How to make things less boring

[Forgotten]

Hi All, I haven't actively participated here except to get cage requirements, but I thought today I will put it all out there and get some feed back.
Several years ago I adopted a grown Russian tortoise. Not because I wanted him, but because he was living on sharp white rocks with no water and a leaf of romain thrown in once in a while in a rabbit cage. I brought him home and after several of my own mistakes I learned enough from you all that he is now in a 4x8 tortoise table with coco coir and repti bark, dig bowl with a ramp to get up in it, water bowl, some drift wood, just heat on one side, heat and light on the other, hide places, some not sharp rocks, and a couple small plastic balls he moves around once in awhile. He gets a soak every morning and seems to enjoy it.
He wont eat anything but spring mix (with the spinich pulled out) and romain. I have gone to the Japanese market and gotten green things, I have grown things, I have pulled things from the yard that you say are good, I have gotten the dried plants from the place recommended here and he avoids all like the plague. I cut them small, I leave them big I stir them around but just spring mix. He wont eat anything if I put the calcium or vit D on it so I stopped. I know he should have it but he should also have food. I know this guy will out live me, I am no spring chicken, and it doesn't appear that anyone will take someone else's Russian tortoise so he is destined to stay here until I die. I feel like there is something i'm missing, and feel badly i can't do anything to make his life more enriched. You can't give him a friend but I put a couple fake turtles in there. The cat got in once for the heat and he chased her around until she left. I suspect that was a stress response. I live in a suburb of Chicago so we have a long cold spell that we can't go outside so he just sits in his cage. If there are any thoughts on any thing here I would sure like to here them. Thank you

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Take a look at this thread for indoor enclosure enrichment ideas:

Tortoise Enrichment!

Hi everyone as it’s about to start getting cooler my little guy Sumo will be spending significantly less time outside and I was wondering if anyone has any leopard tortoise enrichment ideas! So far I have spit his usual meals in small dishes around his enclosure and he always ends up visiting...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Tom]

Hi All, I haven't actively participated here except to get cage requirements, but I thought today I will put it all out there and get some feed back.
Several years ago I adopted a grown Russian tortoise. Not because I wanted him, but because he was living on sharp white rocks with no water and a leaf of romain thrown in once in a while in a rabbit cage. I brought him home and after several of my own mistakes I learned enough from you all that he is now in a 4x8 tortoise table with coco coir and repti bark, dig bowl with a ramp to get up in it, water bowl, some drift wood, just heat on one side, heat and light on the other, hide places, some not sharp rocks, and a couple small plastic balls he moves around once in awhile. He gets a soak every morning and seems to enjoy it.
He wont eat anything but spring mix (with the spinich pulled out) and romain. I have gone to the Japanese market and gotten green things, I have grown things, I have pulled things from the yard that you say are good, I have gotten the dried plants from the place recommended here and he avoids all like the plague. I cut them small, I leave them big I stir them around but just spring mix. He wont eat anything if I put the calcium or vit D on it so I stopped. I know he should have it but he should also have food. I know this guy will out live me, I am no spring chicken, and it doesn't appear that anyone will take someone else's Russian tortoise so he is destined to stay here until I die. I feel like there is something i'm missing, and feel badly i can't do anything to make his life more enriched. You can't give him a friend but I put a couple fake turtles in there. The cat got in once for the heat and he chased her around until she left. I suspect that was a stress response. I live in a suburb of Chicago so we have a long cold spell that we can't go outside so he just sits in his cage. If there are any thoughts on any thing here I would sure like to here them. Thank you

If the tortoise is refusing new foods it is because you are trying to go too fast. You are using too much too soon. Start with smaller amounts, mince up and spray the main greens with water, and mix in the new stuff. Imagine only one micro gram of the new stuff. Neither you nor the tortoise could even tell it as there. Two micrograms the next day. Still undetectable. Eventually, you will have one full gram of new stuff mixed into a 300 gram pile of food. That's a 1:300 ratio. Again, the tortoise won't even be able to detect that amount. If you start this process with 1:10 ratio, the tortoise will clearly see and smell the new stuff and be put off by it. Getting them to eat new foods is a very slow process. It can take weeks or months for each new food. Because they live so long, it is worth it to invest this time.

