage is suspected. Then the blockage could be ID'd as either urate or stool and treated accordingly. Right now, you really don't know exactly what you are trying to treat or why.

 

[Liljae9263]

I hate to say it, but an X-ray would have been the best diagnostic tool, especially when some type of blockage is suspected. Then the blockage could be ID'd as either urate or stool and treated accordingly. Right now, you really don't know exactly what you are trying to treat or why.

Oh…I feel like such a bad tortoise parent (
The vet made it seem like I was making a good choice. It feels like everything I do is wrong even when I think I’m doing good Idk what to do now. Should I keep giving him the meds I already got? Or should I try to rush him in for a xray? (Would the vet refund me for the meds if it turns out he doesn’t need them?) He’s still v active and eats happily. From what I can tell he still gets stuff out as well, he just strains. I’m def gonna keep doing hour long soaks.

 

[COmtnLady]

Your vet was sounding like a good one until you got to the part about the de-worming meds.
If you aren't seeing worms, and tests weren't done to see if there's an problem with parasites... then its not necessary to de-worm. That pads the bill more than helps the tort.

When you go back for the x-rays,
A. be sure to get copies of the films and post them here. Get feedback from here before you ok the Vet doing anything. If it is a urate blockage, surgery may be the only way to correct it as Yvonne said. With humans they can break up some kidney stones with ultrasound and similar devices, see if they can do that (don't agree to it, just see if its an option).
B. DO NOT allow the Vet to give ANY vitamin or calcium injections (not necessary, does more harm than good)
C. Along those same lines of logic - Giving worm meds when the tortoise is having an excretory problem seems like piling more stress on the part of your tort's system that is already having a hard time, and seriously counter-intuitive.

Don't worry a lot about him not going poop when he emptied so much earlier in the week. It takes a while for their digestive systems to process, you already emptied him out so there isn't anything left to come out.
If he doesn't poop after several days, then be concerned - but keep soaking him now!

 

[zovick]

Oh…I feel like such a bad tortoise parent (
The vet made it seem like I was making a good choice. It feels like everything I do is wrong even when I think I’m doing good Idk what to do now. Should I keep giving him the meds I already got? Or should I try to rush him in for a xray? (Would the vet refund me for the meds if it turns out he doesn’t need them?) He’s still v active and eats happily. From what I can tell he still gets stuff out as well, he just strains. I’m def gonna keep doing hour long soaks.

How far are you from Athens, GA? You could go to the UGA Vet School there and get treatment from a really good exotics department.

The fact that no stool sample was checked for parasites (at least you didn't say it was), and yet not one, but TWO medications were prescribed for intestinal parasites is mind-boggling to me. I have never heard of Albon being used in tortoises. It is normally used to treat coccidia in dogs and sometimes cats.

I would not worm (Panacur) or treat for protozoa (Albon) if no evidence of those parasites was found in your tortoise. That is just total guesswork.

Your vet is most likely not going to refund you for unused medications, but you could ask.

 

[Liljae9263]

How far are you from Athens, GA? You could go to the UGA Vet School there and get treatment from a really good exotics department.

The fact that no stool sample was checked for parasites (at least you didn't say it was), and yet not one, but TWO medications were prescribed for intestinal parasites is mind-boggling to me. I have never heard of Albon being used in tortoises. It is normally used to treat coccidia in dogs and sometimes cats.

I would not worm (Panacur) or treat for protozoa (Albon) if no evidence of those parasites was found in your tortoise. That is just total guesswork.

Your vet is most likely not going to refund you for unused medications, but you could ask.

It’s about 2-3 hrs away so idk if that’s an option. I try not to take him too far away as not to stress him (and I’m not the best driver ) but if it needs to be done I’ll do it for my little guy.

He had a parasite test about 2-3 months back and came back clean. The vet said to do those bc he COULD have gotten them from then to now and it wouldn’t hurt him to give him the meds. (I just put them on his food and Franklin eats them)

And ur right, they would not refund. I’m trying to see about X-rays now. I’m wondering should I stop with the meds? I’ll have to look into what I can do for him. I’m so lost and I don’t wanna stress him out more than I have too (

 

[Liljae9263]

Your vet was sounding like a good one until you got to the part about the de-worming meds.
If you aren't seeing worms, and tests weren't done to see if there's an problem with parasites... then its not necessary to de-worm. That pads the bill more than helps the tort.

