Head Tremors and Calcium Supplements

[TortsandTurts]

So my dude had some head twitching today that the vet believes is from hypocalcemia. He does receive calcium supplement via powder on his greens, however, despite using several different brands, he doesn't seem conducive to eating any of them in any successful amount. It appears to be the powdered texture he doesn't like, as he will rub his face on them, and if he detects it, he eats around it. He refused to even sniff food that's been sprayed with the spray on option of calcium. (It's very strong smelling to me, so I suspect he can smell it coming from a mile away.) And after a GI obstruction almost requiring surgery from cuttle bone chunks building up, that is no longer an option. We pulled blood today and sent it out to the lab, but she suspects preliminary results will show hypocalcemia. In an effort to get calcium into him immediately she said to offer the flavored tums, which, surprise! he readily ate. The head twitching seems to have lessened over the last few hours. I'm of course concerned about the dyes and sugar in the tums. The vet says it will be fine because it's better than him not having calcium and having focal head tremors. The other option is to offer the liquid calcium gluconate, and hope we can get that into him on food. Suggestions? Thoughts? I just don't want this to progress into a more severe case of MBD. Doctor says he looks great otherwise.

 

[Tom]

Feeding the tortoise calcium does no good at all if the tortoise does not also have a good source of UV with which to manufacture vitamin D3 in their skin.

What is your UV source?

Usually when they refuse to eat calcium powder on a pile of food, its because too much is being used. A tiny little pinch mixed in with pre-wetted greens a couple of times a week is all that is needed.

 

[TortsandTurts]

He has a brand new UVA/UVB MVB thats replaced every six months religiously. My veterinarian is very thorough in proper husbandry techniques. I've even shown pictures of set up and pictures of all bulbs, etc.

I understand that's all that's needed, however, he won't touch them. Tried and tried again.

So in a situation where they will not eat it, which is the better option? He's about 4 1/2 years (he's a rescue) and weighed in today at 11 lbs, 12 ounces.

 

[Dizisdalife]

Some people crush the cuttle bone and add a little to the feed. If he took big bites of the cuttle bone before, he may not object to having some with his food. My hats off to you for taking in a rescue.

 

[Tom]

He has a brand new UVA/UVB MVB thats replaced every six months religiously. My veterinarian is very thorough in proper husbandry techniques. I've even shown pictures of set up and pictures of all bulbs, etc.

I understand that's all that's needed, however, he won't touch them. Tried and tried again.

So in a situation where they will not eat it, which is the better option? He's about 4 1/2 years (he's a rescue) and weighed in today at 11 lbs, 12 ounces.

Do you have a UV meter? Our own @deadheadvet said that after three months the current MVBs are not producing any UVB. Does your tortoise get outside in summer? Where are you? This might be part or all of your issue.

 

[MPRC]

You can try mixing the calcium with some wet food like babyfood, moist mazuri or something else squishy. When you dust his food with it you really shouldn't even be able to see the amount you add once it hits the wet greens.

I hope you get it sorted out!

 

[TortsandTurts]

What's part of my issue? I've had him just over a year at this point. He gets outside every day weather is appropriate. That's about eight months of the year here. He's had no issues until now. The current bulbs are labeled for 12-18 months. I do 6 to be sure. But I suspect that if I was going to have an issue related to the bulb, it would have been at the end of a bulbs life. I've replaced this one within the last 2 weeks.

I'm just really looking for thoughts on liquid calcium vs. tums. I've gone through husbandry a million times with his vet (it's reviewed with every visit - last time bulbs were changed, what brand we are using, etc.) and being a well educated Sulcata owner herself, I'm inclined to feel that if my husbandry were off, she'd call me on it. She's very passionate regarding educating. When I adopted him she spent an hour going over tweaking his set up, lights, hide, humidity, proper diet and avoiding commercial foods, etc. When done, she told me if I can't keep up with this care as he grows, that this is not the breed for me.

The only reason I'm questioning this is because she's not completely thrilled at the idea of long term use of tums, but says that it may be the best option. He's getting too big to fight. I'm tried to "starve him" until he eats powdered greens, I've tried dusting his favorites, I've tried smashed squash (which I know is less than ideal but I was desperate.) He proceeded to track baby food through his enclosure. I'm still desperate. If the tums is a valid option, it's better than him having tremors.

