Hibiscus

[samstar]

I know my Stars and Radiated loves it, how good is it for them? I was told by someone that it's like taking Vit C, is this true? What are the properties in Hibiscus that's good for torts?

 

[spikethebest]

I have no idea why it is good for them, I have just been told by many people that it is, and they love to eat it. So I continue to feed it to them.

 

[Madkins007]

The flowers are empty calories but seem tasty.

The leaves are very low in calcium, but even lower in phosphorous. OK in fiber, etc.

The calyx- green part of the flower, is LOADED with calcium and nutrients.

Overall, a good plant, plenty of roughage, a good part of a balanced, varied, diet.

 

[moswen]

My tula eats the part that's all pollon first, then she gets around to the green part that holds the leaves together, and she eats the actual petals last. She completely ignores the leaves. However, like cory, I have no idea why it's supposed to be good for them I've just heard it from everyone and tula loves it!

 

[samstar]

The flowers are empty calories but seem tasty.

The leaves are very low in calcium, but even lower in phosphorous. OK in fiber, etc.

The calyx- green part of the flower, is LOADED with calcium and nutrients.

Overall, a good plant, plenty of roughage, a good part of a balanced, varied, diet.

Thanks! Never knew it had so much to offer.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

The flowers are empty calories but seem tasty.

The leaves are very low in calcium, but even lower in phosphorous. OK in fiber, etc.

The calyx- green part of the flower, is LOADED with calcium and nutrients.

Overall, a good plant, plenty of roughage, a good part of a balanced, varied, diet.

You know I've often wondered who put those stats together?! If they are so "empty" in everything.. then why do my hatchlings do so well on them as their staple diet? And they don't eat the so-called "best" part! How do we explain that Mark?

NERD

 

[samstar]

The flowers are empty calories but seem tasty.

The leaves are very low in calcium, but even lower in phosphorous. OK in fiber, etc.

The calyx- green part of the flower, is LOADED with calcium and nutrients.

Overall, a good plant, plenty of roughage, a good part of a balanced, varied, diet.

You know I've often wondered who put those stats together?! If they are so "empty" in everything.. then why do my hatchlings do so well on them as their staple diet? And they don't eat the so-called "best" part! How do we explain that Mark?

NERD

Hi Terry,
Thats good to hear cause currently Hibiscus is my Radiated's staple diet with a tad bit of Mazuri.

 

[N2TORTS]

Hibiscus flowers contain chemical agents that help to maintain health or prevent diseases. These ingredients have been named nutraceuticals .The information your asking about is the chemical composition of the hibiscus flower and its nutraceutical potential. There are many phenolic components present in Hibiscus with nutraceutical implications. . . Individual phenolic compounds present in plants differ in their structural complexity but mainly as natural antioxidants. The phenolics identified belongued to the flavonoids (anthocyanins, procyanidins, cathechins, epicathechins) and cinnamates. Also the flowers are known to contain chemicals known as anthocyanins, which have been shown to improve the functioning of blood vessels and strengthen the protein collagen, which helps give structure to cells and tissues, including blood vessels.

“ TWO GREEN THUMBS ARE BETTER THAN ONE”

JD~

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Hibiscus flowers contain chemical agents that help to maintain health or prevent diseases. These ingredients have been named nutraceuticals .The information your asking about is the chemical composition of the hibiscus flower and its nutraceutical potential. There are many phenolic components present in Hibiscus with nutraceutical implications. . . Individual phenolic compounds present in plants differ in their structural complexity but mainly as natural antioxidants. The phenolics identified belongued to the flavonoids (anthocyanins, procyanidins, cathechins, epicathechins) and cinnamates. Also the flowers are known to contain chemicals known as anthocyanins, which have been shown to improve the functioning of blood vessels and strengthen the protein collagen, which helps give structure to cells and tissues, including blood vessels.

“ TWO GREEN THUMBS ARE BETTER THAN ONE”

JD~

.. I doubt I'm the only one - sorry.

Jeff does all of that mean it builds strong bones and big muscals???

