Hibernation Oozing
- Thread starter Merrit321
- Start date
- Status
Well, it's only temporary, and is due to change within 5 hours of Christmas morning, but I have it in a storage bin which is about 40 gallons. My dad has already told me he is buying a 100 gallon storage bin for me for Christmas. I also have a 75 watt day bulb and a heating pad. They are on eco-earth, but I'm going to add play sand when I get the new tank. As for temperatures, I'm not sure. I only have one thermometer which is in my gecko's cage, and I don't want t0o spread a disease that geckos are immune to and torts aren't by moving the thermometer.
NO SAND!!! NO SAND!!! i have had some horrible experiences with tortoises get eye infections with sand. also their food gets covered in it. and when the sand is wet, and they walk in it, its get stuck to them, and their tail/poophole gets covered in it.
please oh please, choose something else besides sand.
buying another thermometer. you need to know the temps. thats an absolute must.
please oh please, choose something else besides sand.
buying another thermometer. you need to know the temps. thats an absolute must.
I use a 70/30 coir/sand mix for my Russian hatchling and I haven't had any problems with it...
And yes it is very important to know the temperature of your tort's enclosure. You can buy really inexpensive thermometers at the pet store. I bought one with a probe and it was only a few dollars.
And yes it is very important to know the temperature of your tort's enclosure. You can buy really inexpensive thermometers at the pet store. I bought one with a probe and it was only a few dollars.
You need to get a UVB bulb, and it will not be cheap. They run from 35-50$ a piece and the cheaper they are, the more they have to be replaced. I use the Trex 100W mercury vapor bulbs for all of my Greeks. If you do not have UVB, your torts will get soft shell and die. It is not optional.
Right now walmart has xmas tree storage bins. They are 51 inches long, 18 inches wide and 12 inches deep. It would be the perfect enclosure for a single Greek. Can you post some pictures of your current setup?
Also, ditch that heating pad asap. Torts do not feel heat as correctly from the bottom of their shells, and this can cause them to overheat and sustain belly burns. You need to provide a hot spot from above only.
Right now walmart has xmas tree storage bins. They are 51 inches long, 18 inches wide and 12 inches deep. It would be the perfect enclosure for a single Greek. Can you post some pictures of your current setup?
Also, ditch that heating pad asap. Torts do not feel heat as correctly from the bottom of their shells, and this can cause them to overheat and sustain belly burns. You need to provide a hot spot from above only.
Meg90 said:
Many of my tortoises would disagree with this, as would a lot of other keepers and their tortoises. That being said, it is recommended, and it certainly is not going to hurt. Well... there have been some instances of certain UVB producing bulbs causing blindness and death, but if you stick to the old standbys there should not be problems.
I would also recommend taking this tortoise to the vet for a good once over just to make sure that he/she is in good health. Sorry to hear about the unfortunate end to your shelled friend. I have never lost a tortoise, but I have lost some of my lizards, and those hit me very hard.
-Ryan- >> It has already been established that this tortoise is ill. Did you read this thread? This new member is researching so he can fix his husbandry and save his remaining tortoise.
Also, if the shell on the other one was soft and oozing already, to have its fellow further be without UVB can only be damaging. Seeing as you are new on this site, I encourage you to do some more of your own research here.
The UVB bulbs that cause blindness and other ailments are the compact COILED bulbs, not MVBs. And while you may keep your tortoises without UVB, that topic is still debatable and therefore I would not advise new keepers to withhold UVB from their animals as it is not proven statistically on any reliable published source less than 10 years old that it is a healthy thing to do.
Also, if the shell on the other one was soft and oozing already, to have its fellow further be without UVB can only be damaging. Seeing as you are new on this site, I encourage you to do some more of your own research here.
The UVB bulbs that cause blindness and other ailments are the compact COILED bulbs, not MVBs. And while you may keep your tortoises without UVB, that topic is still debatable and therefore I would not advise new keepers to withhold UVB from their animals as it is not proven statistically on any reliable published source less than 10 years old that it is a healthy thing to do.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2008
- Messages
- 586
Merrit321...I agree with Meg.
You might want to just use paper towels or newspapers for substrate for a few weeks til you know for sure that this guy isn't going to develop whatever killed the other one. It will also be easier to monitor his poops. Take a fresh poop in a baggie to the vet for a fecal to see if he has parasites, bacteria, coccidia, protozoa, etc. Also, if you see any signs of pink on his plastron (belly), get him to the vet asap.