 

[TortsandTurts]

I hope you get it sorted out!

Thanks! He's a special boy and is very close to my husband. I'm hoping that this hasn't done any permanent damage. I just want what's going to work best for him, even if it's less than ideal. I was already jumping through hoops to get him to take it in foods he shouldn't have anyway. So maybe less of a fight in a less than ideal form is ok? I really just want him to feel better. This morning was scary.

 

[Big Charlie]

Good luck! I would think in the short term Tums is better than leaving him with a calcium deficiency, but I'm not a vet. It seems like the liquid calcium gluconate would have fewer additives and therefore would be even healthier. I don't understand how a normal tortoise would develop this condition. I've never given my tortoise calcium supplements. There is plenty of calcium in the grass and weeds he eats.

 

[deadheadvet]

Sounds like UV is not an issue. If they are out as much as you say, then no adjustments w/ bulbs is needed. Diet may be a consideration. I did not see any info regarding this tortoise's diet. I have not used calcium supplements for years, I believe in better nutrition and avoid using supplements. My other thought was whether the head movements were behavioral and not tremors.

 

[dmmj]

some tortoise Keepers use eggshells as an alternate source of calcium you can also feed calcium rich foods for example Cactus pads

 

[Yvonne G]

Here's a recipe that a moderator who isn't on the Forum anymore posted for us a long, long time ago. I tried it and my tortoises loved it. It calls for liquid calcium:

Calcium-rich tortoise cubes



4 Centrum vitamin tablets
6 oz Lifetime liquid Calcium Magnesium Citrate (I prefer the blueberry flavor, the smell is quite strong)
2 tbsp Sticky Tongue Farms Miner-All
1 10 oz can of kale
1 4 oz Butternut Squash babyfood
4 oz distilled water
2 packets Knox gelatin

Heat about 2 oz of the water to boiling, and add 4 tablets of Centrum to it to start dissolving. In a blender, combine the canned kale, Lifetime calcium, squash, and Miner-All. Blend it together until it is a liquid. Add the dissolved Centrum and mix it in thoroughly.

Pour the mixture out of the blender and into a bowl. Heat the remaining water to boiling and stir in the gelatin until it is dissolved. Pour into the blended mixture and stir THOROUGHLY.

Line a cookie sheet with plastic wrap. Make sure the wrap goes up the sides. Pour the gel mixture into the cookie sheet, and tap it on the counter to level and settle it. Place it into the refrigerator and allow it to set up.

You can cut it into strips and cubes once it is set. For storage, cut it into larger squares and layer with pieces of wax paper, wrap in plastic wrap or in a freezer bag and freeze. You can take out a small portion at a time and defrost.

 

[Yvonne G]

When chopping up veggies and greens for my hatchlings I grate some cucumber, just a tiny bit, and then add some powdered calcium directly onto the pile of cucumber. Then I mash it in with a fork until the powder is no longer dry. Stir and mash the powder all up into the greens so that you can't tell cucumber from greens. My hatchlings eat this readily.

 

[Tinsel21]

So my dude had some head twitching today that the vet believes is from hypocalcemia. He does receive calcium supplement via powder on his greens, however, despite using several different brands, he doesn't seem conducive to eating any of them in any successful amount. It appears to be the powdered texture he doesn't like, as he will rub his face on them, and if he detects it, he eats around it. He refused to even sniff food that's been sprayed with the spray on option of calcium. (It's very strong smelling to me, so I suspect he can smell it coming from a mile away.) And after a GI obstruction almost requiring surgery from cuttle bone chunks building up, that is no longer an option. We pulled blood today and sent it out to the lab, but she suspects preliminary results will show hypocalcemia. In an effort to get calcium into him immediately she said to offer the flavored tums, which, surprise! he readily ate. The head twitching seems to have lessened over the last few hours. I'm of course concerned about the dyes and sugar in the tums. The vet says it will be fine because it's better than him not having calcium and having focal head tremors. The other option is to offer the liquid calcium gluconate, and hope we can get that into him on food. Suggestions? Thoughts? I just don't want this to progress into a more severe case of MBD. Doctor says he looks great otherwise.

What is his normal daily diet like?

