Gritty urates or cuttle bone being passed? Or what?

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Today while cleaning the enclousure of my Russian tortoise, I found this. I wonder whether it is just cuttle bone being passed, or whether it is something serious. It kinda looks like chewed up bubble gum.

My tortoise has also had some weight loss. He used to weigh around 490 to 500 grams. I weigh him every Friday after soak, before feeding but I decided to weigh him today (same routine, different day) since I am getting concerned bout him.

About a month ago he got addicted to dandelion greens, when grazing, he would only pick them. Now I have been trying to ween him of the dandelions. He still does eat some, but not as much as he used to.:

• week 22: 486 grams
• week 23: 459 grams
• week 24: 466 grams
• week 25: 450 grams

A photo of the possible urates attached below:

 

[wellington]

I would play it safe and assume it's urates and get him soaking daily for 30 minutes at least and get some humidity in with him. Adults, 50% a humid hide will work. Hatchlings to around 3 years 80% humidity and a closed chamber.
Add some romaine or head lettuce to his diet, to help hydrate.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I will start offering him lettuce, he will surely eat it. I will also pump up the soaks from 3 times a week to daily (30 minute soaks). His humidity has been about 40-50% (open top enclosure, pouring water to coco coir).

I was wondering whether it could be bladder stones, since he wasn't kept the best prior to him coming to me. He was kept on sand and dry bark, no soaks and a cat bowl for water. At first I soaked him once a week (February 18th to April 26th) and then started soaking 3 times a week.

This thread has some more backstory and his initial set up when I got him in February: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/a-new-russian-tortoise-keeper.213441/

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

What do you think about the weight loss? He went from 490 grams to 450 grams, or from 17.3 ounces to 16 ounces.

 

[wellington]

What do you think about the weight loss? He went from 490 grams to 450 grams, or from 17.3 ounces to 16 ounces.

It may be what he passed that is affecting his weight if he wasn't eating as much
Do the soaks and lettuce, getting him hydrated and see how it goes.
He may have more to pass and if that was all, he may pick back up in eating.
Keep a closer eye on him until he starts to gain.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

It may be what he passed that is affecting his weight if he wasn't eating as much
Do the soaks and lettuce, getting him hydrated and see how it goes.
He may have more to pass and if that was all, he may pick back up in eating.
Keep a closer eye on him until he starts to gain.

Yeah, I sure will. Is there some limit where I should get more worried about his weight loss or otherwise consider going to the vet?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

@Yvonne G @Tom

Yeah, I sure will. Is there some limit where I should get more worried about his weight loss or otherwise consider going to the vet?

 

[wellington]

Yeah, I sure will. Is there some limit where I should get more worried about his weight loss or otherwise consider going to the vet?

If it were me, I would get him hydrated and in a week check his weight. Hopefully it's the same or gained some. If he still lost weight but is eating, then I would wait one more week and if he still lost, then I would have him checked for parasites. If no parasites found, then you may want to do an X-ray to be sure there isn't a blockage.
I would do the daily soaks and adding the lettuce until he starts to gain. Then you can cut the soaks back and I would cut the lettuce back to once or twice a week.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Thanks! I will update you in a week.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I have kept up the daily soaks and got the ice berg lettuce yesterday with my groceries, I will start giving it to him from now on. He has been enjoying himself and drinking for about the first five minutes of the soaks. After that he starts his usual escape attempts and continues to scramble the rest of the 30 minute soak.

Since Thursday the 20th Edward hasn't passed any normal urates. Today I found a new bladder stone in his enclosure, a bit smaller than the previous. Also, when he was eating clover this morning, some clear bubbles came from his nose once as he breathed out with a mouth full of food.

I guess I am most worried about whether he will pass all of it on his own, and if pieces are left, does this become a chronic problem? This article has played a huge role in crating these worries: https://reptilesmagazine.com/tortoise-bladder-stones/

What do you think? @Tom @Yvonne G @wellington

I will update you again on Friday as I weigh him, unless something else comes up.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I am still debating on whether or not contact the vet. What should I look for in the treatment and diagnosis of bladder stones? Is there something I should absolutely demand or refuse?

There is this one vet in my city who is recommended for reptiles and also does surgery, but I don't know about her tortoise knowledge specifically. I could get a x-ray in there for sure, but I don't know whether they will be able to read it or anything. Also, on their website they specify that they only do "soft tissue surgery". This probably means no surgery on tortoises?

I am still worried about whether he will pass all of it on his own, and if pieces are left, does this become a chronic problem?

@Tom @Yvonne G @wellington

 

[wellington]

I would keep doing what you are doing and let him pass any more on his own. So much can go wrong with a vet.
If you see any straining while pottying, use of a back leg seems hampered then let us know and we can advise if it's time to take a chance on a vet. I think it's safer for now if you keep up the heavy hydration and let it happen in its own.

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

Agree w Wellington.. lot of hydrating foods lettuce, cactus, cucumber, maybe even a lil watermelon. And id layoff any mazuri until hes back to normal. Good luck!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I have been using the agrobs pellets, do you think that I should lay them off too? Unfortunately the reptile vet near me only does "soft tissue surgery"so I am constantly researching my options in case something goes wrong. He poops normally, though it has been a bit soft from the lettuce.

Since he isn't passing urates normally, I am not sure whether he is still peeing normally and it is just absorbed by the substrate or whether he is struggling with that.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Since he isn't passing urates normally, I am not sure whether he is still peeing normally and it is just absorbed by the substrate or whether he is struggling with that.

Happily I will take that back, he passed an urate today while soaking, close to toothpaste consistency. So maybe I don't have to be that worried.

 

[zovick]

Happily I will take that back, he passed an urate today while soaking, close to toothpaste consistency. So maybe I don't have to be that worried.

That is good news! Hope everything continues going well now.

 

[Megatron's Mom]

You can place a little mineral oil on his food. The mineral oil will do no harm. It will coat things inside and help things pass. Soaking will also help make sure everything is comes out and help prevent any further build up.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

What kind of mineral oil is recommended?

 

[Yvonne G]

What kind of mineral oil is recommended?

Mineral oil is mineral oil. Any brand is the same thing. It's also called white oil, liquid parafin, parafin oil, liquid petroleum. . . it's all the same thing.

 

[Megatron's Mom]

What kind of mineral oil is recommended?

I found mine in the baby section at Walmart. My husband also uses it on his wooden cutting board. It's just good stuff to have around.