Hibernation In The Spring?

twoxtwo

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I am fostering my g.daughters 2 Russian Turtles while away in college. I got them 8/2017, their about 3 yrs old, girls. I have them in a large indoor tortoise house box, I took them to a vet to get completely checked out to make sure they were healthy, they are. they get all the appropriate foods, Late Nov 2017 - Early March 2018 they hibernated on there own successfully. This year Nov 2018 - Early 2019 they did not hibernate. However, about 3 weeks ago early May they started showing signs they wanted to hibernate, less eating, always going in the house box, dig deep to sleep, etc. it's Spring, I tried to keep them awake and not to hibernate. Bath time weekly, woke them up daily..etc. it's not working. I provide them fresh water and food daily, I would move them to the open box daily to encourage them to eat and wake up. They immediately walk off to the enclosed house box and go back to sleep. 3 days ago I stopped getting them up and haven't seen them since. I check on them daily and touch their foot to make sure they are still moving, they are. I still offer clean fresh water to box but no food since they aren't coming out. There in an area I see them constantly if they were to emerge. Isn't it unusual for them to hibernate now? we live in Texas, Should I let them hibernate or wake them and how would I keep them awake? Help...Thanks

Turts thumbnail.jpeg
 

Maro2Bear

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What are the outside/day time temperatures? Maybe this is their way of cooling down and getting out of the extreme heat between lets say 1000 and 1600.

Aestivation or æstivation (from Latin: aestas, summer, but also spelled estivationin American English) is a state of animal dormancy, similar to hibernation, although taking place in the summer rather than the winter. Aestivation is characterized by inactivity and a lowered metabolic rate, that is entered in response to high temperatures and arid conditions.[1] It takes place during times of heat and dryness, the hot dry season, which are often the summer months.

Invertebrate and vertebrate animals are known to enter this state to avoid damage from high temperatures and the risk of desiccation. Both terrestrial and aquatic animals undergo aestivation. The fossil record suggests that aestivation may have evolved several hundred million years ago.

From Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aestivation
 

dmmj

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What are the outside/day time temperatures? Maybe this is their way of cooling down and getting out of the extreme heat between lets say 1000 and 1600.

Aestivation or æstivation (from Latin: aestas, summer, but also spelled estivationin American English) is a state of animal dormancy, similar to hibernation, although taking place in the summer rather than the winter. Aestivation is characterized by inactivity and a lowered metabolic rate, that is entered in response to high temperatures and arid conditions.[1] It takes place during times of heat and dryness, the hot dry season, which are often the summer months.

Invertebrate and vertebrate animals are known to enter this state to avoid damage from high temperatures and the risk of desiccation. Both terrestrial and aquatic animals undergo aestivation. The fossil record suggests that aestivation may have evolved several hundred million years ago.

From Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aestivation
1000-1600 yikez where are you? Poor tortoises :rolleyes:
I agree what are the temps there (hopefully not 1000:))
 

Maro2Bear

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1000-1600 yikez where are you? Poor tortoises :rolleyes:
I agree what are the temps there (hopefully not 1000:))

Those were the times of day I was making reference to, not the temps themselves! Yes...that would be hot!
  • Maybe this is their way of cooling down and getting out of the extreme heat between lets say 1000 AM and 1600 PM.
 

twoxtwo

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Those were the times of day I was making reference to, not the temps themselves! Yes...that would be hot!
  • Maybe this is their way of cooling down and getting out of the extreme heat between lets say 1000 AM and 1600 PM.
The Turts are inside the house in a controlled environment...the humidity in the box is 60% (normal range) and temperature is 70 degrees...the only change to their box is I changed out the subrate to cypress mulch about a month ago...so don't understand why they are hibernating now..what do I do, do I wake them or leave them alone? I am going out of town for 10 days and want to instruct my husband how to care for them in my absence...please advise...thanks
 

Tom

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The Turts are inside the house in a controlled environment...the humidity in the box is 60% (normal range) and temperature is 70 degrees...the only change to their box is I changed out the subrate to cypress mulch about a month ago...so don't understand why they are hibernating now..what do I do, do I wake them or leave them alone? I am going out of town for 10 days and want to instruct my husband how to care for them in my absence...please advise...thanks
They are not hibernating and cannot hibernate in temperatures that warm. Something is wrong with their environment and they are waiting for better conditions to return. You said temp was 70, but you didn't mention any heat source. Do they have a heat lamp?

Also, an adult Russian tortoise needs a minimum of 4x8 feet of enclosure space. They aren't going to drop dead in a 3x5' enclosure, but more space is better, and needed. How big is your enclosure?

Russian tortoises are extremely scrappy and territorial. They are probably the most combative species of all of them. They should NEVER live as pairs. These two are probably both extremely stressed out by the presence of the other and the long term chronic stress can cause suppression of the immune system, lethargy and lack of appetite. They need to be separated ASAP.