When you go back for the x-rays,
A. be sure to get copies of the films and post them here. Get feedback from here before you ok the Vet doing anything. If it is a urate blockage, surgery may be the only way to correct it as Yvonne said. With humans they can break up some kidney stones with ultrasound and similar devices, see if they can do that (don't agree to it, just see if its an option).
B. DO NOT allow the Vet to give ANY vitamin or calcium injections (not necessary, does more harm than good)
C. Along those same lines of logic - Giving worm meds when the tortoise is having an excretory problem seems like piling more stress on the part of your tort's system that is already having a hard time, and seriously counter-intuitive.

Don't worry a lot about him not going poop when he emptied so much earlier in the week. It takes a while for their digestive systems to process, you already emptied him out so there isn't anything left to come out.
If he doesn't poop after several days, then be concerned - but keep soaking him now!

I just finished his hour long soak today and he got a little white ball/pebble out! He didn’t seem to even strain that hard too! He pooped a little too b4 that and b4 I even got him in the soak he did pee in his tank, it was white and watery. So he’s getting something out! This is a good sign right? From what I looked up this could be a stone? Or similar to what it looks like ? (I added a pic of it. There is a little dirt in the water from Franklin haha.)
I’m glad his soaks seem to be working and he seems to really enjoy them . I was so stressed all day about him so it’s just good to see him getting stuff out and still being his happy self. Im trying not to let myself spiral over this bc maybe it’s not as severe as im making it out in my head? He doesn’t seem uncomfy in his everyday life and he’s still able to pee and poop. Also since doing his hour long soaks he seems to strain less. I’ll keep on it and watch him carefully!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Oh…I feel like such a bad tortoise parent (
The vet made it seem like I was making a good choice. It feels like everything I do is wrong even when I think I’m doing good Idk what to do now. Should I keep giving him the meds I already got? Or should I try to rush him in for a xray? (Would the vet refund me for the meds if it turns out he doesn’t need them?) He’s still v active and eats happily. From what I can tell he still gets stuff out as well, he just strains. I’m def gonna keep doing hour long soaks.

No no no you’re not a bad tortoise parent! Please don’t feel like thatyou were doing everything a professional was telling you to do under the impression it was the best course of treatment! You’re clearly a very caring owner

I just finished his hour long soak today and he got a little white ball/pebble out! He didn’t seem to even strain that hard too! He pooped a little too b4 that and b4 I even got him in the soak he did pee in his tank, it was white and watery. So he’s getting something out! This is a good sign right? From what I looked up this could be a stone? Or similar to what it looks like ? (I added a pic of it. There is a little dirt in the water from Franklin haha.)
I’m glad his soaks seem to be working and he seems to really enjoy them . I was so stressed all day about him so it’s just good to see him getting stuff out and still being his happy self. Im trying not to let myself spiral over this bc maybe it’s not as severe as im making it out in my head? He doesn’t seem uncomfy in his everyday life and he’s still able to pee and poop. Also since doing his hour long soaks he seems to strain less. I’ll keep on it and watch him carefully! View attachment 395269

this is a fantastic sign!! I pray this was what’s causing the blockage! BUT if it isn’t, the xray should be able to show any more stones in there, everything about him from behaviour to appetite tells us he’s not in any major discomfortI’d say at worst he’s probably feeling a bit uncomfortable/maybe a bit of pain whilst straining, but hopefully he’s going to continue passing these stones if there are more! Definitely continue with the hour soaks

 

[zovick]

I just finished his hour long soak today and he got a little white ball/pebble out! He didn’t seem to even strain that hard too! He pooped a little too b4 that and b4 I even got him in the soak he did pee in his tank, it was white and watery. So he’s getting something out! This is a good sign right? From what I looked up this could be a stone? Or similar to what it looks like ? (I added a pic of it. There is a little dirt in the water from Franklin haha.)
I’m glad his soaks seem to be working and he seems to really enjoy them . I was so stressed all day about him so it’s just good to see him getting stuff out and still being his happy self. Im trying not to let myself spiral over this bc maybe it’s not as severe as im making it out in my head? He doesn’t seem uncomfy in his everyday life and he’s still able to pee and poop. Also since doing his hour long soaks he seems to strain less. I’ll keep on it and watch him carefully! View attachment 395269

Was the white object hard and crumbly or was it more soft and squishy like toothpaste?

You want the urates to be soft like a toothpaste consistency, not hard and granular. Everything sounds as though it is working properly in the gut if the tortoise is able to poop OK and pass softer urates. I would just keep doing what you are doing.

Forget about giving the worming medications. In the absence of diagnosed parasites in the stool, giving them puts an unnecessary strain on the tortoise. Worming meds are poisons and the dose is enough to kill the parasites, but not the tortoise. I always say, why give the animal a poison if it isn't really needed?