Hello! New Leo mama :) Any tips, advice would be great!

[Jhwells46]

Hello fellow tortoise lovers! My name is Julia and this is my first time raising a tortoise. I've had many Box turtles and fell in love with tortoises and decided to get myself a baby Leo! Meet Tippy, my one year old Leopard Tortoise. Have had her around 3 months now and she is getting settled nicely into here new home. Got her on Craigslist from a girl who had mostly Red and Yellowfoots and wanted to focus on those more. Her temps are kept between 75-95, as she seems to prefer cooler temps. She gets a soak every morning in nice warm water and is fed following her soak. I keep her guessing on food, mixing in a variety of anything from cactus, aloe and wheatgrass to hay and dark greens. She had been diagnosed with pinworms and the Panacur medication made her sleepy and lost most of her appetite. Vet took her off the meds and she is doing much better, but is a bit of a bed head still. Her table is a 6ft long shoe rack that I turned into a tort table. Her hides are rice steamers that are perfect for maintaining humidity as you can soak them and the bamboo holds the moisture in for a long time. Her hot humid hide is out for cleaning at the moment. I have a mix of hay/aspen substrate on her cool end and a mix of coconut coir and sand on her hot/humid side with about 40% average humidity. She has her own little edible garden with chick and hens, wandering jew, he fescue, aloe, watercress and mallow. She weighs around 100g and seems to be growing well. How am I doin?? Pictures of her and habitat to follow, thanks everyone!

 

[wellington]

Hello,and Welcome. I would get that humidity up to 80% and the temps no lower the. 80 with the appropriate basking area. I would not use hay as substrate, too drying and also loose the sand, it can cause impactions. Your baby is pyramiding because of being raised too dry. You can reverse it, but you can get the new growth to grow in smoother. Please read Toms threads below in my post for raising leopards. The sulcata threads also apply to leopards.

 

[Jhwells46]

She was raised with close to 95% humidity before I got her and under instruction of two exotic vets I steadily lowered the humid as they advised me that 50% humidity is ideal for desert species. Thanks for the tips.

 

[wellington]

She does have a small amount of pyramiding already. As for the vets, I would not lower it just yet. If you don't do the whole enclosure, then bump up the humid Hide. Unfortunately, a lot of vets don't know the proper raising conditions of most tortoises. Tom, who wrote the threads below, has done his home work and experiments. Most people and info out there still think that leopards and sulcatas are suppose to be raised hot and dry, which is so wrong.

 

[katrvt]

Hello, your new baby is adorable! Speaking as a registered vet tech who is halfway to a board specialty in exotics(I have logged 5000 hours working exclusively with exotic pet medicine since becoming a licensed tech), even the best exotic vets don't always know every detail on husbandry, though we would like to think we do.. My own vet, who is the best herp vet in Oklahoma, did not concretely know about the need for higher humidity as younglings for these guys. He originally told me the same thing you were told. We are converted to the new way now. The knowledge of true needs for humidity in these guys is relatively new, as in within the last five to ten years. Everything we as veterinary professionals know can change in a short time, and in exotics, so much more so.

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And, I love her mini garden in the enclosure.

 

[bouaboua]

Hello and Welcome.

Nice looking Tortoise and the enclosure. Where you find the hide? Very resourceful................LOVE IT! ! ! !

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I will agree with to have humidity in and around 80%.

I have four little Leopard tortoise just like yours. I had them for almost a year now. They stay indoor for now and I kept the enclosure in 870~80% humidity all the time.

 

[mollydee]

You're Leo looks so similar to mine I had to do a double take ! Beautiful .
Welcome to tortoise parenthood , you'll love it [GREEN HEART]

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

That little one has some significant pyramiding, and its very slow growth is the only reason it is not worse. Pyramiding like that and slow growth like that are usually the result of dry conditions and infrequent soaks. It seems highly unlikely that it was raised in 95% humidity. Can you tell us how it was housed, in what sort of enclosure, and how that humidity was measured? I would like to learn from this case if it is really that far off from the norm.

