Garden State Tortoise

[Turtlegirl22]

Hey guys! I recently placed an order with Chris, from Garden State Tortoise for a Western Hermann for 2024. He said I would be looking at Late Spring. Did anyone else do an order recently? & How long on average was the wait? Is 6 months the usual? Thanks!!

 

[Yvonne G]

It might have to do with what he has on hand and what eggs are due to hatch and when. Breeders with babies to sell don't have babies in suspended animation just waiting for a buyer. My tortoise partner, for example, keeps newly hatched babies a couple months to be sure the babies are eating well and are healthy, but then they are sold. Once the babies sell the breeder has to wait until more eggs hatch. It's not mass production.

 

[Turtlegirl22]

It might have to do with what he has on hand and what eggs are due to hatch and when. Breeders with babies to sell don't have babies in suspended animation just waiting for a buyer. My tortoise partner, for example, keeps newly hatched babies a couple months to be sure the babies are eating well and are healthy, but then they are sold. Once the babies sell the breeder has to wait until more eggs hatch. It's not mass production.

Great! Thank you!!

It might have to do with what he has on hand and what eggs are due to hatch and when. Breeders with babies to sell don't have babies in suspended animation just waiting for a buyer. My tortoise partner, for example, keeps newly hatched babies a couple months to be sure the babies are eating well and are healthy, but then they are sold. Once the babies sell the breeder has to wait until more eggs hatch. It's not mass production.

 

[wellington]

Couple members that purchased from him and was told a certain time they would be shipped had to wait all summer. I'm not even sure if both got them or not. If I can find the thread I will post a link here.
I trust he won't rip you off, just don't trust he will get it too you in a speedy time. But to order at this time of year, a wait till spring is fairly normal.

 

[wellington]

Thread 'Expected Delivery from Garden State Tortoise' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/expected-delivery-from-garden-state-tortoise.206758/

 

[jaizei]

Hey guys! I recently placed an order with Chris, from Garden State Tortoise for a Western Hermann for 2024. He said I would be looking at Late Spring. Did anyone else do an order recently? & How long on average was the wait? Is 6 months the usual? Thanks!!

Your location is listed as New Jersey, is that accurate? I thought there was something about no in-state sales in New Jersey. You might want to verify that he'll actually be able to sell to you.
----------
I went looking:

NJ TURTLE LAWS | GardenStateTortoise

www.gardenstatetortoise.com

Not my state so if its still that way or has changed, idk. but better to find out now instead of waiting 6 months to be disappointed.

 

[Turtlegirl22]

Yes, no worries. My aunt technically “bought” it and it will be delivered to her home in Pennsylvania. So it’ll be considered like a gift, if that makes sense. Thank you for checking!

 

[Q&hermes]

Hey guys! I recently placed an order with Chris, from Garden State Tortoise for a Western Hermann for 2024. He said I would be looking at Late Spring. Did anyone else do an order recently? & How long on average was the wait? Is 6 months the usual? Thanks!!

Yea I ordered a Dalmatian Hermann, I wanted western but the list was full based on clutches for the year and I wouldn’t get one for a long time, I waited 2 months. Mine had just hatched. He’s sells hatchlings so he waits for them to actually hatch then 8-11 weeks of age to make sure perfectly healthy and what not. Once they get first growth ring he then he ships them over night. I have had mine Hermes since august of 23 he’s going great. Comparison photos

 

[zovick]

Yea I ordered a Dalmatian Hermann, I wanted western but the list was full based on clutches for the year and I wouldn’t get one for a long time, I waited 2 months. Mine had just hatched. He’s sells hatchlings so he waits for them to actually hatch then 8-11 weeks of age to make sure perfectly healthy and what not. Once they get first growth ring he then he ships them over night. I have had mine Hermes since august of 23 he’s going great. Comparison photos

Your tortoise looks good. Congratulations on your success.

 

[HermanniChris]

Yea I ordered a Dalmatian Hermann, I wanted western but the list was full based on clutches for the year and I wouldn’t get one for a long time, I waited 2 months. Mine had just hatched. He’s sells hatchlings so he waits for them to actually hatch then 8-11 weeks of age to make sure perfectly healthy and what not. Once they get first growth ring he then he ships them over night. I have had mine Hermes since august of 23 he’s going great. Comparison photos

Nicely done! The tortoise looks fantastic.

 

[Ink]

Cute tortoise.

