How should i control the temperature of a heat pad?

[AshleeSparling]

Is directly from the manufacturer the best place to purchase a kane mat?

 

[Tom]

Is directly from the manufacturer the best place to purchase a kane mat?

I've gotten my last few from Tyler at tortoisesupply.com.

 

[Wpagey]

He's getting too big for CHEs. Make SURE that the carapace isn't getting over 100 degrees when he's sitting directly under the CHEs for long periods of time.

I prefer the 18x28 mats. Larger than that works too, as long as the tortoise has room to get off of it when it wants too.

A little substrate, poop, hay, dirt or mud on the mat will not hurt anything, but try to keep it off. Make a little raised platform with 2x4s laid flat and plywood to elevate the Kane mat above the substrate a bit. Sweep off the mat daily or as needed. The bottom of the Kane mat can rest directly on wood, as the bottom doesn't get hot at all.

The rest of your plans sound correct.

Carapace temp over 100 = bad, plastron temp 117 (ambient 80 + 37 over ambient from Kane mat) OK? I'm just trying to understand. I am sure that if I were to state this without addressing the disconnect, I would catch some feedback.

 

[Tom]

Carapace temp over 100 = bad, plastron temp 117 (ambient 80 + 37 over ambient from Kane mat) OK? I'm just trying to understand. I am sure that if I were to state this without addressing the disconnect, I would catch some feedback.

Carapace temp over 100 is fine. Go temp your tort's carapace next time it is basking in warm sunshine. Carapace temp over 100 under a CHE or heat lamp is likely going to slow-burn, and that is usually what happens as sulcatas grow and people don't switch heating strategies. We see it all the time.

The plastron does not get to 117 on a Kane mat. For one thing, it has built in safeties that kick it off at an internal temp of 108. The surface will be less than that, and much less than that if its in contact with a large tortoise plastron. The tortoise is on the mat absorbing the heat coming from the mat. In theory, in a perfect lab setting with just the right humidity, in a sealed chamber with no wind, and an ambient temp of 70 or less, the surface of the mat might get 37 degrees above ambient with nothing touching it. In a night box with a moving tortoise that just came in from the cold, and then pooped a big runny poop on the mat, and the wind is blowing outside, etc... It does not over heat or burn the tortoise.

I don't mind your questions. I can see the logic you are using. It makes sense. What you need to take into account is that I've been using dozens of these mats over a period of decades in all sorts of creative ways in the real world under real tortoises. I'm not reading info off of the package. I'm stating real world results and observations, and I've talked on the phone to the manufacturer about his products several times. Try what I'm telling you to do and check the temps yourself. Try it other ways, like putting a probe on the surface of the mat and setting it to 80 degrees. You will see for yourself. The point of me typing this all up over and over again over all these years, is to save the people reading from having to go through the long arduous process of trial and error that I went through to learn what I have learned and make the assertions that I make. If my way doesn't make sense to you, try it a different way and see what results you get. I'm not mad. We will all learn from your experience if you share it here. If the surface of that mat only gets to 80 in winter here in Southern CA, your tortoise will never get warm enough, and sickness is likely. Ask me how I know this.

 

[Wpagey]

Carapace temp over 100 is fine. Go temp your tort's carapace next time it is basking in warm sunshine. Carapace temp over 100 under a CHE or heat lamp is likely going to slow-burn, and that is usually what happens as sulcatas grow and people don't switch heating strategies. We see it all the time.

The plastron does not get to 117 on a Kane mat. For one thing, it has built in safeties that kick it off at an internal temp of 108. The surface will be less than that, and much less than that if its in contact with a large tortoise plastron. The tortoise is on the mat absorbing the heat coming from the mat. In theory, in a perfect lab setting with just the right humidity, in a sealed chamber with no wind, and an ambient temp of 70 or less, the surface of the mat might get 37 degrees above ambient with nothing touching it. In a night box with a moving tortoise that just came in from the cold, and then pooped a big runny poop on the mat, and the wind is blowing outside, etc... It does not over heat or burn the tortoise.

I don't mind your questions. I can see the logic you are using. It makes sense. What you need to take into account is that I've been using dozens of these mats over a period of decades in all sorts of creative ways in the real world under real tortoises. I'm not reading info off of the package. I'm stating real world results and observations, and I've talked on the phone to the manufacturer about his products several times. Try what I'm telling you to do and check the temps yourself. Try it other ways, like putting a probe on the surface of the mat and setting it to 80 degrees. You will see for yourself. The point of me typing this all up over and over again over all these years, is to save the people reading from having to go through the long arduous process of trial and error that I went through to learn what I have learned and make the assertions that I make. If my way doesn't make sense to you, try it a different way and see what results you get. I'm not mad. We will all learn from your experience if you share it here. If the surface of that mat only gets to 80 in winter here in Southern CA, your tortoise will never get warm enough, and sickness is likely. Ask me how I know this.