A few tips for you, only because you asked:
1. Leopards don't eat dry hay in most cases, especially small ones. The rest of your diet sounds good.
2. Ditch the sand. Its a big impaction risk and possible skin and eye irritant, even when in a mix like that. Ditch the hay too. Mold and mildew risk and no reason to use it.
3. I see a stick on dial type thermometer on the wall of your enclosure. Those are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable. How else are you measuring temps and humidity?
4. That pyramiding is going to continue on its current path or likely worsen with your set up. Its just physics. That vast majority of vets, breeders, book writers and "experts" would totally agree with your two vets. They are espousing the old way of doing things. These are NOT desert animals and that is why keeping them in desert conditions results in the horrible disfigurement that we usually see. Ask any of the above "experts" how many smooth leopard tortoises they have raised from hatchlings and then ask for pics to see what their idea of "smooth" is. Then compare it to this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-56643.html
Then compare it to the 100s of other examples of smooth "natural" looking leopards on this forum.

You have obviously done your homework and applied a great amount of effort. For that I applaud you. Unfortunately, your research material was outdated and we now know better. I hope we are able to help you and your tortoise. Click the links in my signature for a whole bunch more info regarding what we've all been discussing above.

 

[Jhwells46]

Ok, yeah short of reading every thread on here, I have tried to learn as much info on this species that is available, which as I'm sure you've all encounter, isn't much. Pulled out as much hay as possible, I am currently out of town on business and have a very good trustworthy friend and fellow tort lover taking care of her while I'm gone. I will change the other side and eliminate the sand when I get home. What is the best way to maintain high humidity in an open table? I have a low watt bulb set up over a jar of water, and have misted the hell out of that side of her table. With that being said, the crappy gauge tells me it's up around 60% now. Should I slowly step her up to higher humidity or just dive straight in? What is a good trustworthy humidity/temp gauge? She seems more apt to hanging out on the humid/hot side now and is more active today. She gave me the stink eye when I pulled the hay out earlier lol. What is my best course of action to combat the pyramiding and with all these tips executed, will her shell smooth out? Also, it's hard to feel like you've done anything to harm or inhibit such an amazing animal. Might want to work on your greeting skills with newbies like myself. I know there are a lot of idiots out there who get these as pets and have no right to own them, but perhaps practice giving the good news before diving into the "you're totally ******* this up" stuff. Thank you thank you thank you for the advice though, Tippy and I greatly appreciate it.

Also, you can pick up a rice steamer like that at any international or Asian market. If you need tips on how to cut it and such, I'll start a new thread with instructions when I get home.

 

[Jhwells46]

Oh! I can't believe I didn't mention this before, but she has an extra scute on her right side. Does that have any affect on her shell growth looking kinda funky?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Hi Jhwells,

I'll try my best to address the questions from your last post. I hope it helps you

The most efficient way to maintain humidity is in a closed chamber or by covering the current table. While that is a method many of us prefer, it isn't your only option. Some keep an open table but have a single humid hide. Yvonne is one member that comes to mind. She has an open tort table in her heated tortoise shed and only offers a humid hide. She is successfully raising her 3rd smooth leopard this way. Another member is experimenting with an open table and lots of foliage for humid areas. Time will tell how that works out for her.

Don't drive straight into high humidity. I've seen that happen and the results can potentially be fatal. A gradual acclimation is what I recommend. Maybe you start with the humid hide and in a few weeks partially cover the current table. Then a few more weeks later, fully cover the table.

My favorite hydrometer is $9 from WalMart or $10 from Home Depot (ooh a dollar more gets you a clip on the back instead of a magnet lol). It's made by AcuRite and records the 24hr highs and lows for both RH and temps. Basically it looks like this,

The "bumps" she currently has on her shell will never go away. New growth can come in smooth but it will take a long time until you see that.