Check for UVB bulbs at www.petmountain.com. If you can't afford a MVB, which is the best choice, the 2nd best choice is ReptiSun 10 long fluorescent bulb...NOT ReptiGlo 10, & no compacts or coils. They have a history of causing eye and health problems.
A temp gun is best for taking temperatures, but Walmart has a digital with a probe at the end of a wire (AcuRite) for $12. You will need to leave it on the hot spot for 45 minutes to get an accurate temp.
Do you sprinkle his food with calcium? If not, you need to 2 or 3 days a week.
Please keep us informed as to how he is doing, cause we will all be worried for your baby.
Good luck
Patsy
You might want to just use paper towels or newspapers for substrate for a few weeks til you know for sure that this guy isn't going to develop whatever killed the other one. It will also be easier to monitor his poops. Take a fresh poop in a baggie to the vet for a fecal to see if he has parasites, bacteria, coccidia, protozoa, etc. Also, if you see any signs of pink on his plastron (belly), get him to the vet asap.
Check for UVB bulbs at www.petmountain.com. If you can't afford a MVB, which is the best choice, the 2nd best choice is ReptiSun 10 long fluorescent bulb...NOT ReptiGlo 10, & no compacts or coils. They have a history of causing eye and health problems.
A temp gun is best for taking temperatures, but Walmart has a digital with a probe at the end of a wire (AcuRite) for $12. You will need to leave it on the hot spot for 45 minutes to get an accurate temp.
Do you sprinkle his food with calcium? If not, you need to 2 or 3 days a week.
Please keep us informed as to how he is doing, cause we will all be worried for your baby.
Good luck
Patsy
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,111
I (Tim) am sorryMeg90 said:
, but this statement is simply not true. Your tortoise will NOT die from a lack of UVB! What will harm your tortoise and possibly lead to its death is the lack of calcium. A tortoise needs calcium. In order for calcium to get absorbed it has to have vitamin D, which is where UVB comes in to play. If you supplement with a calcium supplement that has vitamin D3, a tortoise will get sufficient calcium. Sprinkle your tortoises food several times a week, maybe even daily right now if it has a softening shell, with something like RepCal with Vitamin D3. It is widely available and inexpensive http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...cleaners/-/repcal-ultra-fine-calcium-with-d3/.
Thank you all for your suggestions, and I'm trying to develop a list, but all this just makes me hurt inside because I'm broke until Christmas, and I would ask my dad for money, but were collectively broke, so I'm SOL until tomorrow(We're having a Christmas party for my dad's side of the family, where I will receive money for a bin and probably some assorted cash) and when actual Christmas rolls around, I'll be stuck with the same bulbs.
For the camera, my friend was over and I used his, so until someone else with a camera comes over, no new pictures will be here, unless I find an old digital one.
And I do have some vitamin dust that I use occasional on my pet's food.
As for the vet checkup for the surviving tortoise, my dad's drive to the vet and get it checked out because the people on the forum said so bank is tapped for awhile, though I'll check if my aunt is avaliable this week.
For the camera, my friend was over and I used his, so until someone else with a camera comes over, no new pictures will be here, unless I find an old digital one.
And I do have some vitamin dust that I use occasional on my pet's food.
As for the vet checkup for the surviving tortoise, my dad's drive to the vet and get it checked out because the people on the forum said so bank is tapped for awhile, though I'll check if my aunt is avaliable this week.
Tim/Robin said:I (Tim) am sorryMeg90 said:
That has not been proven, IMO. And if you have a source, I'd love to read it. I have seen too many instances where people THINK that they can do this even with monitors and tegus that eat whole prey items in their diet, and it results in tragedy almost every time. D3 is stored in the body's fat and will eventually reach a toxic level if dosed incorrectly. Its also the lie that many sellers tell when concerning albino animals. They cannot tolerate real bright light, and therefore, sellers say to dose with D3 and not put them under light.
Again, I want to see where this is proven.
I will never risk this with any of my animals, and when I hear of a keeper practicing this, I always ask if they raise hatchling tortoises without UVB. Do you, Tim? Would you be willing to test this theory on a rare hatchling pyxis?