NERD

 

[N2TORTS]

Hibiscus flowers contain chemical agents that help to maintain health or prevent diseases. These ingredients have been named nutraceuticals .The information your asking about is the chemical composition of the hibiscus flower and its nutraceutical potential. There are many phenolic components present in Hibiscus with nutraceutical implications. . . Individual phenolic compounds present in plants differ in their structural complexity but mainly as natural antioxidants. The phenolics identified belongued to the flavonoids (anthocyanins, procyanidins, cathechins, epicathechins) and cinnamates. Also the flowers are known to contain chemicals known as anthocyanins, which have been shown to improve the functioning of blood vessels and strengthen the protein collagen, which helps give structure to cells and tissues, including blood vessels.

“ TWO GREEN THUMBS ARE BETTER THAN ONE”

JD~

.. I doubt I'm the only one - sorry.

Jeff does all of that mean it builds strong bones and big muscals???

NERD

Yup! ...remember Herpetology and Horticulture ...both start with the Letter "H" ... ...pssss... thats the 8th one!
Maybe I should write an article on it ?
Do you even have hibiscus in Tenn?

 

[samstar]

Wow more Hibiscus=IRONTORT!

 

[Madkins007]

The flowers are empty calories but seem tasty.

The leaves are very low in calcium, but even lower in phosphorous. OK in fiber, etc.

The calyx- green part of the flower, is LOADED with calcium and nutrients.

Overall, a good plant, plenty of roughage, a good part of a balanced, varied, diet.

You know I've often wondered who put those stats together?! If they are so "empty" in everything.. then why do my hatchlings do so well on them as their staple diet? And they don't eat the so-called "best" part! How do we explain that Mark?

NERD

Stats come from people who test the plants according to standards, just like they test carrots, etc. Since Hibiscus is used as a food, they have done the research.

Your guys don't eat the calyx? I thought you had said they did before? They may just not like the taste of them. I bet the flowers are the tastiest part!

Your guys do well because you feed a decent diet without over-emphasis on any one food, and because tortoises are probably one of the best-designed animals on Earth to do great on a very low-nutrient diet. Wild tortoises do just fine on diets much lower in nutrients than what we offer.

Hibiscus is fine, just not perfect. Its not empty in everything, just low in calcium in the leaves and flower. It still offers carbs, fiber, protein, vitamins, trace minerals, etc.

---

Hibiscus flowers contain chemical agents that help to maintain health or prevent diseases. These ingredients have been named nutraceuticals .The information your asking about is the chemical composition of the hibiscus flower and its nutraceutical potential. There are many phenolic components present in Hibiscus with nutraceutical implications. . . Individual phenolic compounds present in plants differ in their structural complexity but mainly as natural antioxidants. The phenolics identified belongued to the flavonoids (anthocyanins, procyanidins, cathechins, epicathechins) and cinnamates. Also the flowers are known to contain chemicals known as anthocyanins, which have been shown to improve the functioning of blood vessels and strengthen the protein collagen, which helps give structure to cells and tissues, including blood vessels.

“ TWO GREEN THUMBS ARE BETTER THAN ONE”

JD~

Interesting! What sort of dosage is in the plants? Are we talking about enough to be biologically or dietetically significant? I've got to read up more on 'the other H'!

 

[Aliego]

My torts love hibiscus, but I feed it to them about twice a week only, coz it's very addictive due to its flavoured taste

 

[dmmj]

Mine love the leaves and flowers, but the flowers are eaten quickly. Mine usually get them about 4 to 5 times a week along with a big handful of grape leaves.

 

[samstar]

I think my Radiated is pretty addicted to it by now!

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Hibiscus flowers contain chemical agents that help to maintain health or prevent diseases. These ingredients have been named nutraceuticals .The information your asking about is the chemical composition of the hibiscus flower and its nutraceutical potential. There are many phenolic components present in Hibiscus with nutraceutical implications. . . Individual phenolic compounds present in plants differ in their structural complexity but mainly as natural antioxidants. The phenolics identified belongued to the flavonoids (anthocyanins, procyanidins, cathechins, epicathechins) and cinnamates. Also the flowers are known to contain chemicals known as anthocyanins, which have been shown to improve the functioning of blood vessels and strengthen the protein collagen, which helps give structure to cells and tissues, including blood vessels.