It's nice that you have friend who can help care for your tort while you are away. When you come back home we'll try the best we can to help you adjust things.

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btw, the extra scute will not affect her at all. If anything the abnormality indicates a higher possibility of you having a female

 

[Jhwells46]

Alright! Thanks for all the info! Stepping her up slowly, brought her up to 60% in her hot/humid side before leaving and my friend has been in there misting several times a day to maintain that. Was in Savannah yesterday and found an exotics specialty store and bought some finer coconut bedding and some sphagnum moss. Is it basically the same thing as Spanish moss?? Felt kinda silly buying a big bag of it when it's hanging from every tree there!! Also, got to see a beautiful 15 year old albino Sulcata while I was there! Will upload a video of her later. Thanks again!!

 

[Wartortle]

Ok, yeah short of reading every thread on here, I have tried to learn as much info on this species that is available, which as I'm sure you've all encounter, isn't much. Pulled out as much hay as possible, I am currently out of town on business and have a very good trustworthy friend and fellow tort lover taking care of her while I'm gone. I will change the other side and eliminate the sand when I get home. What is the best way to maintain high humidity in an open table? I have a low watt bulb set up over a jar of water, and have misted the hell out of that side of her table. With that being said, the crappy gauge tells me it's up around 60% now. Should I slowly step her up to higher humidity or just dive straight in? What is a good trustworthy humidity/temp gauge? She seems more apt to hanging out on the humid/hot side now and is more active today. She gave me the stink eye when I pulled the hay out earlier lol. What is my best course of action to combat the pyramiding and with all these tips executed, will her shell smooth out? Also, it's hard to feel like you've done anything to harm or inhibit such an amazing animal. Might want to work on your greeting skills with newbies like myself. I know there are a lot of idiots out there who get these as pets and have no right to own them, but perhaps practice giving the good news before diving into the "you're totally **** this up" stuff. Thank you thank you thank you for the advice though, Tippy and I greatly appreciate it.

Also, you can pick up a rice steamer like that at any international or Asian market. If you need tips on how to cut it and such, I'll start a new thread with instructions when I get home.

It seems like most of your questions were previously answered, but I'd just like to say welcome to the forum. Quick advice though- a lot of people on here are very.....direct about the way you should and shouldn't raise your tortoises. It's a little too passionate sometimes, but I'd recommend just taking the good advice and completely ignoring the attitude people give haha.
Your Leo looks a lot like mine. He was raised in a very very dry environment when I bought him and he was already significantly pyramided. Now, new growth has been smooth and is on his way to recovery with high heat and humidity

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello Julia welcome to the TFO from AZ . And most of all give your leopard tort double portions of love . Have a great tort day

 

[Jhwells46]

What the differences between Spaghnum moss and Spanish moss??

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Wartortle, your little one is adorable! Looks very much like mine thanks for the advice too!

 

[sherminator]

Spanish Moss holds moisture but not as well as Spaghnum Moss- I have found. And as I live in Savannah it is everywhere so I use it mixed with Spaghnum as its free but I have to put it in a Ziploc bag for a week or two to kill any bugs in it. My leo likes to hide under it to nap. I keep a mixture piled near under his heat lamp. And a pile in his humid hide and on the coolish side as well. LOVES it!!

 

[Jhwells46]

Introducing Tippy Land 2.0!
All coconut coir substrate mixing super fine moist with some coarser, an experimental water bowl, Spanish moss, and a covered garden hide using extra door screen and plastic wrap for humidity. She ran around and checked everything out and was so excited that she is now napping Got the humidity up to 60% after slowly stepping it up over the past week and raised the temps up to the 95 range during the day with 100 basking stone. There's an ice storm where I live now but once roads get better I'll go get a new humidity/temp gauge and some more obstacles for her to circumnavigate. She was one happy tortoise today!

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Planted some wheat grass seeds in there also so she can snack

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Gonna see how this goes and tweak it as needed, but my main focus is SLOW changes so she gets acclimated to everything.