 

[Tinsel21]

What is his normal daily diet like?

You might try switching him to a primarily collards diet for a while, I know it's really high in calcium so that might help.

 

[TortsandTurts]

He gets a varied diet. Cactus a couple days a week, romaine lettuce every now and then (he came to us on romaine only), every few days he gets either Mazuri tortoise (not LS since I've read mixed reviews) or ZooMed Grassland, or Repashy Grassland (it's his absolute favorite). We are trying to introduce hay by putting it through the blender with some of his favorites. Some days he will eat it, some days he won't. I'm hesitant to put him in something so high calcium though, as sulcatas are particularly prone to calcium based bladder stones. It's a fine line. So far we have used the tums and they seem to be doing the trick. No more episodes, and he's seemed a tad brighter. I'm going to try a recipe for a gelatin based mixed up version of calcium bites I was given for my red bellied cooter and see if he will eat it. That will put him back on regular powdered version. Wish me luck!

 

[TortsandTurts]

Here's a recipe that a moderator who isn't on the Forum anymore posted for us a long, long time ago. I tried it and my tortoises loved it. It calls for liquid calcium:

Calcium-rich tortoise cubes



4 Centrum vitamin tablets
6 oz Lifetime liquid Calcium Magnesium Citrate (I prefer the blueberry flavor, the smell is quite strong)
2 tbsp Sticky Tongue Farms Miner-All
1 10 oz can of kale
1 4 oz Butternut Squash babyfood
4 oz distilled water
2 packets Knox gelatin

Heat about 2 oz of the water to boiling, and add 4 tablets of Centrum to it to start dissolving. In a blender, combine the canned kale, Lifetime calcium, squash, and Miner-All. Blend it together until it is a liquid. Add the dissolved Centrum and mix it in thoroughly.

Pour the mixture out of the blender and into a bowl. Heat the remaining water to boiling and stir in the gelatin until it is dissolved. Pour into the blended mixture and stir THOROUGHLY.

Line a cookie sheet with plastic wrap. Make sure the wrap goes up the sides. Pour the gel mixture into the cookie sheet, and tap it on the counter to level and settle it. Place it into the refrigerator and allow it to set up.

You can cut it into strips and cubes once it is set. For storage, cut it into larger squares and layer with pieces of wax paper, wrap in plastic wrap or in a freezer bag and freeze. You can take out a small portion at a time and defrost.

The centrum tablets are ok to use? They won't cause any harm with hypervitaminosis issues, especially combined with the miner-all?

 

[TortsandTurts]

2 tbsp Sticky Tongue Farms Miner-All
1 10 oz can of kale
.

Do we know if we use the Indoor or Outdoor version of Minerall?

Also, where does one buy canned kale?

 

[myk]

What's part of my issue? I've had him just over a year at this point. He gets outside every day weather is appropriate. That's about eight months of the year here. He's had no issues until now. The current bulbs are labeled for 12-18 months. I do 6 to be sure. But I suspect that if I was going to have an issue related to the bulb, it would have been at the end of a bulbs life. I've replaced this one within the last 2 weeks.

I'm just really looking for thoughts on liquid calcium vs. tums. I've gone through husbandry a million times with his vet (it's reviewed with every visit - last time bulbs were changed, what brand we are using, etc.) and being a well educated Sulcata owner herself, I'm inclined to feel that if my husbandry were off, she'd call me on it. She's very passionate regarding educating. When I adopted him she spent an hour going over tweaking his set up, lights, hide, humidity, proper diet and avoiding commercial foods, etc. When done, she told me if I can't keep up with this care as he grows, that this is not the breed for me.

The only reason I'm questioning this is because she's not completely thrilled at the idea of long term use of tums, but says that it may be the best option. He's getting too big to fight. I'm tried to "starve him" until he eats powdered greens, I've tried dusting his favorites, I've tried smashed squash (which I know is less than ideal but I was desperate.) He proceeded to track baby food through his enclosure. I'm still desperate. If the tums is a valid option, it's better than him having tremors.

Try taking your calcium supplements and grind them to powder, and just add tiny sprinkle to a large enough breakfast that it's disapated enough he can't smell or taste it

 

[TammyJ]

This thread is almost 8 years old...