Likewise with the calcium. If you can visibly see or feel calcium on the food, you have used WAY too much. Think about how much of that calcium I could put on YOUR food until you could even detect it. To start with, there would be so little, that you wouldn't have any way of even knowing it was there. Now if I piled a heaping teaspoon on top of your steak, you'd be put off and disgusted by it, right?

Another principal is training. Your tortoise has trained you to give him what he wants. If he doesn't like what you are offering, all he has to do is wait a little while, and you will reward him with what he desires. Tortoises can go days and weeks with no food at all. Missing a meal or two is nothing to a tortoise. One of my favorite axioms goes like this: A hungry tortoise is not a picky tortoise. Make him hungry. Before trying to introduce a new food, feed a reduced ration for several days. Not one or two days, but at least 3 or 4 days. Don't starve him, but your tortoise should be pacing around and feeling antsy. Then introduce the pile of familiar food with the tiniest of tiny amount of new food minced and mixed in. It should be almost as if you've dropped the piece of lettuce on the floor and a tiny pice of "dust" (the new food...) stuck to it. It should not look like you took a handful of the minced old favorite food and rolled it around in the dirt and now it's all covered. Imagine you hadn't eaten much for days and I gave you a big helping of your favorite mashed potatoes and there were 3 tiny tiny flecks of parsley mixed in. You wouldn't even know the parsley was there. Even if you visibly saw the parsley, your brain would tell you that it's a piece of potato skin or pepper for seasoning. Now imagine I had you locked in a cell, you are losing weight and always hungry, and each day your helping of some delicious food that you love had one additional tiny fleck of some new food that you were unfamiliar with and would never eat on its own. The combination of desensitization and ravenous hunger would get you eating just about anything, would it not? Do not feel bad for your tortoise when there is a big pile of delicious nutritious food sitting right in front of it and it chooses to not eat. Just tell yourself: "Oh you don't want to eat today? Well you will be hungry tomorrow mister!"

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi All, I haven't actively participated here except to get cage requirements, but I thought today I will put it all out there and get some feed back.
Several years ago I adopted a grown Russian tortoise. Not because I wanted him, but because he was living on sharp white rocks with no water and a leaf of romain thrown in once in a while in a rabbit cage. I brought him home and after several of my own mistakes I learned enough from you all that he is now in a 4x8 tortoise table with coco coir and repti bark, dig bowl with a ramp to get up in it, water bowl, some drift wood, just heat on one side, heat and light on the other, hide places, some not sharp rocks, and a couple small plastic balls he moves around once in awhile. He gets a soak every morning and seems to enjoy it.
He wont eat anything but spring mix (with the spinich pulled out) and romain. I have gone to the Japanese market and gotten green things, I have grown things, I have pulled things from the yard that you say are good, I have gotten the dried plants from the place recommended here and he avoids all like the plague. I cut them small, I leave them big I stir them around but just spring mix. He wont eat anything if I put the calcium or vit D on it so I stopped. I know he should have it but he should also have food. I know this guy will out live me, I am no spring chicken, and it doesn't appear that anyone will take someone else's Russian tortoise so he is destined to stay here until I die. I feel like there is something i'm missing, and feel badly i can't do anything to make his life more enriched. You can't give him a friend but I put a couple fake turtles in there. The cat got in once for the heat and he chased her around until she left. I suspect that was a stress response. I live in a suburb of Chicago so we have a long cold spell that we can't go outside so he just sits in his cage. If there are any thoughts on any thing here I would sure like to here them. Thank you

As of other enrichments - make small changes, 1 by 1, once a month or in a couple of weeks, to his enclosure. Just some examples: add a cork bark flat, plant chia seeds (better use a buried plastic saucer or tray underneath so you can easily remove roots), add a potted plant or make some hills of substrate, release a bunch of isopods, hang a leaf of lettuce on a clip, swap places for water and food dishes, introduce a hamster wheel, water the enclosure with a watering can (not often, obviously), turn on some nature sounds to break the silence.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

turn on some nature sounds to break the silence

Haven't considered this one myself!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Haven't considered this one myself!