Thanks for taking the time to answer and explain further. I couldn't find on the Kane website anything about the shut off temp. This is what I like about this place--people sharing and learning about something they care about. BTW, love your "Screaming" logo, I'm more of a "Defender" man myself...

 

[Tom]

BTW, love your "Screaming" logo, I'm more of a "Defender" man myself...

I always loved that cover too, but my current avatar took on special meaning when I became a falconer 9 years ago. My hawk today stopped in mid air during a chase, turned 180, rotated 180, and turned himself into a literal vertical guided missile. I tell you it defied physics and that jack rabbit did not know what hit it! Some days in the field suck. Today didn't.

 

[AshleeSparling]

I purchased the 18x27in kane mat from Tyler at tortoise supply. I'm not sure when it will be here, but I'll keep everyone posted! Lewis and I really appreciate the information and advice that's been shared, I couldn't ask for a more helpful group of tortoise experts! Thank you

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Handsome guy!

 

[AshleeSparling]

I have purchased and set up the heat pad. I have the probe dangling in the middle of the enclosure in-between 1 heat lamp with 1 bulb each size, and the heat mat on the far side.
Well, the heat pad is heating up to 104° in the center. I tried turning all the lamps off even, still, 104° in the middle. I tried moving the probe, and turning the temperature down to 80. Around the edges, it's like 90°. So the temperature is not consistant across the matt. I don't know if it's broken, or if I'm doing something wrong?

Currently the matt is turned off, but he is still is getting some use out of it.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

While thermostat keeps heat map on, it will stay in its operating temperatures. Surface temperature of the mat should not be a concern - it's not that high to burn the plastron. And Lewis can get off it when it's too hot.

So you need to place thermostat probe far from heat sources, as has been advised and try to achieve desired temperatures in the box. If the box is not insulated or stands on the raw floor - you may consider adding insulation sheets to outside box walls and putting some beneath the box. Most important is to make the box top covered. Perhaps, you can put a greenhouse top over the box - it's not super efficient to keep heat but still better than just letting heat go out into the room. Or you can put large high plastic containers over ceiling windows and CHE fixtures.

 

[AshleeSparling]

While thermostat keeps heat map on, it will stay in its operating temperatures. Surface temperature of the mat should not be a concern - it's not that high to burn the plastron. And Lewis can get off it when it's too hot.

So you need to place thermostat probe far from heat sources, as has been advised and try to achieve desired temperatures in the box. If the box is not insulated or stands on the raw floor - you may consider adding insulation sheets to outside box walls and putting some beneath the box. Most important is to make the box top covered. Perhaps, you can put a greenhouse top over the box - it's not super efficient to keep heat but still better than just letting heat go out into the room. Or you can put large high plastic containers over ceiling windows and CHE fixtures.

The further away the probe gets from the heat sources is the hotter the basking spot gets. The basking spot is already at 94° and the rest of the box is at 80. I have sealed all the edges of the box with trex tape, and there are 2 layers of wood on the bottom of the box now. I will try moving the probe away from all the heat fixtures to the cool side, but what should I do if the basking spot gets up above 100° ? He doesn't have his heat pad on, because under the heat lamps the pad gets to 112°. But I will plug it back in and remove the lamps if it gets cold again

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Oh, I see... I still would not be concerned about mat surface temperature: when Lewis rests on it, he will absorb the lamps heat and the mat itself will not be too hot.

But your heating setup needs some revision.. I would replace twin domes with single wide domes (10 inch or more) or get back to mini oil radiator or heat panels ideas. With open meshed windows and narrow domes heat is intense and less effective as you lose much of it into the room. By moving heat sources inside the box and closing it you should get more predictable temperatures without dangerous hot spots.

 

[AshleeSparling]

Oh, I see... I still would not be concerned about mat surface temperature: when Lewis rests on it, he will absorb the lamps heat and the mat itself will not be too hot.

But your heating setup needs some revision.. I would replace twin domes with single wide domes (10 inch or more) or get back to mini oil radiator or heat panels ideas. With open meshed windows and narrow domes heat is intense and less effective as you lose much of it into the room. By moving heat sources inside the box and closing it you should get more predictable temperatures without dangerous hot spots.

I moved the probe to the middle, and it's maintaining a Good basking temperature of 95 and ambient temperature of 85. The far side is 81. I've gotten the humidity up and he seems to be doing good.