Help me. (new baby desert tortoises)

Tom

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So would you leave sand in there? I was also told to try and copy their wildlife environment

No sand.

As far as trying to copy their wild environment: This is a much debated topic, and there are many opinions and arguments. Here are some of my many thoughts on the subject.
1. Our back yards cannot possibly duplicate the vastness and myriad of micro-climates present in the wild. Further we really don't know that much about what secretive juveniles do in the wild and how they manage to survive.
2. We DO know what kills them and what keeps them alive in captivity. Well… some of us know…
3. In the wild estimates range from 300-1000 babies die for every baby that survives to adulthood.
4. The wild is not necessarily a reflection of what is optimal. Some aspects of the wild are great, like lots of space for exercise, a wide variety of the right foods during good times, real sunshine, self-dug burrows to escape the above ground weather and temperature extremes. Other aspects of the wild like predators, disease and parasites, human interference, starvation in drought times, no water for 9 months a year, etc… are literally deadly.
5. Given the above, I choose to give my babies what I know to be "optimal" conditions. I do not impose conditions that are possibly survivable, but not necessarily good, upon them.
6. One thing that must be considered is that this is a primarily fossorial species. Meaning they live most of their lives underground. This protects them from temperature extremes and dehydration. When we bring them into our backyards, they spend that vast majority of their time above ground. Even with our attempts at man-made burrows, which you will need to learn all about in the next few years, they are still subjected to unnatural temperature swings and extremes, and levels of hot dry air that they would avoid out in the wild.

Its good to study and learn all you can about the wild. Fun too. But don't ignore what we've learned about keeping them in captivity either, which is what some people tend to do.
 

PattyAlexis

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I'm just curious. If I don't have sand. How will they do when they get older and I have them in my backyard?
 

Lyn W

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But still need help with lighting
A mercury vapour bulb provides heat light and uvb - see Yvonne's pictures again.
This is very easy to use just one ceramic holder with a wide dome hood for brooders (I've seen those quoted at about $10 in places like Home Depot) Hang this over the enclosure rather than use the clamp as this is safer and the temp can easily be adjusted by raising or lowering the height of the bulb.
Turn that off at night and switch on the CHE (again see Yvonnes pics) which is plugged into a thermostat with a probe so that it only comes on when the temps drop - just a single electrical socket needed for that too. I use a second wide dome for mine(.
Deep domes could make the MVB/CHE overheat and burn out quickly).
 

ascott

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I'm just curious. If I don't have sand. How will they do when they get older and I have them in my backyard?

If the property you are going to house them on outdoors is 100% sandy loam, then you will have a problem....if your outdoor soil is native dirt then yes, there is some sandy loam mixed in with the clay soil....but it is a natural mixture and not a sand box type set up.
 

PattyAlexis

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So question. as far as them eating. some say lettuce is ok but to change it up. what do you all recommend? i did go to my local feed store like i mentioned before, but today was their first time trying it, but they did not eat it. so i caved and gave them lettuce. What do you all think?
 

Tom

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I'm just curious. If I don't have sand. How will they do when they get older and I have them in my backyard?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Can you clarify a bit?

They don't need sand at any stage of their life. It should be avoided for adults too.
 

PattyAlexis

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oh im sorry. well before i was told to mimic their natural habitat.. which i have found out on here its harmful for them due to digesting system. but i am still unsure about their diet and feeding. i am being told different things
 

Tom

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So question. as far as them eating. some say lettuce is ok but to change it up. what do you all recommend? i did go to my local feed store like i mentioned before, but today was their first time trying it, but they did not eat it. so i caved and gave them lettuce. What do you all think?

Here are some of the things they should be eating:
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food


If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole. Also use turnip, mustard and collard greens, cilantro, carrot tops, celery tops, etc. I would make lettuce a very small part of the diet.

Mixing Mazuri tortoise chow or ZooMed Grassland tortoise food with these grocery store greens will improve their nutritional value for your tortoise tremendously.
 

Lyn W

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So question. as far as them eating. some say lettuce is ok but to change it up. what do you all recommend? i did go to my local feed store like i mentioned before, but today was their first time trying it, but they did not eat it. so i caved and gave them lettuce. What do you all think?
Have you read the recommended caresheet? That will suggest suitable foods for diet.
There is not much nutrition in lettuce it is quite watery.
Gradually add some of the recommended foods and reduce the lettuce.
 

Lyn W

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oh im sorry. well before i was told to mimic their natural habitat.. which i have found out on here its harmful for them due to digesting system. but i am still unsure about their diet and feeding. i am being told different things
Patty,
It can be very confusing if you are trying to follow information from lots of different sources.
This is the best place for up to date information from many keepers all over the world with years of experience of raising hundreds of torts. They are sharing their tried and tested methods with us to save us making mistakes. It is all free and only done for the love of torts.
Forget what pet stores have told you - they are only really interested in profit not aftercare.
Older books and other websites often give out of date information so any advice you are given here is what you should try to follow.
It will keep your torts happy and healthy and save you a fortune in vets bills!
 

Tom

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Patty, did you see all the info and links in post #19 on page one?

I have a feeling your computer or device may have taken you to page 2 and you might have missed the last few posts on page one. I put some links there too, explaining all of this stuff.
 

PattyAlexis

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Patty, did you see all the info and links in post #19 on page one?

I have a feeling your computer or device may have taken you to page 2 and you might have missed the last few posts on page one. I put some links there too, explaining all of this stuff.

Hi yes i've been going to the websites looking at different ideas for food and what not I'm just not 100% sure on the food just because the only thing I've been seeing them he is either my Bermuda grass that I have growing in my backyard or the Romain lettuce but I know Romain lettuce does not have the nutritions they need so I'm trying to figure out other ideas as well another thing is I'm trying to also figure out what kind of tortoise it is I know someone did tell me that they are desert tortoise but also a different kind not too sure but then again I get caught up in reading on everything about tortoises so I get sidetracked it so very interesting
 

PattyAlexis

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So I also told by my cousin who has many reptiles that there is some kind of powder substance that I need to sprinkle on their food to get their nutrition something of vitamin D
 

SarahChelonoidis

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So I also told by my cousin who has many reptiles that there is some kind of powder substance that I need to sprinkle on their food to get their nutrition something of vitamin D

If they're eating a limited diet of store greens, calcium powder and other vitamin supplements is likely needed. If they're not getting natural sun, the vitamins should have d3 as well.
 

Lyn W

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As I understand it only very small amounts of supplements are needed occasionally and uvb is necessary to help with digestion and the absorption of the minerals etc whether from the sun or artificially with a MVB such as the Arcadia Mini D3 or tube fixtures.

Hi yes i've been going to the websites looking at different ideas for food and what not I'm just not 100% sure on the food just because the only thing I've been seeing them he is either my Bermuda grass that I have growing in my backyard or the Romain lettuce but I know Romain lettuce does not have the nutritions they need so I'm trying to figure out other ideas as well another thing is I'm trying to also figure out what kind of tortoise it is I know someone did tell me that they are desert tortoise but also a different kind not too sure but then again I get caught up in reading on everything about tortoises so I get sidetracked it so very interesting

Tom has kindly given you a great list of foods a few posts back - so try any of those or different combinations of them.
 

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