Tortoises don't hear well, so this might be hit or miss

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Tortoises don't hear well, so this might be hit or miss

Yeah, I guess it is why it has never occurred to me

 

[Forgotten]

If the tortoise is refusing new foods it is because you are trying to go too fast. You are using too much too soon. Start with smaller amounts, mince up and spray the main greens with water, and mix in the new stuff. Imagine only one micro gram of the new stuff. Neither you nor the tortoise could even tell it as there. Two micrograms the next day. Still undetectable. Eventually, you will have one full gram of new stuff mixed into a 300 gram pile of food. That's a 1:300 ratio. Again, the tortoise won't even be able to detect that amount. If you start this process with 1:10 ratio, the tortoise will clearly see and smell the new stuff and be put off by it. Getting them to eat new foods is a very slow process. It can take weeks or months for each new food. Because they live so long, it is worth it to invest this time.

Likewise with the calcium. If you can visibly see or feel calcium on the food, you have used WAY too much. Think about how much of that calcium I could put on YOUR food until you could even detect it. To start with, there would be so little, that you wouldn't have any way of even knowing it was there. Now if I piled a heaping teaspoon on top of your steak, you'd be put off and disgusted by it, right?

Another principal is training. Your tortoise has trained you to give him what he wants. If he doesn't like what you are offering, all he has to do is wait a little while, and you will reward him with what he desires. Tortoises can go days and weeks with no food at all. Missing a meal or two is nothing to a tortoise. One of my favorite axioms goes like this: A hungry tortoise is not a picky tortoise. Make him hungry. Before trying to introduce a new food, feed a reduced ration for several days. Not one or two days, but at least 3 or 4 days. Don't starve him, but your tortoise should be pacing around and feeling antsy. Then introduce the pile of familiar food with the tiniest of tiny amount of new food minced and mixed in. It should be almost as if you've dropped the piece of lettuce on the floor and a tiny pice of "dust" (the new food...) stuck to it. It should not look like you took a handful of the minced old favorite food and rolled it around in the dirt and now it's all covered. Imagine you hadn't eaten much for days and I gave you a big helping of your favorite mashed potatoes and there were 3 tiny tiny flecks of parsley mixed in. You wouldn't even know the parsley was there. Even if you visibly saw the parsley, your brain would tell you that it's a piece of potato skin or pepper for seasoning. Now imagine I had you locked in a cell, you are losing weight and always hungry, and each day your helping of some delicious food that you love had one additional tiny fleck of some new food that you were unfamiliar with and would never eat on its own. The combination of desensitization and ravenous hunger would get you eating just about anything, would it not? Do not feel bad for your tortoise when there is a big pile of delicious nutritious food sitting right in front of it and it chooses to not eat. Just tell yourself: "Oh you don't want to eat today? Well you will be hungry tomorrow mister!"

Thank you, I will certainly try all that. He doesn't seem terribly motivated by food and can really go awhile without eating. I was more worried about him not eating anything at all.

 

[Forgotten]

As of other enrichments - make small changes, 1 by 1, once a month or in a couple of weeks, to his enclosure. Just some examples: add a cork bark flat, plant chia seeds (better use a buried plastic saucer or tray underneath so you can easily remove roots), add a potted plant or make some hills of substrate, release a bunch of isopods, hang a leaf of lettuce on a clip, swap places for water and food dishes, introduce a hamster wheel, water the enclosure with a watering can (not often, obviously), turn on some nature sounds to break the silence.

I will try some of these things except I'm a little like Sheldon when it comes to sarcasm so do people really throw bugs in there indoor enclosure or were you kidding and if so does the tortoise eat them or are they just something he can watch? I guess that might entertain the cat also.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I will try some of these things except I'm a little like Sheldon when it comes to sarcasm so do people really throw bugs in there indoor enclosure or were you kidding and if so does the tortoise eat them or are they just something he can watch? I guess that might entertain the cat also.

