Hourglass Shape
- Thread starter marine778
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That's not the location where the male's hourglass shape starts. It one scute more towards the head. When you start to see a dip over the hips like that, it usually means a bit of metabolic bone disease. Be sure your tortoise is eating plenty of calcium-rich foods, a supplement of calcium over his food a couple times a week and none of this works unless he also gets UVB either from the sun or from a good UVB light.
Oh crap... I always thought he got plenty of UV and calcium... I guess I need to pull him out of his hide a little more often for him to soak up some UV. I'm glad I decided to post something about this! Thanks for your help Yvonne
Well this always messes 'em up.. Yvonne is right about the calcium needs and what's going on with yours .. and you're going to have a time allowing him to "bask" on his own [ which is the only way you should do it ].. the D3 needs will come from animal protein in his diet.. not a light source. Redfoot tortoises that small [ or any size ] are not "baskers"! That's been my observation from raising and breeding them for 15 years.. anyway.
Provide their needs.. and the less you handle them the better.
Also if you have a Brazilian / cherryhead you won't see much hourglass in them [ for 5-6 years ] - nothing like the Northerns for sure.
Provide their needs.. and the less you handle them the better.
Also if you have a Brazilian / cherryhead you won't see much hourglass in them [ for 5-6 years ] - nothing like the Northerns for sure.
I'm not picking a fight but Redfoot tortoises require UVB for vitamin D3 production. What we see in captivity and what they may do in the wild are separate observations. Even if they aren't basking in noon sunlight, they are outside and exposed to low levels of UVB that may be adequate enough for D3 synthesis. I can't get over how this remains non-axiomatic to all keepers.
Bottom line, UVB found in sunlight cannot be fully replicated via bulbs and is therefore an inadequate replacement for the sun. Further, I won't rely upon diet to provide enough vitamin D3 to maintain adequate calcium absorption in my animals. If you get your redfoots outside for half the year, you're probably fine as D3 is fat soluble and stored for use all winter while your tort resides in its enclosure. I choose to use a low-level flat tube UVB (Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0) in the winter even though I have my tortoises outside almost daily for 6 months out of the year.
Marine, I would recomend placing a UVB light in the enclosure. The long tube florescents are good as are Mercury Vapor Bulbs specifically designed for reptiles (they give off poor CRI's, so only use this as a basking location and not for UVA). You're going to hear lots of conflicting dogma here, but your animals need UVB wavelengths. Period.
I will also add that tortoise doesn't look awful and may be a bit mis-shapen from being in the egg or just growing a bit funky (mine do this occassionally). Error on the side of caution and ensure you have plenty of UVB & Ca supplementation (2-3 times/week, too much of anything isn't good).
Bottom line, UVB found in sunlight cannot be fully replicated via bulbs and is therefore an inadequate replacement for the sun. Further, I won't rely upon diet to provide enough vitamin D3 to maintain adequate calcium absorption in my animals. If you get your redfoots outside for half the year, you're probably fine as D3 is fat soluble and stored for use all winter while your tort resides in its enclosure. I choose to use a low-level flat tube UVB (Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0) in the winter even though I have my tortoises outside almost daily for 6 months out of the year.
Marine, I would recomend placing a UVB light in the enclosure. The long tube florescents are good as are Mercury Vapor Bulbs specifically designed for reptiles (they give off poor CRI's, so only use this as a basking location and not for UVA). You're going to hear lots of conflicting dogma here, but your animals need UVB wavelengths. Period.
I will also add that tortoise doesn't look awful and may be a bit mis-shapen from being in the egg or just growing a bit funky (mine do this occassionally). Error on the side of caution and ensure you have plenty of UVB & Ca supplementation (2-3 times/week, too much of anything isn't good).
Redstrike said:
I actually do have a UV light in his enclosure AND I take him outside a few times a week for him to run around, which is why this is puzzling me, All I can think of is that the UV bulb that I recently replaced was only UVA.
At least I have a UVB one in there for sure now.
Quick questions. If torts hide for most of the day while young, how is it possible to fulfill their uvb requirements? How serious are the dips in the shell, like in the OP's picture and will it continue to keep that shape as they grow? Also, like Terry mentioned, we can't force them to bask so what can you do to prevent further mbd? Sorry if I hijacked a bit.
pfara said:
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for asking the BEST question on this thread! The BEST question that SHOULD be asked about REDFOOT tortoise hatchlings / youngsters!!!!!