IMO you NEED a uvb bulb. Especially for an already ill tortoise. I am sorry that you cannot afford these things, but when undertaking the owning of any animal, there are always costs, especially unexpected ones. It is your duty to that animal to provide it with what it needs, and if that's vet care, and a UVB bulb then so be it.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,111
Meg90 said:
This will NOT turn in to an argument, Meg. My point was and is your statement of "If you do not have UVB, your torts will get soft shell and die. It is not optional" is not true. Lack of UVB will NOT kill a tortoise! I could ask you for proof, but again, this will not be an argument. I simply want the OP to know that there are cheaper acceptable alternatives to an expensive UVB bulb.
Just FYI Meg, I do raise Pyxis hatchlings without UVB! Anytime you're in my area, feel free to come see them, they are not going without!
I find that really interesting. I am not trying to argue with you, but I agree with statements that are backed up with research, and labs like the one behind MegaRay have been doing studies for years. To me its really out dated to keep dosing torts with only D3. I don't personally believe in it, but thats MO. But your animals are all doing well, so perhaps you should document the dosage etc, and publish your own findings. As a couple that have produced tortoises that zoo's have not, I would think your words would have some clout.
I would just like to see some proof. I have too often seen what happens when people think UVB and Vit D are optional, and its heartbreaking. We have wattages etc of bulbs that are reccomened for each species. If someone would take the time to document and discover what dosages are correct for each species, then perhaps there would be more merit in the D3 method.
But for newbies, I recommend only what I have researched as proven. Which are the UVB bulbs.
I would just like to see some proof. I have too often seen what happens when people think UVB and Vit D are optional, and its heartbreaking. We have wattages etc of bulbs that are reccomened for each species. If someone would take the time to document and discover what dosages are correct for each species, then perhaps there would be more merit in the D3 method.
But for newbies, I recommend only what I have researched as proven. Which are the UVB bulbs.
Okay, I'm back from the Christmas party for my dad's side of the family, and I received 40 bucks worth of Petco cards, 30 dollar visa prepaid card, and 30 bucks cash. I will be going to Walmart ASAP to get that bin, and I'll look for those bulbs. I'm not sure what I'm gonna buy with the Visa, and I may blow it on myself, but I'll try to stash some money in case the remaining tortoise shows signs of illness.
In your position I'm guessing you should be focusing on what you need.
You got the bin covered. For the substrate I'd suggest shreaded Aspen bedding (the fine stuff) or Garden mulch without the vermiculite.
Those UV bulbs are expensive and totally not necessary. Get a regular flood lamp from home depot and supplement your tortoises diet with either Mazuri, T-Rex Tortoise diet, Monster diet or Pretty pets.
UV bulbs do not last very long and are not very cost effective.
Also... check out this book. I'll bet it'll help.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0793828821/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
You got the bin covered. For the substrate I'd suggest shreaded Aspen bedding (the fine stuff) or Garden mulch without the vermiculite.
Those UV bulbs are expensive and totally not necessary. Get a regular flood lamp from home depot and supplement your tortoises diet with either Mazuri, T-Rex Tortoise diet, Monster diet or Pretty pets.
UV bulbs do not last very long and are not very cost effective.
Also... check out this book. I'll bet it'll help.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0793828821/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
Merrit321 said:
Correction... mulch without pearlite (not vermiculite)
I'm pretty sure we've been here before... I've got tortoises that I've been raising for about 4 years now without UVB. Some are hatchlings and some are adults. One group had MBD... the shells have thickened and are growing well. While this is not scientific proof it is solid anecdotal proof that UVB is not a necessity.
I'm pretty sure we've been here before... I've got tortoises that I've been raising for about 4 years now without UVB. Some are hatchlings and some are adults. One group had MBD... the shells have thickened and are growing well. While this is not scientific proof it is solid anecdotal proof that UVB is not a necessity.
Meg90 said:
Alrighty, I'll see if I can get a ride to Home Depot and Walmart sometime this week. I'll give my sister a call.
I just wanted to say, good luck with your tortoise. And don't bother with a UVB - (i have one and they are expensive) your tortoise will not die from lack of UVB. This is PROVEN. And spend some of that cash on yourself, your doing a great job with your remaining tortoise, but it is christmas, he won't begruge you some festive spirit
- Status
