humidity during hibernation

[ursula]

Good morning group!

I have a question regarding humidity during hibernation (this has been discussed before years ago but related to refrigerated hibernation). I have 12 tortoises, 9 hermanni and 3 graeca. They just moved from Italy to Michigan (US) and this is their first winter here. They are hibernating in a heated garage kept around 8C (40-50F). The humidity in the garage is about 40-50% but the soil feels dry at the touch. They are in large plastic bins with a layered substrate of organic potting soil (bottom) with sphagnum and then orchid bark on top. Some have buried themselves others are on the surface (as they used to do also in Italy where they living in a backyard free to do their own thing).

Should I be spraying them periodically with some water? In Rome where they used to live, winter is the rainy season so, in the wild, they and the soil around them would get periodically wet (I'd say it would rain once a week on average).

Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

@Tom should be able to help you.

 

[Tom]

Good morning group!

I have a question regarding humidity during hibernation (this has been discussed before years ago but related to refrigerated hibernation). I have 12 tortoises, 9 hermanni and 3 graeca. They just moved from Italy to Michigan (US) and this is their first winter here. They are hibernating in a heated garage kept around 8C (40-50F). The humidity in the garage is about 40-50% but the soil feels dry at the touch. They are in large plastic bins with a layered substrate of organic potting soil (bottom) with sphagnum and then orchid bark on top. Some have buried themselves others are on the surface (as they used to do also in Italy where they living in a backyard free to do their own thing).

Should I be spraying them periodically with some water? In Rome where they used to live, winter is the rainy season so, in the wild, they and the soil around them would get periodically wet (I'd say it would rain once a week on average).

Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks!

Your Italian climate is very similar to our Southern CA climate here. You must be having a rough time in Michigan in winter. I sure would not like that. What a transition!

Soil is made from composted yard waste. Could be oleander trimmings. Could be azaleas. Could be lawn grass recently treated with insecticide, weed killer or fungicide. There is no way to know what is in that bag. There are all sorts of other weird ingredients added in and it can change as much and as often as the makers want. The contents of that bag are intended to grow plants in a pot or a garden. The makers and sellers do not intend for small animals to be living in it or on it in small enclosures. The contents of that bag might be toxic or dangerous, and the "Organic" moniker means very little. Oleander and rattle snake venom are both 100% organic and natural. Don't allow a tortoise access to bought-in-a-bag soil. If you make your own soil and know 100% of the ingredients and are sure all those ingredients are safe, then you can use it, but its still messy and not a good way to go. If you bought it at a store, there could be anything in that bag. Don't gamble with your tortoise's life. It is fine to use toxin free soils to grow plants to feed our tortoises, and in potted plants inside tortoise enclosures, but the tortoise should not have access to the soil, and certainly should not be living on it, or burying themselves in it. P.S. Perlite is a tortoise killer, and perlite is in many, if not most, potting soil mixes. Be careful.

Peat is too acidic and can burn the carapace. I've seen it happen. I wouldn't use that either.

40-45 should be good, but I think 50 is getting too warm.

Finally to your question: I like it to be lightly damp. Not sopping wet, not dry, but just a little dampness in my hibernacula substrate. I don't spray because that only causes evaporative cooling ad doesn't keep the substrate damp at all. It only wets the surface temporarily. I dump water into the substrate. Usually along the sides and not directly near the tortoise. How much water and how often varies from enclosure to enclosure, and seasonally too. I go by feel.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Finally to your question: I like it to be lightly damp. Not sopping wet, not dry, but just a little dampness in my hibernacula substrate. I don't spray because that only causes evaporative cooling ad doesn't keep the substrate damp at all. It only wets the surface temporarily. I dump water into the substrate. Usually along the sides and not directly near the tortoise. How much water and how often varies from enclosure to enclosure, and seasonally too. I go by feel.

Curious, do you measure the humidity in your hibernacula?

 

[ursula]

Your Italian climate is very similar to our Southern CA climate here. You must be having a rough time in Michigan in winter. I sure would not like that. What a transition!

Soil is made from composted yard waste. Could be oleander trimmings. Could be azaleas. Could be lawn grass recently treated with insecticide, weed killer or fungicide. There is no way to know what is in that bag. There are all sorts of other weird ingredients added in and it can change as much and as often as the makers want. The contents of that bag are intended to grow plants in a pot or a garden. The makers and sellers do not intend for small animals to be living in it or on it in small enclosures. The contents of that bag might be toxic or dangerous, and the "Organic" moniker means very little. Oleander and rattle snake venom are both 100% organic and natural. Don't allow a tortoise access to bought-in-a-bag soil. If you make your own soil and know 100% of the ingredients and are sure all those ingredients are safe, then you can use it, but its still messy and not a good way to go. If you bought it at a store, there could be anything in that bag. Don't gamble with your tortoise's life. It is fine to use toxin free soils to grow plants to feed our tortoises, and in potted plants inside tortoise enclosures, but the tortoise should not have access to the soil, and certainly should not be living on it, or burying themselves in it. P.S. Perlite is a tortoise killer, and perlite is in many, if not most, potting soil mixes. Be careful.

Peat is too acidic and can burn the carapace. I've seen it happen. I wouldn't use that either.

40-45 should be good, but I think 50 is getting too warm.

Finally to your question: I like it to be lightly damp. Not sopping wet, not dry, but just a little dampness in my hibernacula substrate. I don't spray because that only causes evaporative cooling ad doesn't keep the substrate damp at all. It only wets the surface temporarily. I dump water into the substrate. Usually along the sides and not directly near the tortoise. How much water and how often varies from enclosure to enclosure, and seasonally too. I go by feel.

Thank you for the reply. I researched the soil extensively before using it, there is no perlite in it but I did not think about the oleander trimmings. Not sure what to do now, they are asleep in it so I cannot change it without waking them up and it's too early for them to be awake.

What would you suggest as a good substrate if soil and sphagnum are not good? I can use all orchid bark but I read that that can be a problem too because it may be too dusty (the one I bought does not seem to be but I'm not sleeping in it).

Thanks for the suggestion about the humidity, I'll water the soil a bit to increase the humidity. I cannot wait for March to arrive to be able to wake them and see that they are all ok!

 

[ursula]

Curious, do you measure the humidity in your hibernacula?

yes, I have hygrometer and temperature sensors around their area.

 

[Tom]

Curious, do you measure the humidity in your hibernacula?

I do not any more, but I used to.

 

[Tom]

What would you suggest as a good substrate if soil and sphagnum are not good? I can use all orchid bark but I read that that can be a problem too because it may be too dusty (the one I bought does not seem to be but I'm not sleeping in it).

I prefer orchid bark for most applications. It is not dusty if kept properly damp.

Damp coco coir that is hand packed works well too.