“ TWO GREEN THUMBS ARE BETTER THAN ONE”

JD~

.. I doubt I'm the only one - sorry.

Jeff does all of that mean it builds strong bones and big muscals???

NERD

Yup! ...remember Herpetology and Horticulture ...both start with the Letter "H" ... ...pssss... thats the 8th one!
Maybe I should write an article on it ?
Do you even have hibiscus in Tenn?

remember Herpetology and Horticulture ...both start with the Letter "H" ... ...pssss... thats the 8th one!

Jeff what does the above and 8th? one mean?

Didn't I just say that they were the staple? Couldn't hardly feed them if I didn't have them.. could I? I grow them in my back yard - shown before they really started blooming -

Grape leaves in the foreground.

NERD

---

The flowers are empty calories but seem tasty.

The leaves are very low in calcium, but even lower in phosphorous. OK in fiber, etc.

The calyx- green part of the flower, is LOADED with calcium and nutrients.

Overall, a good plant, plenty of roughage, a good part of a balanced, varied, diet.

You know I've often wondered who put those stats together?! If they are so "empty" in everything.. then why do my hatchlings do so well on them as their staple diet? And they don't eat the so-called "best" part! How do we explain that Mark?

NERD

Stats come from people who test the plants according to standards, just like they test carrots, etc. Since Hibiscus is used as a food, they have done the research.

Your guys don't eat the calyx? I thought you had said they did before? They may just not like the taste of them. I bet the flowers are the tastiest part!

Your guys do well because you feed a decent diet without over-emphasis on any one food, and because tortoises are probably one of the best-designed animals on Earth to do great on a very low-nutrient diet. Wild tortoises do just fine on diets much lower in nutrients than what we offer.

Hibiscus is fine, just not perfect. Its not empty in everything, just low in calcium in the leaves and flower. It still offers carbs, fiber, protein, vitamins, trace minerals, etc.

---

---

Stats come from people who test the plants

Mark I would like to read these stats also.. would you post the source please?

Your guys don't eat the calyx? I thought you had said they did before?

The 'base' of the flower is always left.. the hatchlings don't eat them, although the others [ '08's and older ] do! I just toss what's left to them.

Your guys do well because you feed a decent diet without over-emphasis on any one food

The emphasis IS on the hibiscus blooms and leaves with a few dandelion thrown in maybe every other day!

I took these pics yesterday - I think this shows they like them [ 2 different May '10 hatchlings ] -

But the little mooches don't eat that other part! I won't read those stats to them. Do they look like they're doing O.K.?

Wild tortoises do just fine on diets much lower in nutrients than what we offer.

Can't disagree with that a bit Mark. Maybe 'we' keepers would learn from that and not "over-think" or get too "scientific" in our approach to maintaining these magnificent creatures........... huh??? How about "less is best" ?

NERD

 

[Madkins007]

Mark I would like to read these stats also.. would you post the source please?

Your guys don't eat the calyx? I thought you had said they did before?

The 'base' of the flower is always left.. the hatchlings don't eat them, although the others [ '08's and older ] do! I just toss what's left to them.

Your guys do well because you feed a decent diet without over-emphasis on any one food

The emphasis IS on the hibiscus blooms and leaves with a few dandelion thrown in maybe every other day!

I took these pics yesterday - I think this shows they like them [ 2 different May '10 hatchlings ] -

But the little mooches don't eat that other part! I won't read those stats to them. Do they look like they're doing O.K.?

Wild tortoises do just fine on diets much lower in nutrients than what we offer.

Can't disagree with that a bit Mark. Maybe 'we' keepers would learn from that and not "over-think" or get too "scientific" in our approach to maintaining these magnificent creatures........... huh??? How about "less is best" ?

NERD

Yeesh. Here we go again.

This time- YOU post something that shows actual values of the leaves as something good. Something that shows where they got the information and posts actual values, not just the Ca: P or restating some other sites undocumented info.