 

[TLK]

Unfortunately, I was not as fortunate as others during my experience with Chris Leone at Garden State Tortoise and Hermanni Haven. When I initially contacted Chris about purchasing a tortoise in April of 2023 he was very prompt about answering my questions and following through with the purchase. I was supposed to get a female Dalmatian Hermann’s and a female Eastern Hermann’s which I paid $525 for on April 21, 2023. He told me the tortoises are “They’re typically ready by late July.” On July 31, 2023 I hadn’t heard anything from Chris so I sent him an email asking when they might be able to ship the tortoises. I got a response stating he had to go away unexpectedly for work and to check back the next weekend when he was going to be back. I sent another email on August 7, 2023 asking for an update which I was told “We’re looking at starting to ship next week. We’ll let you know when we have an exact date.” Another week goes by and I hadn’t heard anything so I emailed him again on August 14, 2023 asking if he had an estimate because I work full time and I needed to make sure myself or someone else was going to be home so they weren’t sitting outside in the August heat and they could get proper care after their long flight. On August 15, 2023 he told me “We will be shipping Thursday for Friday arrival.” Understandably I arranged for someone to be at my house when they arrived. Now comes Thursday August 17, 2023 when I receive an email stating they couldn’t be shipped until Monday because FedEx could not guarantee live arrival. I was understandable about the situation because I only want the best for my animals and I didn’t want the risk either. He apologized for the inconvenience and thanked me for my patience. I had to rearrange for someone to be there when they arrived. The tortoises shipped on Monday and arrived on Tuesday. They were both healthy and lively. They had a nice soak and ate right away.

But here is the real problem. The Eastern Hermann was always the bigger and more aggressive tortoise. Around May 2024 the Eastern Hermann's started becoming more aggressive with the Dalmatian Hermann by biting its feet, trying to flip it over, and head butting despite being in a very large habitat. Now we are in August 2024 and I went to pick my Eastern Hermann up to put it in the soaking bin and it was very obviously a MALE (he was 100% showing his male parts). I understand that temperature sexing is not 100% accurate however when I first stated talking to Chris about getting two FEMALE tortoises he stated “Temp sexed females are no problem.” Unfortunately, I ended up having to rehome the Eastern Hermann tortoise because he was constantly biting and mounting the Dalmatian Hermann. When I first considered purchasing a tortoise he highly recommended co-housing and stated “I always always opt for co-housing.” I was very wary of housing two tortoises together and he stated “Yes, you can keep two together regardless of sex.” I felt that I was doing the best thing by purchasing two tortoises so they could have a companion but my Dalmatian seems much happier with being constant harassed. For anyone considering purchasing a tortoise make sure you do more research than just what Chris has on his website and through email. Also make sure you definitely consider all of your purchasing options before choosing Chris Leone at Garden State Tortoise and Hermanni Haven.

I DO NOT recommend Chris and I will never purchase from him again.

 

[Tom]

Unfortunately, I was not as fortunate as others during my experience with Chris Leone at Garden State Tortoise and Hermanni Haven. When I initially contacted Chris about purchasing a tortoise in April of 2023 he was very prompt about answering my questions and following through with the purchase. I was supposed to get a female Dalmatian Hermann’s and a female Eastern Hermann’s which I paid $525 for on April 21, 2023. He told me the tortoises are “They’re typically ready by late July.” On July 31, 2023 I hadn’t heard anything from Chris so I sent him an email asking when they might be able to ship the tortoises. I got a response stating he had to go away unexpectedly for work and to check back the next weekend when he was going to be back. I sent another email on August 7, 2023 asking for an update which I was told “We’re looking at starting to ship next week. We’ll let you know when we have an exact date.” Another week goes by and I hadn’t heard anything so I emailed him again on August 14, 2023 asking if he had an estimate because I work full time and I needed to make sure myself or someone else was going to be home so they weren’t sitting outside in the August heat and they could get proper care after their long flight. On August 15, 2023 he told me “We will be shipping Thursday for Friday arrival.” Understandably I arranged for someone to be at my house when they arrived. Now comes Thursday August 17, 2023 when I receive an email stating they couldn’t be shipped until Monday because FedEx could not guarantee live arrival. I was understandable about the situation because I only want the best for my animals and I didn’t want the risk either. He apologized for the inconvenience and thanked me for my patience. I had to rearrange for someone to be there when they arrived. The tortoises shipped on Monday and arrived on Tuesday. They were both healthy and lively. They had a nice soak and ate right away.

But here is the real problem. The Eastern Hermann was always the bigger and more aggressive tortoise. Around May 2024 the Eastern Hermann's started becoming more aggressive with the Dalmatian Hermann by biting its feet, trying to flip it over, and head butting despite being in a very large habitat. Now we are in August 2024 and I went to pick my Eastern Hermann up to put it in the soaking bin and it was very obviously a MALE (he was 100% showing his male parts). I understand that temperature sexing is not 100% accurate however when I first stated talking to Chris about getting two FEMALE tortoises he stated “Temp sexed females are no problem.” Unfortunately, I ended up having to rehome the Eastern Hermann tortoise because he was constantly biting and mounting the Dalmatian Hermann. When I first considered purchasing a tortoise he highly recommended co-housing and stated “I always always opt for co-housing.” I was very wary of housing two tortoises together and he stated “Yes, you can keep two together regardless of sex.” I felt that I was doing the best thing by purchasing two tortoises so they could have a companion but my Dalmatian seems much happier with being constant harassed. For anyone considering purchasing a tortoise make sure you do more research than just what Chris has on his website and through email. Also make sure you definitely consider all of your purchasing options before choosing Chris Leone at Garden State Tortoise and Hermanni Haven.