Here is the care info for Russian tortoises. Heating, lighting, housing and feeding is all explained. Read through this to make sure you have all these bases covered in your enclosure. https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
 

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Do you have lights over the enclosure? 70F degrees is way too cool for a tortoise. That's why they're staying in their hiding place. If a tortoise can't warm up his inner core to over 80F degrees, he won't eat. They will just stay hidden, waiting until the 'sun' warms up their world to a temperature that they can get warmed up in.

Pictures of the tortoises in their enclosure would help us give you better information, including the lights and all.

I just re-read your post. You say they're about three years old. That's pretty young. We (here in the U.S.) don't have too many Russian tortoise breeders and most of the russians here are wild caught. Wild caught russian tortoises are much older than three years. All pet store russians are upwards of 8 to 10 years of age, that is, fully grown, adult tortoises.
 

twoxtwo

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Those were the times of day I was making reference to, not the temps themselves! Yes...that would be hot!
  • Maybe this is their way of cooling down and getting out of the extreme heat between lets say 1000 AM and 1600 PM.
I appreciate all the responses...I have attached photo of their housing & them in their house as they are now....they have a large enough house for them...they have both great lighting and heat lamps as well....my g.daughter told me they are 7 yrs old...they have been together 6 of the seven yrs together and get along fine...the temp in the house as of now is 60% humidity & 78% temp...I check on them everyday (touch their leg) to make sure they are alive...like I said the only change I made was changing out their bedding to Cypress mulch....they are still sleeping...
Do you have lights over the enclosure? 70F degrees is way too cool for a tortoise. That's why they're staying in their hiding place. If a tortoise can't warm up his inner core to over 80F degrees, he won't eat. They will just stay hidden, waiting until the 'sun' warms up their world to a temperature that they can get warmed up in.

Pictures of the tortoises in their enclosure would help us give you better information, including the lights and all.

I just re-read your post. You say they're about three years old. That's pretty young. We (here in the U.S.) don't have too many Russian tortoise breeders and most of the russians here are wild caught. Wild caught russian tortoises are much older than three years. All pet store russians are upwards of 8 to 10 years of age, that is, fully grown, adult tortoises.


I attached a photo of their housing & them as they are now, sleeping....their house is big enough for the two of them...they have the appropriate lighting and heat lamps on their home...they look to be in great shape...my g.daughter told me they were 7yrs old not 3...and both have lived together since 6 of the 7 yrs and get along great...the humidity is 60% and temp is 78 at this time...I check on them daily for any change (movement) and touch their leg to make sure the are alive/move...they are...like I said the only change to their environment, the change the bedding to cypress mulch..that's it...I soaked them weekly for hydration...feed them a well balanced variety diet to there breed...so I don't understand why they are still sleeping. pls, advise...

Turts 0623.jpeg Turts housing.jpeg
 

twoxtwo

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I appreciate all the responses...I have attached photo of their housing & them in their house as they are now....they have a large enough house for them...they have both great lighting and heat lamps as well....my g.daughter told me they are 7 yrs old...they have been together 6 of the seven yrs together and get along fine...the temp in the house as of now is 60% humidity & 78% temp...I check on them everyday (touch their leg) to make sure they are alive...like I said the only change I made was changing out their bedding to Cypress mulch....they are still sleeping...
 

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Yvonne G

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The reason you've been advised to separate them isn't because the enclosure isn't big enough (it really isn't, though), it's because pairs do not work. When you have only two tortoise in one 'territory' there's one dominant, who the territory belongs to, and one not dominant. The dominant tortoise will constantly tell the less dominant tortoise to get out of the territory, which is something she can't do because they're closed in. Tortoises don't live in pairs or even groups in the wild. They are solitary creatures.

You may not see overt acts of 'bullying' but it's there none the less, and it's very stressful to both animals.

A note on your enclosure. Those Zoo Med Tortoise Houses would be ok for a hatchling tortoise, but even putting two together like you've done, they aren't big enough for a grown tortoise (which yours both are). Russian tortoises are hard wired to wander over great distances looking for food. The miles of wandering aids with digestion, and keeps the digestive tract healthy.

Would it be possible for you to make a safe outdoor pen for them? Two tortoises can live together much better when outside in a LARGE, well planted enclosure. Then, when the weather turns cold they can be brought in to hibernate, and there would be no need of an indoor enclosure.
 

twoxtwo

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So I understand...are you saying they are sleeping all the time (acting like they are hibernating) because the space is to small? If there being bullied why are they sleeping together..one always follows the other...my house has 2 separate areas they can get away from each other but they never do...I never see them fighting but I have seen the bigger one humping and its sexual not fighting the other one...I have had them 2 yrs while my g.daughter is away at college...they have not done this before...they bask under the heat lamp...roam around etc....I do have a large space out doors behind my shed where I could build them a space there...I took a picture of it...would I need to clean out all those weeds or could I leave them ? ...I will look up outdoor enclosures to see what I can come up with....then I can do away with the light/heat lamps...etc, right? we live in TX so it gets hot here...I know they will need mulch so they have a cool area to bury in and I will shade half of the enclosure for their protection as well and leave half open to sun....I will look into this...

outdoor area 1.jpeg outdoor area 2.jpeg
 

dmmj

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You've just described tortoise bullying. Following each other sleeping same spot. 1 is telling the other "GET OUT!" but the 1 can't get away. Seperate and you will soon see a big difference. We don't say seperate to be mean. We have seen it time and time again.
 

