Help with Temperature too low!

[Shally]

Hi everyone

I’m having difficulty in getting the basking area up to the right temperature and have rearranged the enclosure and probes to try and get a correct reading. I have attached pictures and will explain each one to see if anyone can see what the issue is and what I need to do to resolve it.

Picture 1 is the full view of Turbos Pad! (The red X is where he was hiding)
Picture 2 is circled blue to show where the probe is situated in the cool end of the tank.
Picture 3 is circled red to so where the temp and thermostat probes are located in basking spot.
Picture 4 is circled green to show the temperature at the cool end of the tank
Picture 5 is circled yellow to show the temperature at basking spot.

His favourite hidey hole was in the hot end of the tank but moved this to the cooler end after doing some more research because he wasn’t coming out of there! Since redoing it he has been exploring more today, but I’m concerned that his basking area is not hot enough for him. I was told by pet store that the thermostat and basking bulb I have are adequate, but I was wondering if I needed a high range thermostat. I currently have the Habistat Classic Dimming Thermostat which has 92F as the highest range and it is cranked as far as it will go round but still not getting higher than 85.5F. The heat bulb I have is a Solar Basking Floodlight E27 100W. Not sure if this heating issue has any relevance on his eating habits but so far after offering lots of different things, he will only eat lettuce and dandelions!! He’s had a little nibble of Cantaloupe Melon, Broccoli, and Radish but everything else I’ve offered he’s not interested! Surely, he can’t survive on lettuce and Dandelions! I am currently propagating seeds of Lambs Lettuce, Cat Grass, Ox-eye Daisy, Jade Plant, Mustard and Cress, Tortoise Mix, Cornflower and Clover, but obviously he needs something in the meantime. fingers crossed he will like all or some of these as I want him to eat home grown food and not buy from supermarket. Apologies for the big post but I’m worried he will start to become unwell
Really appreciate any help offered
Thank you

 

[biochemnerd808]

Hi there, and welcome. You're off to a good start and asking good questions.

Have you read @Tom's excellent care sheet? https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/
Would you be open to making a few changes to your set-up and diet? Here are some suggestions - don't feel like you need to make all the changes at once.
1) Moistened coconut coir and/or fine orchid bark make a better substrate than any moss or hay or shavings.
2) Instead of measuring the temperatures with a probe, get a non contact infrared thermometer. I like the one by Inkbird. Based on the temp reading under the basking bulb at shell height, you may have to raise the bulb. 100w is really high wattage for a closed enclosure. I've used that wattage in large open tables, but they would overheat a closed, insulated habitat.
3) food. Best diet for Russian tortoises are dark leafy greens, preferably weeds. Zero fruit, it is very harmful for your Russian tortoise's gut. No broccoli or other veggies either. You may have to do some tough love - only offer healthy greens, and your tortoise will eventually get hungry and chow down. Especially if you have an adult tortoise that was once wild... It knows what weeds taste like. If you offer fruit, of course it will eat fruit (like a kid wanting more candy). Good job growing the plants you are propagating. Those will be good and healthy foods! Until you can grow your own, if you aren't able to forage for wild weeds, try to feed some of the tougher grocery greens like kale, collards, mustard greens, raddicchio, any of the more bitter salads, arugula, etc.
Is your tortoise a baby (under 4") or a juvenile or adult?

 

[Tom]

Hi everyone

I’m having difficulty in getting the basking area up to the right temperature and have rearranged the enclosure and probes to try and get a correct reading. I have attached pictures and will explain each one to see if anyone can see what the issue is and what I need to do to resolve it.

Picture 1 is the full view of Turbos Pad! (The red X is where he was hiding)
Picture 2 is circled blue to show where the probe is situated in the cool end of the tank.
Picture 3 is circled red to so where the temp and thermostat probes are located in basking spot.
Picture 4 is circled green to show the temperature at the cool end of the tank
Picture 5 is circled yellow to show the temperature at basking spot.

His favourite hidey hole was in the hot end of the tank but moved this to the cooler end after doing some more research because he wasn’t coming out of there! Since redoing it he has been exploring more today, but I’m concerned that his basking area is not hot enough for him. I was told by pet store that the thermostat and basking bulb I have are adequate, but I was wondering if I needed a high range thermostat. I currently have the Habistat Classic Dimming Thermostat which has 92F as the highest range and it is cranked as far as it will go round but still not getting higher than 85.5F. The heat bulb I have is a Solar Basking Floodlight E27 100W. Not sure if this heating issue has any relevance on his eating habits but so far after offering lots of different things, he will only eat lettuce and dandelions!! He’s had a little nibble of Cantaloupe Melon, Broccoli, and Radish but everything else I’ve offered he’s not interested! Surely, he can’t survive on lettuce and Dandelions! I am currently propagating seeds of Lambs Lettuce, Cat Grass, Ox-eye Daisy, Jade Plant, Mustard and Cress, Tortoise Mix, Cornflower and Clover, but obviously he needs something in the meantime. fingers crossed he will like all or some of these as I want him to eat home grown food and not buy from supermarket. Apologies for the big post but I’m worried he will start to become unwell
Really appreciate any help offered
Thank you
View attachment 344467View attachment 344468View attachment 344469View attachment 344470View attachment 344471

All great info from Katie.

You don't want a thermostat on your basking bulb. The sun shouldn't turn off and on all day. A thermostat is to control back ground ambient heat from a heat source that doesn't generate light.

I agree that a 100 watt bulb might be too much in a closed chamber. I only use 25-45 watt ones in my 8x3 foot ones.

The care sheet from Katie will help, but here is some more info:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.