Isopods (aka pill bugs, wood lice) are detrivores (feed mostly on decaying organics - leaf litter, rotting wood). In reptile enclosures they play role of a "cleanup crew", eating food and poop leftovers. So people add them on purpose along with springtails (also detrivores who especially helpful against mold).

Tortoise can spot isopods and try to catch and eat (odds are low, these guys are quick and usually stay hidden). If it manages to chew one or two - that's fine, isopods are high in calcium. I have a redfooted tortoise, she seeks isopods nests, digs them out and tries to catch (with a success, as far as I can tell).

Some of the common isopods look nice:
"zebras" - like more dry climate, more outgoing, not super prolific (that's a plus)
"powder oranges" - very fast and prolific, but prefer to come out in the dark
"dairy cows" - protein junkies (won't harm your tortoise!), grow rather large (up to 1 inch), prolific, can go out and about when population booms.

Often, you can easily get "wild" isopods instead of buying them.

 

[Renee_H]

Hi All, I haven't actively participated here except to get cage requirements, but I thought today I will put it all out there and get some feed back.
Several years ago I adopted a grown Russian tortoise. Not because I wanted him, but because he was living on sharp white rocks with no water and a leaf of romain thrown in once in a while in a rabbit cage. I brought him home and after several of my own mistakes I learned enough from you all that he is now in a 4x8 tortoise table with coco coir and repti bark, dig bowl with a ramp to get up in it, water bowl, some drift wood, just heat on one side, heat and light on the other, hide places, some not sharp rocks, and a couple small plastic balls he moves around once in awhile. He gets a soak every morning and seems to enjoy it.
He wont eat anything but spring mix (with the spinich pulled out) and romain. I have gone to the Japanese market and gotten green things, I have grown things, I have pulled things from the yard that you say are good, I have gotten the dried plants from the place recommended here and he avoids all like the plague. I cut them small, I leave them big I stir them around but just spring mix. He wont eat anything if I put the calcium or vit D on it so I stopped. I know he should have it but he should also have food. I know this guy will out live me, I am no spring chicken, and it doesn't appear that anyone will take someone else's Russian tortoise so he is destined to stay here until I die. I feel like there is something i'm missing, and feel badly i can't do anything to make his life more enriched. You can't give him a friend but I put a couple fake turtles in there. The cat got in once for the heat and he chased her around until she left. I suspect that was a stress response. I live in a suburb of Chicago so we have a long cold spell that we can't go outside so he just sits in his cage. If there are any thoughts on any thing here I would sure like to here them. Thank you

I mean I live in Sunny SoCal and even with our decent weather my tort comes out to eat, drink, walk and poop (in that order) and goes right back inside her heated house all winter long. She doesn’t seem to care about being bored since she chooses to ignore her enclosure and spends 23hrs a day in a dark box I wouldn’t over think, it sounds like he has a lot of enrichment already but maybe just move things around now and then, shift the visual barriers so he has to learn to walk a different course to get to his food. As for food I radically changed my tortoises diet. She came to me last summer and had only had grocery store food. I didn’t start small. I just constantly offered what she should have and in no time she figured it out and eats great. I will still give her grocery store greens 3days a week for my own convenience I mix them in with soaked mazuri or those dried toppers you mentioned. I have a leopard and the bulk of her diet is cactus pads. She’s 25+ yrs old and had never had one until I got her. Now she eats 3-4# of it 3-4 days a week plus a ton of grass(she’d also never seen or been fed grass) and I give her various leaves like grape rose and moringa. Wow this is making me sound SO mean but I mean she didn’t starve herself. Lol

 

[TammyJ]

Can you post some pictures of your tortoise and the enclosure?

 

[zolasmum]

Tortoises don't hear well, so this might be hit or miss

Zola is quite sensitive to sounds that might relate to him in any way - if he hears me in the kitchen,two rooms away, he will make scrabbling and rattling noises to remind me of his existence,even if he has been asleep up until then.
Angie