RosemaryDW

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Welcome, if I haven’t said it earlier!

What you are describing is classic tortoise bullying. They need to be separated. I don’t know how we can say it more plainly.

They also each need a larger enclosure.

If you make a great big large one perhaps they can share it but it would have to be awfully big. Russians are super territorial.

I can see by these enclosures how much effort and care you are putting into take care of these two; I know you can make the right changes now that you have better advice.
 

Yvonne G

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Leave the weeds. That's food!

They may be staying in the hiding place because they're waiting for their environment to become more tortoise-friendly. They need a temperature of about 78F degrees, with about 100F directly under the light.

Could it be that your air conditioner vent blows at them?
 

Yvonne G

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So I understand...are you saying they are sleeping all the time (acting like they are hibernating) because the space is to small? If there being bullied why are they sleeping together..one always follows the other...my house has 2 separate areas they can get away from each other but they never do...I never see them fighting but I have seen the bigger one humping and its sexual not fighting the other one...I have had them 2 yrs while my g.daughter is away at college...they have not done this before...they bask under the heat lamp...roam around etc....I do have a large space out doors behind my shed where I could build them a space there...I took a picture of it...would I need to clean out all those weeds or could I leave them ? ...I will look up outdoor enclosures to see what I can come up with....then I can do away with the light/heat lamps...etc, right? we live in TX so it gets hot here...I know they will need mulch so they have a cool area to bury in and I will shade half of the enclosure for their protection as well and leave half open to sun....I will look into this...

View attachment 275275 View attachment 275276
Oh man. . . you already have what you need. You can make the fence out of those bricks. Be sure to make it tall enough that they can't climb out. Take a look at our enclosure section for ideas.
 

RosemaryDW

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Oh man. . . you already have what you need. You can make the fence out of those bricks. Be sure to make it tall enough that they can't climb out. Take a look at our enclosure section for ideas.

Oh wow, yes. The photos didn’t load for me the first time. Plenty of space here!
 

twoxtwo

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Update...I took the bullying comments seriously. On Sunday I put in the divider that separates the two houses, I was skeptical this was one of the issues. I put in fresh water & fresh grassland food just in case they came out...day 1, day 2 nothing...on day 3 Shelby the largest one popped out, I was amazed, she was basking under the heat lamp, but did not eat anything, then went back in the house. Tipper the smaller one has not made an appearance yet. day 4 (today) Shelby came out again, this time I added some Roman lettuce to her diet (her favorite) & to entice her to eat, it worked she munch down & is out under her heat lamp. I took Tippy out of her house & put her under the heat lamp & hoped she would eat something & stay out...she didn't went back in the house. The second issue in the comments was their housing...to small & with the divider in it really is now. I am in the process of building the out door enclosure for them now, hope to have it done tomorrow, I will have a divider so they have their own side/space to enjoy. I'll keep you posted once it's completed. All I want is happy turtles

turtles yard space.jpeg Turt 1 day 2.jpeg Turt 2 day 1.jpeg
 

RosemaryDW

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Thanks for taking the advice!

They’ve had a bit of a change; just give them a little more time in the warm weather and they will perk up.
 

twoxtwo

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Got the outdoor area built today, my sister helped me....the walls are very solid, they will not fall on them...the top is temporary...going to Lowes tomorrow to find a solid 6x4 piece....once I put them in the new area today they starte munching away on the clover...put plenty of cypress mulch in the close housing area...I will check them every morning.....do I need to worry about any predators of any kind???? that is my biggest worry having them outside not under my 24x7 care and out of my immediate site...
 

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twoxtwo

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Got the outdoor area built today, my sister helped me....the walls are very solid, they will not fall on them...the top is temporary...going to Lowes tomorrow to find a solid 6x4 piece....once I put them in the new area today they starte munching away on the clover...put plenty of cypress mulch in the close housing area...I will check them every morning.....do I need to worry about any predators of any kind???? that is my biggest worry having them outside not under my 24x7 care and out of my immediate site...

Well it didn't take long before I knew it was time to modified the Tort Resort... over the past couple of days I noticed the sun setting in the west is shining too much sun / heat into they're bedding area.... it gets pretty hot in Texas and it's been in the mid-90s this week... so I researched and YouTubed the problem... decided they needed an underground area to keep cool and protected from the hot sun...so this morning my sister and I went to work to build their tort cave ....we were pretty successful, we made this whole pen area out of materials I already had on hand... I even had left over vinyl siding that interlock together we useed for the top.... my husband's idea, that's an engineer for ya serves it's purpose
 

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