It seems that most ALL the info given about REDFOOT tortoises is directed to those observed in the wild... which are most likely more than 2 years old - I'm speaking of the "science-heads/researchers" that campout in a place where REDFOOT tortoises are found and do their research.. [ cruising around taking pictures of them moving from one place to another ( they - the REDFOOT tortoises - stop occasionally so now they are considered "baskers" ) ].. and talk to locals about them who have actually seen them hiding when they are younger than 2 years old! [ but what do the locals know? ]
And then they [ the "researchers/ authors" ] write these "REDFOOT tortoise books" { BIBLES } on how to care for them - based on observations in the REDFOOT tortoises native territory. I really wonder how many of these "authors" have actually seen any youngsters/hatchlings " in the wild ".. or raised any hatchlings, etc.?
Which brings us to the most important question we need to ask on keeping a hatchling alive while it goes thru this critical stage where they don't get any sun [ commonly considered the only source of D3 for tortoises ] because they are hiding - to stay alive and not become prey to preditors!?!
For some reason [ which is bizarre to me ] the idea that every tortoise on the planet has the same identical needs ( regardless.. herbivorous or omnivorous ) has caused the reptile community to kill hatchlings/youngsters by the zillions! OVER medicating has killed more than UNDER medicating!
Based on what has been stated so far I better mention - THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS AND EXTREMES
And to make this even more difficult [ which I'm really trying to avoid ] the REDFOOT tortoises from North of the Amazon are somewhat different than those South [ commonly known as cherryheads ].
So to answer your BEST question: as simply as possible - PROVIDE THEIR NEEDS AND LEAVE THEM ALONE SO THEY CAN DO WHAT IS NATURAL FOR THEM DON'T TOUCH THEM OR "HELP" THEM!
More than half of a REDFOOT tortoise enclosure must be totally dark and warm.. which is where their hide is. The other end of their enclosure is where the water and food area is - with a LOW POWER light source is - with SAME TEMPS!!! - as the hide end.. no warm and cool ends for REDFOOT tortoises! FEED them what is natural for omnivorous REDFOOT tortoises. KEEP IT THIS SIMPLE AND THEY WILL THRIVE "NATURALLY".
If and when we "cheat" the system is when we and the REDFOOT tortoise gets in trouble. [ this following statement is for info ONLY - I don't need or seek any strokes.. too old for that nonsense! ]
"After 200 hatchlings I quit counting.. after no less than 3 "second generation" producing females [ hatchlings raised to become healthy enough to lay eggs ] based on the caresheet that has been created to get them started - the first year or two of their lives. Endless times I've received emails on how to care for them and all it takes is "BALANCE" the 4 needs.. TEMPS.. LIGHT.. HUMIDITY.. DIET - when we overdo or lack one or any of these we "CHEAT" the system and get in trouble"
See how and what you can expect here - http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm
OP... I had one lil guy that didn't want to be out of his hide either. Even when we go outside he looks for shade. So what I started doing was feeding them directly under the uvb light. They always get greens first and then their "fun" food be it mushrooms, zucchini, mazuri, or (gasp) banana! Smart lil guys started realizing that the "fun" food comes last and they hang around for it! So I started extending the time between greens and dessert and it works well. They sit under the uvb light very patiently waiting for the good stuff! If I know it's a go-outside-day I'll save their fun food for then so I can spend less time chasing shade seekers. They are willing to bask in the sun for a little pineapple!! 
I treat my baby box turtles the same way you're supposed to treat baby redfooted tortoises. I have the habitat heavily planted. There is no open space at all. The light (a regular 100 watt incandescent bulb) shines through the foliage in places and the overall temp across the whole habitat is about 80F degrees. I have raised box turtles in this manner for several years, and when they are old enough to go out into the 'big boy' pen, they are perfect little specimens. I don't have a UV light over their habitat, just the 100w incandescent bulb with a black light for night time. They get their vitamin d from the food they eat...and they get a very well-rounded diet.
Once the OP has corrected his calcium/vitamin d3/UVB problem, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to keep his little redfoot tortoise the same way I've described for my baby box turtles.
Once the OP has corrected his calcium/vitamin d3/UVB problem, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to keep his little redfoot tortoise the same way I've described for my baby box turtles.
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