While we are at it, will you be changing the '09 diet revision' on Turtletary.com to reflect that emphasis on hibiscus and dandelion?

"Less is more" is a great philosophy on life. It is a less great dietary program. Wild Red-foots select from hundreds of foods. Most of us only have access to a couple dozen. Limiting food choices limits nutrients.

Considering the long-term, hidden effects of poor nutrition- poor organ and skeletal development, several forms of inflammation disorders, poor reproductive success, etc., that's a pretty big gamble that can be easily avoided by just following your suggestion on your caresheet: "...variety is good no doubt.."

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Mark I would like to read these stats also.. would you post the source please?

Your guys don't eat the calyx? I thought you had said they did before?

The 'base' of the flower is always left.. the hatchlings don't eat them, although the others [ '08's and older ] do! I just toss what's left to them.

Your guys do well because you feed a decent diet without over-emphasis on any one food

The emphasis IS on the hibiscus blooms and leaves with a few dandelion thrown in maybe every other day!

I took these pics yesterday - I think this shows they like them [ 2 different May '10 hatchlings ] -

But the little mooches don't eat that other part! I won't read those stats to them. Do they look like they're doing O.K.?

Wild tortoises do just fine on diets much lower in nutrients than what we offer.

Can't disagree with that a bit Mark. Maybe 'we' keepers would learn from that and not "over-think" or get too "scientific" in our approach to maintaining these magnificent creatures........... huh??? How about "less is best" ?

NERD

Yeesh. Here we go again.

This time- YOU post something that shows actual values of the leaves as something good. Something that shows where they got the information and posts actual values, not just the Ca: P or restating some other sites undocumented info.

While we are at it, will you be changing the '09 diet revision' on Turtletary.com to reflect that emphasis on hibiscus and dandelion?

"Less is more" is a great philosophy on life. It is a less great dietary program. Wild Red-foots select from hundreds of foods. Most of us only have access to a couple dozen. Limiting food choices limits nutrients.

Considering the long-term, hidden effects of poor nutrition- poor organ and skeletal development, several forms of inflammation disorders, poor reproductive success, etc., that's a pretty big gamble that can be easily avoided by just following your suggestion on your caresheet: "...variety is good no doubt.."

Mark I was agreeing with what you are saying - "Wild tortoises do just fine on diets much lower in nutrients than what we offer". Then I showed how they enjoyed eating the hibiscus. And was trying to be funny and said I wouldn't read to them about how hibiscus what not the perfect food for them. I am asking for your source of 'nutrient' info.. is that not a fair enough Q? Here's mine - http://home.earthlink.net/~rednine/nutrient.htm As far as calcium content for hibiscus.. that was at least 5 years ago and I'm not real sure where that info came from. I've not seen any bad results - and I sure have no reason to post anything that would hurt them.

Is asking for sources so I can "update" my experiences to avoid any complications with mine first.. wrong? Then I will be able to express what my own personal experience has been.. to others who don't have? And/or in the mean time at least have a legitimate source to reference.

Based on your 'research' claims of long-term effects.. how many years is considered 'long-term' effects? I have 12 year olds raised from hatchlings that seem to be doing fine. What should I be looking for? Is lower reproduction something to be concerned about?

Create a website and a caresheet and provide sources of info with links and I'll make the revisions you are suggesting and 'credit' you and a link to your site. And while you are doing that please provide me with the diet info that is easiest and most cost effect for the majority of the redfoot keepers in just the United States.. to start with.

And I will put the "order" of calcium contents ( of hibiscus ) in line with dandelions.. as soon as I have a legitimate source to reference. I thought I had it right. In the mean time how would you change the '09(?) diet revision? Thank you for your insight.

Samstar - it may not look like it.. but we are trying to figure out how good hibiscus is to feed out tortoises!

NERD

 

[samstar]

Hi Terry,
I have always found your information(with years of hands on experience) to be very helpful and just like with this thread, I have learned a lot more on how beneficial hibiscus can be for our torts, thank you.