I DO NOT recommend Chris and I will never purchase from him again.

There are literally thousands of posts on this forum saying to NEVER house tortoises in pairs. We also say not to mix species. Granted these are the same species, but these two subspecies should never be housed together. Easterns are larger and more boisterous than Dalmatians or Westerns. I'm sorry you had to learn this the hard way. I hope your tortoise has a long happy life now after months of suffering.

 

[TLK]

There are literally thousands of posts on this forum saying to NEVER house tortoises in pairs. We also say not to mix species. Granted these are the same species, but these two subspecies should never be housed together. Easterns are larger and more boisterous than Dalmatians or Westerns. I'm sorry you had to learn this the hard way. I hope your tortoise has a long happy life now after months of suffering.

She definitely seems happier and I learned the hard way. I posted this, hoping others wouldn't listen to his misinformation. I did hours of research before purchasing, but I asked Chris, and he told me, "I always opt for co-housing." and "Yes, you can keep two together regardless of sex." I listened to the breeder in this situation when I shouldn't have. It was my mistake, and I was too trustworthy.

 

[Tom]

She definitely seems happier and I learned the hard way. I posted this, hoping others wouldn't listen to his misinformation. I did hours of research before purchasing, but I asked Chris, and he told me, "I always opt for co-housing." and "Yes, you can keep two together regardless of sex." I listened to the breeder in this situation when I shouldn't have. It was my mistake, and I was too trustworthy.

You are not alone. Many people go through this. Like you, almost everyone has the best of intentions and tries really really hard to do everything perfectly. There is just so much misinformation and conflicting information out there. How does anyone know who to listen to? I grapple with that question all the time. I find myself struggling with this whenever I want to start with any new reptile species. I want tortoise YT videos and they are almost all TERRIBLE. I don't mean just little bad, I mean they are really really bad. Chris made a video and there were really only a couple of things I did not agree with, but the rest of the info was pretty darn good and well presented. As I watch YT videos on tokay geckos, banana pectinata, yellow tail cribos, rhino iguanas, emerald tree skinks, and so many others, I wonder if there is some person out there that really knows these species and is cringing at all the bad info the way I do when I watch the majority of tortoise care or dog training videos.

I know you are not happy with Chris, and I don't agree with everything he says either, but over all he is really a good guy and doing great work with all the different subspecies and species of Testudo. No two people will ever agree on everything all the time, but Chris is really one of the better ones. I don't know why he would tell you what he told you, but he is a forum member here and dozens of his customers are forum members too, and I have not seen any complaints like this about him in all the years he's been doing business. I'm not calling you dishonest in any way, I'm just saying that Chris has a great track record compared to some people in the tortoise business, and I'm surprised he would tell you that a pair of a different subspecies and a different size is okay. I wonder if he was out of town, or possibly having a family emergency, and someone else was manning the keyboard and taking care of the business for him temporarily? It really doesn't add up.

In any case, you do have a great tortoise from an otherwise great breeder, and everything is okay now. I hope your decision to post this helps other people avoid this mistake, and I thank you for posting it.

 

[Fluffy]

You are not alone. Many people go through this. Like you, almost everyone has the best of intentions and tries really really hard to do everything perfectly. There is just so much misinformation and conflicting information out there. How does anyone know who to listen to? I grapple with that question all the time. I find myself struggling with this whenever I want to start with any new reptile species. I want tortoise YT videos and they are almost all TERRIBLE. I don't mean just little bad, I mean they are really really bad. Chris made a video and there were really only a couple of things I did not agree with, but the rest of the info was pretty darn good and well presented. As I watch YT videos on tokay geckos, banana pectinata, yellow tail cribos, rhino iguanas, emerald tree skinks, and so many others, I wonder if there is some person out there that really knows these species and is cringing at all the bad info the way I do when I watch the majority of tortoise care or dog training videos.

I know you are not happy with Chris, and I don't agree with everything he says either, but over all he is really a good guy and doing great work with all the different subspecies and species of Testudo. No two people will ever agree on everything all the time, but Chris is really one of the better ones. I don't know why he would tell you what he told you, but he is a forum member here and dozens of his customers are forum members too, and I have not seen any complaints like this about him in all the years he's been doing business. I'm not calling you dishonest in any way, I'm just saying that Chris has a great track record compared to some people in the tortoise business, and I'm surprised he would tell you that a pair of a different subspecies and a different size is okay. I wonder if he was out of town, or possibly having a family emergency, and someone else was manning the keyboard and taking care of the business for him temporarily? It really doesn't add up.

In any case, you do have a great tortoise from an otherwise great breeder, and everything is okay now. I hope your decision to post this helps other people avoid this mistake, and I thank you for posting it.

Also he always advocates in his videos to not mix the Testudo subspecies to keep them pure. Not sure why he would recommend this to TLK.